03-01-2021, 06:08 AM
mickey Wrote:Keep in mind as of model year 2020 the CB 1100 had been produced every year since 2010 in/for markets other than the US. That's 11 model years. It has outlived a lot of other Honda models (including the original SOHC CB 750 which ran 10 model years ' 69-78) so in that respect, it has to be considered a success for Honda.
Depends on how many units they produced and sold. If they produced very few units in those other markets, and struggled to sell them, then, well, no.
I suppose that if you set the bar low enough, anything can be labeled a success.
Even despite the excess heft, had Honda merely eclipsed the magical, all-important 100 hp ad-copy number and priced the bike at $9,999 instead of $12,199, they would have quickly sold every 2017 ES they could have produced. Instead, they were met with this constant refrain in nearly every review, whether it was from an official moto-magazine reviewer or in most every comments section: "Very nice bike. Beautiful, in fact, with class-leading fit and finish. A bit underpowered, though. It's not necessarily slow, per se, but it sure isn't fast either. Needs more revs...more excitement. Nice bike, like I said, but hard to justify at that price. Once you're into twelve-grand territory, there are so many better-performing options out there. Someone will really have to want this specific Honda retro formula in order to cough up more than twelve G's for this machine.
"Kind of a shame, really. They made such a beautiful motorcycle, but it just misses the mark. They're still leaving too much on the table. Come on, Honda. Step it up. We know you can do it."
And they never did. The RS appeared to be the answer, until it was learned that the RS represented no real performance upgrades. No weight savings, no increase in power or torque, and, most damning of all, an even higher price tag.
Clearly, Honda is content with the CB's niche status, worldwide.
The U.S. market?
Not even on Honda's radar. They couldn't care less.
bioman, Tev62 mentioned the Triumph as his example, and it's a good one. With the Bonneville line Triumph retained the traditional retro look while modernizing the powerplant with liquid cooling and other performance upgrades. The new T120 is a substantial improvement over its predecessor, and certainly compared to vintage Bonnevilles.
That's also what Kawasaki managed with their Z900RS, with its quasi-retro vibe.
Honda?
Compare the performance of the current CB1100 to that of, say, the early '80s CB900 Super Sport. More to the point, compare the performance of the current CB1100 to that of every other Inline Four liter bike sold today, whether by Honda or anyone else.
Therein lies the problem. Forty years later, excepting the handling and emissions, Honda went backwards while everyone else moved the chains forward. The CB1000R is not playing the same game as the CB1100. It plays in a different sandbox altogether, and even in its own sandbox the CB1000R is let down by its meager performance and high price tag, relative to its direct competition.
It's a rather unfortunate recurring theme with Honda.
Depends on how many units they produced and sold. If they produced very few units in those other markets, and struggled to sell them, then, well, no.
I suppose that if you set the bar low enough, anything can be labeled a success.
Even despite the excess heft, had Honda merely eclipsed the magical, all-important 100 hp ad-copy number and priced the bike at $9,999 instead of $12,199, they would have quickly sold every 2017 ES they could have produced. Instead, they were met with this constant refrain in nearly every review, whether it was from an official moto-magazine reviewer or in most every comments section: "Very nice bike. Beautiful, in fact, with class-leading fit and finish. A bit underpowered, though. It's not necessarily slow, per se, but it sure isn't fast either. Needs more revs...more excitement. Nice bike, like I said, but hard to justify at that price. Once you're into twelve-grand territory, there are so many better-performing options out there. Someone will really have to want this specific Honda retro formula in order to cough up more than twelve G's for this machine.
"Kind of a shame, really. They made such a beautiful motorcycle, but it just misses the mark. They're still leaving too much on the table. Come on, Honda. Step it up. We know you can do it."
And they never did. The RS appeared to be the answer, until it was learned that the RS represented no real performance upgrades. No weight savings, no increase in power or torque, and, most damning of all, an even higher price tag.
Clearly, Honda is content with the CB's niche status, worldwide.
The U.S. market?
Not even on Honda's radar. They couldn't care less.
bioman, Tev62 mentioned the Triumph as his example, and it's a good one. With the Bonneville line Triumph retained the traditional retro look while modernizing the powerplant with liquid cooling and other performance upgrades. The new T120 is a substantial improvement over its predecessor, and certainly compared to vintage Bonnevilles.
That's also what Kawasaki managed with their Z900RS, with its quasi-retro vibe.
Honda?
Compare the performance of the current CB1100 to that of, say, the early '80s CB900 Super Sport. More to the point, compare the performance of the current CB1100 to that of every other Inline Four liter bike sold today, whether by Honda or anyone else.
Therein lies the problem. Forty years later, excepting the handling and emissions, Honda went backwards while everyone else moved the chains forward. The CB1000R is not playing the same game as the CB1100. It plays in a different sandbox altogether, and even in its own sandbox the CB1000R is let down by its meager performance and high price tag, relative to its direct competition.
It's a rather unfortunate recurring theme with Honda.