How hard to brake to activate ABS

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Mick,

Braking hard will not activate an ABS system. Only impending wheel lock up will activate it and depending on the road surface that could be very light braking. The system is constantly comparing front and rear wheel speeds and rate of rotational change. Braking really hard doesn't come into play. If you were driving on an ice covered road and applied very light braking your ABS would activate the moment one of your two wheels started to slide.

My CB doesn't have ABS but Charley's Ducati does and on a dry paved road I can brake to the point of lifting the rear wheel off the ground without the ABS coming into play. But on a loose dirt road it comes on under light braking as soon as I lock a wheel. It took several tries for me to get up the nerve to try to lock the front wheel on a dirt road at about 15 mph. I had both feet off the pegs to try to catch myself if I started to go down. But I finally did it and the ABS worked as advertised. Very notisable pulsing and the front tire would not lock. Same with the rear. Unless you lock a wheel which is really hard to do on dry pavement your ABS will not activate. And FWIW, if it did you would have hit that deer as ABS works by releasing the brake at very short intervals (several times a second) which increases stopping distance.

Many drivers and riders think that ABS will shorten stopping distance but that's not the case and it's not what ABS is for. The function of ABS it to prevent the loss of control that occurs when a wheel locks. Cheers.

Chip

Well-said.

[ChipBeck_imp]

I would have liked to seen Chip, riding Charley's Ducati with legs splayed like outriggers thinking, " OK...I'm going to do this! " lol

Mick,

That is EXACTLY how it was. The first several times I chickened out and my brain just wouldn't let me squeeze that lever hard enough. It was a head trip. All of us former dirt bikers know how fast you go down when you lock the front tire. Locking the back just causes it to start sliding to the side and that's not so bad but locking the front causes an almost instant crash so it's really hard to do it intentionally. And I did have my legs sticking out and down like outriggers but I'm not sure I was strong or quick enough to keep me from going down. Once I finally got the front to lock up and activate the system I did it several more times with increasing confidence.

I can say that if I had done this before I bought my CB1100 I would have sought out a CB11 with ABS. I've been a believer in ABS and traction control on cars for some time. I now think it's a great idea on motorcycles as well. Perhaps even more valuable on a bike. Cheers.

Chip

[the Ferret]

yes sometimes the heart has courage but the heads a bit apprehensive, especially when it knows the possible outcome might hurt, due to past experience.

I'd love to ride an outrigger equipped ABS bike on a slippery surface "knowing" I'm not going to crash. This could be fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ_UkAFW6cA

I don't understand this spokesperson but she is easy on the eyes and the message is clear when you watch the scoots in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I would have liked to seen Chip, riding Charley's Ducati with legs splayed like outriggers thinking, " OK...I'm going to do this! " lol

Mick,

That is EXACTLY how it was. The first several times I chickened out and my brain just wouldn't let me squeeze that lever hard enough. It was a head trip. All of us former dirt bikers know how fast you go down when you lock the front tire. Locking the back just causes it to start sliding to the side and that's not so bad but locking the front causes an almost instant crash so it's really hard to do it intentionally. And I did have my legs sticking out and down like outriggers but I'm not sure I was strong or quick enough to keep me from going down. Once I finally got the front to lock up and activate the system I did it several more times with increasing confidence.

I can say that if I had done this before I bought my CB1100 I would have sought out a CB11 with ABS. I've been a believer in ABS and traction control on cars for some time. I now think it's a great idea on motorcycles as well. Perhaps even more valuable on a bike. Cheers.

Chip

Mick,

That is EXACTLY how it was. The first several times I chickened out and my brain just wouldn't let me squeeze that lever hard enough. It was a head trip. All of us former dirt bikers know how fast you go down when you lock the front tire. Locking the back just causes it to start sliding to the side and that's not so bad but locking the front causes an almost instant crash so it's really hard to do it intentionally. And I did have my legs sticking out and down like outriggers but I'm not sure I was strong or quick enough to keep me from going down. Once I finally got the front to lock up and activate the system I did it several more times with increasing confidence.

I can say that if I had done this before I bought my CB1100 I would have sought out a CB11 with ABS. I've been a believer in ABS and traction control on cars for some time. I now think it's a great idea on motorcycles as well. Perhaps even more valuable on a bike. Cheers.

Chip Given the number of riders buying a big, heavy bike for a first ride, I sure agree with that.

Being a long-time former dirt-biker I can vouch for the fact that it teaches one excellent control and reactions using the brakes.

I will say this: there is no real issue skidding the front tire on pavement as long as the motorcycle is straight up and down and you release the brake at the first sign of skidding.

In fact it is entirely possible to leave a straight skid mark with the front tire, just as with the rear, doing this.

It's much harder to do now because the tires have so much grip. But I recall back in the late 1980's when grip was lousy that I could lock the front and leave a black mark a couple of feet long; this was particularly easy with a bike with a long wheelbase.

With the grip we have these days it really takes some uneven pavement where a bit of daylight comes between the front tire and the pavement in order to get a squeal from the front.

[BestStandard_imp]

But it should be easy to squeal the rear tire and I can't do it on my DLX. The ABS on the DLX doesn't have the linked brakes like the '13 ABS, it now uses the same front and rear calipers as the standard models. So doing a rear brake only panic stop should make some tire noise, especially with the stock tire. I know some complained early on that the rear brake on their DLX seemed week and they found they weren't bled properly. But my rear brake works as well as other bikes I've owned, and jamming just the rear brake pedal produces a smooth pulse free stop. I don't have a shop manual yet, does it shed any light on how the linked '13 and non-linked '14 systems are supposed to work?

[Ulvetanna_imp]

But it should be easy to squeal the rear tire and I can't do it on my DLX. The ABS on the DLX doesn't have the linked brakes like the '13 ABS, it now uses the same front and rear calipers as the standard models. So doing a rear brake only panic stop should make some tire noise, especially with the stock tire. I know some complained early on that the rear brake on their DLX seemed week and they found they weren't bled properly. But my rear brake works as well as other bikes I've owned, and jamming just the rear brake pedal produces a smooth pulse free stop. I don't have a shop manual yet, does it shed any light on how the linked '13 and non-linked '14 systems are supposed to work?

You have ABS, so it should not skid. I cannot comment on the amount of pulsing since the systems are different, and I don't have ABS; maybe some other members have noticed something.

If someone complained the rear brake was weak and had an ABS-equipped bike, maybe they expected it to skid and the ABS prevented that.

You're right about the shop manuals, they should explain the systems in detail. I don't think either have a brake-by-wire system.

[Lord Popgun]

Most of the complaining, whining (a lot by me) was on the '13 bikes, non-abs. At least 4 of us had the problem of air in the lines. One was dealer fixed under warranty, I had to bleed/flush mine as the dealer wouldn't. Ferret never did anything with his and then traded it. Don't know about the others.

Seems like there weren't any complaints with the '14s, but there could be some.

[the Ferret]

I certainly feel the rear brake on my 14 could be better, but it's nowhere near the useless lump that was on my 13. If you've ever ridden a bike with a strong rear brake you know instantly when you ride a bike for the first time whether it's brakes are good or weak.

Btw I rode my sons FJ-09 last Sunday. Worst rear brake I have ever felt on a motorcycle. Not only was it weak, but pedal travel was insanely long, like point your toes at the ground long travel, with little effect.

Funny the two strongest rear brakes I have felt were the tiny rear brakes on our Majesty scooters and the rear brake on a T rex scooter I was given as a loaner while they worked on my ST 1300 a few weeks ago. Both operated by left hand. STellar brakes that really comtributed to stopping the vehicle.

I know, I know, you dont have to tell me again, percentage wise the front brakes do most of the braking, but whether the rear brakes supply 20%, or 10% or 1 % why give up any percentage of total braking ability. For me a good strong, solid feeling rear brake is a joy to have and makes riding fast and controlled so much easier.

I've read from internet experts, that racers don't use rear brakes, that's not true. I have been within arms distance of Valention Rossi's bike and it had a very nice rear disc set up. I'm betting it was plenty strong. I have also saved quotes from interviews I have read with MotoGP racers, about them using their rear brakes to set up certain corners or back their way into turns. If the pros use rear brakes it's probably ok for us mortals to as well.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I certainly feel the rear brake on my 14 could be better, but it's nowhere near the useless lump that was on my 13. If you've ever ridden a bike with a strong rear brake you know instantly when you ride a bike for the first time whether it's brakes are good or weak.

Btw I rode my sons FJ-09 last Sunday. Worst rear brake I have ever felt on a motorcycle. Not only was it weak, but pedal travel was insanely long, like point your toes at the ground long travel, with little effect.

Funny the two strongest rear brakes I have felt were the tiny rear brakes on our Majesty scooters and the rear brake on a T rex scooter I was given as a loaner while they worked on my ST 1300 a few weeks ago. Both operated by left hand. STellar brakes that really comtributed to stopping the vehicle.

I know, I know, you dont have to tell me again, percentage wise the front brakes do most of the braking, but whether the rear brakes supply 20%, or 10% or 1 % why give up any percentage of total braking ability. For me a good strong, solid feeling rear brake is a joy to have and makes riding fast and controlled so much easier.

I've read from internet experts, that racers don't use rear brakes, that's not true. I have been within arms distance of Valention Rossi's bike and it had a very nice rear disc set up. I'm betting it was plenty strong. I have also saved quotes from interviews I have read with MotoGP racers, about them using their rear brakes to set up certain corners or back their way into turns. If the pros use rear brakes it's probably ok for us mortals to as well.

I certainly never recommended never using the rear brake; I use the rear brake constantly. I probably apply it just as often as the front brake, but of course in proportion as you mentioned. I have 2013 and never experienced any issues with the rear brake; I've always held the CB1100's brakes to be exceptional.

And you bet racers use the rear, all the time.

Some have the thumb brake setup (Mick Doohan, for example) to make it possible to trail the rear brake using the left thumb as it can be quite awkward to activate the rear brake while cornering and clambering around on the bike. If I remember, Doohan had some issues with his foot, but some riders just have it installed for ease of operation.

What you don't see on racebikes is any form of ABS. Lots of traction control, though.

Regarding the FJ-09, I don't know about the whole -09 series, except that many of the components were low-spec. I understand they are decent bikes if one doesn't expect world-class performance.

[use2b_imp]

Thanks guys for all this great info , vid's and stories.
my only bike to have ABS was my BMW R1200R and I loved the linked system and used only the front brake. sold the bike because my wife rides with me and the tank would crush my " stuff " every time I would brake on that bike. being old school I like a bench seat where she rides at the same height as I do so the CB750's were the 2 up bike.

I am soaking up as much knowledge as possible about my CB1100 even though It will take at least 2 weeks for it to arrive.