DCT w/Clutch. Have you cake and eat it too.

[activedirt_imp]

In late August, I spent three days at a dual-sport rally in Hood River, OR. I rode my F800GS. It has a Rekluse clutch.

There were over 100 riders in attendance and fifteen, or so, GPS-tracked dual-sport rides to choose from. When we go to these events, there are four or five of us that ride together. We hardly ever allow unknown riders to join. The group becomes too large, variables increase, and the idea of strangers "showing off" in our midst is less than appealing. We also have the right combination of medics, mechanics, tools, first-aid and communications. Everyone in the group, except me, is an excellent rider. A 911 dispatcher(old desert racer), a gentleman that owns two Honda stores and a very large, but secret, trophy room, an MSF instructor instructor (he teaches instructors and also teaches U.S. Army spcial forces). And the others are equally talented. I have to beg each time to be included.

Each one of them now rides an Africa Twin DCT. Not a "mannie" in the group. Each one came off a BMW GS. You can't wipe the smiles off their faces! Finger-shifting in "sport" mode is wonderful. Your feet stay on the pegs, you're not fumbling with your left foot to locate the shifter, and the engine compression is right there. Same thing exiting corners. And not a single complaint about slow-speed maneuvering. None. It's a very steep learning curve to acclimate to the throttle. As someone else mentioned, rear-braking simultaneously is beneficial sometimes. Rear braking is a lost art, if ever acquired, by quite a few riders, IMHO.

So why don't "I" have an AT-DCT? I asked the sales mgr to give me a quote. Knocking $1,000 off the MSRP, I would get $3,800 for my mint 2013 CB1100, $4,000 for my 2005 ST-ABS with only 30,000 miles and nary a scratch, I'd have to give them all the $4,750 I just got for selling my Volvo XC70, and come up with another $2,000 cash.

Uh...that ain't gonna happen!!! Two motorcycles, a Volvo, and $2,000 cash for a bike that doesn't have any of the necessary farkles (starting with tires) to be ridden off-road!?

I'm not depressed knowing I'll be on the BMW for a long time. Familiarity breeds familiarity. Which is a wonderful thing off-road. But I really like the DCT!! My favorite dual-sport bike ever.

Thanks Olyrider for your post. Having read what you have written reminds me of comments that I have seen on Africa Twin forums. These comments center around the value of the DCT for rally or off-road travel. Your first hand experience with the Hood River Rally gives insight into why the DCT helps in such an environment. The ability to stay on the pegs being one of the advantages. I have done just a bit of off-road riding, mostly over gravel roads that go over some of the mountains here in Virginia. I need to find a rally like the one you participate in Oregon, it sounds like a blast.

My desire for a clutch lever is more to enhance my road riding experience. In a reply to this post the Ferret mentioned that he uses the clutch lever in several situations on the road. I'm basically much same way. I'm sure that as I gain more experience with the 'auto' modes of the DCT that I will get better, but for now I miss the finesse of slipping the clutch. It makes for a smoother more refined experience. But no bike can be all things to all people.

Thanks again for your post.

[tinboatcapt_imp]

I have ridden the CTX700 with DCT. As much as I appreciate the innovation and engineering of Honda's products, DCT is not for me.

I guess I have reached the 'old dagnabit' stage of life where change is hard. The vast majority of auto's now come standard with an auto trans so I can understand the appeal of an auto trans bike. It might even be nice on a sidecar rig. I could probably get used to that eventually. I found the shifter paddle thingies just awkward and imprecise. I just missed the 'bump the clutch and snick' into each gear change of Honda's transmissions.
jim

[alprider]

well well peoples....

DCT switches still in the best moment of torque/powermoment.....you have no power interruption ! ..the acceleration line is veryyy linear so no wonder you feel no clutch- bum ...hehehe .. and so : with a traditional clutch and minimum same enginepower, you are much slower away /much slower acceleration....!

DCT switches already in a moment that you self never think already to switche just its possible that you have still best power on place for the moment !

and btw.
the CTX has only 48hp but a lot torque....this engine is designed for driving with torque and not rpm


a auto modus has no eyes so its possible that he switchs in a not suitable situation but for that you have also the manual modus or jus in the automodus you can always intervene ......

just you must learn driving with this new technology / rethink

btw too by a car with automatic you can always intervene specaly for use the enginebrake example : for downhill or you want let smoke your brakepads...
a lot peoples thinks: automatic; i musst nothing more thinking/doing......just scooter-like throttle and brake and over...yes yes bcos this is DCT no automatic vehicle..it has a transmission...

and if you drive a AT of VFR with basic more power is DCT much finer by the switches by low speed...the bandwidth is larger for one gear....


and you can only self switch if are the rmp after that not to low or high.....


and i guess a clutchlever you need more by offroad as on the street but what we have heard by offroad its great this DCT



in german we have a saying: What the farmer does not know, he does not eat

[alprider]

the new generation of DCT with this 3 sportmodes...specal with the strongest sportmode example : you drive downhill and close suddenly the throttle bcose a curve so its switchs down...enginebrake and after you have power for again acceleration....bcos this its great too for offroad

[rotor]

well well peoples....

DCT switches still in the best moment of torque/powermoment.....you have no power interruption ! ..the acceleration line is veryyy linear so no wonder you feel no clutch- bum ...hehehe .. and so : with a traditional clutch and minimum same enginepower, you are much slower away /much slower acceleration....!

DCT switches already in a moment that you self never think already to switche just its possible that you have still best power on place for the moment !

and btw.
the CTX has only 48hp but a lot torque....this engine is designed for driving with torque and not rpm


a auto modus has no eyes so its possible that he switchs in a not suitable situation but for that you have also the manual modus or jus in the automodus you can always intervene ......

just you must learn driving with this new technology / rethink

btw too by a car with automatic you can always intervene specaly for use the enginebrake example : for downhill or you want let smoke your brakepads...
a lot peoples thinks: automatic; i musst nothing more thinking/doing......just scooter-like throttle and brake and over...yes yes bcos this is DCT no automatic vehicle..it has a transmission...

and if you drive a AT of VFR with basic more power is DCT much finer by the switches by low speed...the bandwidth is larger for one gear....


and you can only self switch if are the rmp after that not to low or high.....


and i guess a clutchlever you need more by offroad as on the street but what we have heard by offroad its great this DCT



in german we have a saying: What the farmer does not know, he does not eat

I am all for learning new ways to do things when that new way solves a problem that I have identified and I am in search of a solution for.

I have no problem whatsoever with clutch and gearbox.

An automatic transmission on a motorcycle simply reminds me of million times in my long past where someone trying to get me to buy something did that by trying to convince me I have a problem that I don't even know I have, and it's one that he can solve for me.

[alprider]

or consider it generally so, only the clutch movement is automated and you say wich speed you want .....the whole rest is at most nice comfortable additional....smileee...

[Django]

Not my cup of tea.

I really enjoy the smooth gearbox and letting the clutch go. It's just an important part of my experience of riding. I prefer a simple but brilliant motorcycle without all those bells and whistles.

Wheels, smooth but powerful engine, manual gearbox, EFI and ABS. Full control. That's it.

But everybody to his own...

[alprider]

Not my cup of tea.

I really enjoy the smooth gearbox and letting the clutch go. It's just an important part of my experience of riding. I prefer a simple but brilliant motorcycle without all those bells and whistles.

Wheels, smooth but powerful engine, manual gearbox, EFI and ABS. Full control. That's it.

But everybody to his own...

thats it...

[Marc_imp]

Dear Activedirt,

I completely share your opinion on your original post. I was thrilled to read that someone else shares my opinion on the clutch issue. I just recently purchased an Africa Twin DCT and really miss the clutch for the slower speed maneuvering and keeping the bike super smooth when coasting to slow down. I know that I will really miss it when I have a passenger on board to keep the ride as smooth as possible.

While I appreciate the benefits of the DCT, that's why I bought one, I wonder if the Honda engineers forgot that a clutch is not just for changing gears. A DCT with a supplemental left hand clutch would be the perfect bike in my opinion.