Official disclaimer on the Suzuki website, referring to the new 2017 GSX-R 1000:
*Depending on road surface conditions, such as wet, loose, or uneven roads, braking distance for an ABS-equipped vehicle may be longer than for a vehicle not equipped with ABS. ABS cannot prevent wheel skidding caused by braking while cornering. Please drive carefully and do not overly rely on ABS.
The new 2017 Gixxer 1000 has what some think is the most advanced electronics package available on any production superbike.
Just sayin'.
Of course you're correct. Again. ABS is really one of the dumbest technologies ever developed. Lucky for me that I don't have it but, based on this warning, I urge all CB1100 ABS riders sell their bikes immediately or at least improve your braking skills. We are mostly new riders, after all.
I wonder, Ulvetanna, if you are, as my father might have said, trailing your coat? If so, I'm going to tread on it.
What is your point? Of course Suzuki and other manufacturers will include strongly worded disclaimers with their ABS-equipped bikes. They'd be crazy not to. No reasonable person will argue that ABS can save anyone who has to brake hard in every situation. Even if the circumstances are right for ABS to operate at its best, it may well be that the punter simply doesn't have room to stop and ... well ... whammo. Good night nurse. The disclaimer will make it harder for some clown to waste a court's time arguing that the manufacturer implied ABS would save them.
Could I outperform ABS in optimal circumstances? No way. Would I have it on the bike if I could? Too bloody right, as we say in the antipodes. If it gives me the tiniest edge in an emergency, I'm for it. That doesn't mean I think it will make me bulletproof. Nor do I think it means I shouldn't practice breaking techniques. I have ABS on my car and I don't hurtle round the place slamming in the brakes at the last minute confident that it will magically stop me. But it has pulled me up at least once in circumstances where, without it, I would not have been able to stop in the same distance.
Continuing to spruik the inference that ABS is poor technology is a little like asserting Pratchett's Diskworld is round. Buy bikes without it if you want. But hang on to them because I'm willing to bet it will not be long before it's mandated for motorcycles in any number of countries. Even the US of A. Why? Because it will give a few more suckers an even break (pun intended) and that's not altogether a bad thing.
If you can stop your bike better without ABS than with it, full marks to you. I'm willing to bet you're an exception rather than the rule. Meanwhile, let the rest of us admire your extraordinary skill and take what comfort we can from improved technology.
We all know riding a motorcycle is dangerous. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that ABS braking systems has saved way more people than not.
Obviously, disclaimers are just lawyer speak for companies that want/need to cover their behinds from some overly litigious person that decides to blame the manufacturer because they wiped out while grabbing a handful of front brake in the wrong situation.
See portions of an article below from the New York Times. You can substitute the word 'motorcycle' for the words 'football' or 'game' and it would appear to be a story about motorcycle helmets.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Warning Labels on Helmets Combat Injury and Liability'
Even by the alarmist standards of many product warnings, the labels on the backs of the football helmets are bracingly blunt: “No helmet system can protect you from serious brain and/or neck injuries including paralysis or death. To avoid these risks, do not engage in the sport of football.”
Schutt Sports has plastered these words on its helmets for about a decade. To keep up with the times, the warning also pops up on the home page of the company’s Web site, and a scannable label that links to information about head injuries provided by the Centers for Disease Control is affixed to the helmet.
“The simplest thing we can do is remind people that the game has inherent risks,” said Robert Erb, Schutt’s chief executive. “It’s an ethical, moral and legal issue. People need to know these things.”
As concerns about the long-term effects of playing football grow — and lawsuits against leagues, coaches and equipment makers mount — helmets are coming under renewed scrutiny, particularly during the summer, when teams begin preparing for the new season and leagues, coaches and parents buy new helmets or refurbish older ones.
(11-16-2016, 06:22 PM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder, Ulvetanna, if you are, as my father might have said, trailing your coat? If so, I'm going to tread on it.
What is your point? Of course Suzuki and other manufacturers will include strongly worded disclaimers with their ABS-equipped bikes. They'd be crazy not to. No reasonable person will argue that ABS can save anyone who has to brake hard in every situation. Even if the circumstances are right for ABS to operate at its best, it may well be that the punter simply doesn't have room to stop and ... well ... whammo. Good night nurse. The disclaimer will make it harder for some clown to waste a court's time arguing that the manufacturer implied ABS would save them.
Could I outperform ABS in optimal circumstances? No way. Would I have it on the bike if I could? Too bloody right, as we say in the antipodes. If it gives me the tiniest edge in an emergency, I'm for it. That doesn't mean I think it will make me bulletproof. Nor do I think it means I shouldn't practice breaking techniques. I have ABS on my car and I don't hurtle round the place slamming in the brakes at the last minute confident that it will magically stop me. But it has pulled me up at least once in circumstances where, without it, I would not have been able to stop in the same distance.
Continuing to spruik the inference that ABS is poor technology is a little like asserting Pratchett's Diskworld is round. Buy bikes without it if you want. But hang on to them because I'm willing to bet it will not be long before it's mandated for motorcycles in any number of countries. Even the US of A. Why? Because it will give a few more suckers an even break (pun intended) and that's not altogether a bad thing.
If you can stop your bike better without ABS than with it, full marks to you. I'm willing to bet you're an exception rather than the rule. Meanwhile, let the rest of us admire your extraordinary skill and take what comfort we can from improved technology.
Well said Cormanus. I agree 100%.
Says the same thing in your Honda CB 1100 owners manual... lawyer speak for we can't save your butt in every instance
but consider this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWOeD9FDgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3MfLcJLaCs
I love it that you defend riding 45 mph between stopped or slow moving distracted drivers in cars/trucks and eschew ABS. That cracks me up. I do understand you are trying to encourage people to learn how to brake properly and not rely on technology, but there is no reason not to do both, and for those unwilling to learn emergency braking techniques that the technology makes riding a motorcycle a lot safer for them.
Understand that according to studies, the average motorcyclist rides about 1900 miles a year. It's hard to maintain skills when you are riding so infrequently. Technology such as ABS will most benefit those riders.
(11-16-2016, 10:38 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Says the same thing in your Honda CB 1100 owners manual... lawyer speak for we can't save your butt in every instance
but consider this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWOeD9FDgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3MfLcJLaCs
I love it that you defend riding 45 mph between stopped or slow moving distracted drivers in cars/trucks and eschew ABS. That cracks me up. I do understand you are trying to encourage people to learn how to brake properly and not rely on technology, but there is no reason not to do both, and for those unwilling to learn emergency braking techniques that the technology makes riding a motorcycle a lot safer for them.
Understand that according to studies, the average motorcyclist rides about 1900 miles a year. It's hard to maintain skills when you are riding so infrequently. Technology such as ABS will most benefit those riders.
yep nail meet hammer
(11-16-2016, 10:38 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Says the same thing in your Honda CB 1100 owners manual... lawyer speak for we can't save your butt in every instance
but consider this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWOeD9FDgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3MfLcJLaCs
I love it that you defend riding 45 mph between stopped or slow moving distracted drivers in cars/trucks and eschew ABS. That cracks me up. I do understand you are trying to encourage people to learn how to brake properly and not rely on technology, but there is no reason not to do both, and for those unwilling to learn emergency braking techniques that the technology makes riding a motorcycle a lot safer for them.
Understand that according to studies, the average motorcyclist rides about 1900 miles a year. It's hard to maintain skills when you are riding so infrequently. Technology such as ABS will most benefit those riders.
Ferret, I do not defend "riding 45 mph between stopped or slow moving distracted drivers in cars/trucks" nor do I "eschew ABS".
With respect to the first criticism, the California Highway Patrol advocates lane-sharing at those speeds, and it has recently been made legal in California. If you don't like that, take it up with the CHP.
Regarding ABS, most recently, I posted an anecdote about an incident on the freeway last year regarding ABS and braking, wherein I clearly recommended that most riders should get it.
Here is what I posted, verbatim, just a few days ago:
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=9744&pid=154667#pid154667]I think everyone should get it if they are the least bit in doubt of their braking skills.
Better to have it and not need it than the other way around.
That's just one place I've advocated for ABS. There are other threads and posts as well.
You've got over 3,000 people who lurk and rarely if ever post. They most likely get my point; that ABS is good to have, but don't expect it to be a miracle-worker.
Cormanus, post up that popcorn eating smiley again please
(11-16-2016, 06:22 PM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder, Ulvetanna, if you are, as my father might have said, trailing your coat? If so, I'm going to tread on it.
What is your point? Of course Suzuki and other manufacturers will include strongly worded disclaimers with their ABS-equipped bikes. They'd be crazy not to. No reasonable person will argue that ABS can save anyone who has to brake hard in every situation. Even if the circumstances are right for ABS to operate at its best, it may well be that the punter simply doesn't have room to stop and ... well ... whammo. Good night nurse. The disclaimer will make it harder for some clown to waste a court's time arguing that the manufacturer implied ABS would save them.
Could I outperform ABS in optimal circumstances? No way. Would I have it on the bike if I could? Too bloody right, as we say in the antipodes. If it gives me the tiniest edge in an emergency, I'm for it. That doesn't mean I think it will make me bulletproof. Nor do I think it means I shouldn't practice breaking techniques. I have ABS on my car and I don't hurtle round the place slamming in the brakes at the last minute confident that it will magically stop me. But it has pulled me up at least once in circumstances where, without it, I would not have been able to stop in the same distance.
Continuing to spruik the inference that ABS is poor technology is a little like asserting Pratchett's Diskworld is round. Buy bikes without it if you want. But hang on to them because I'm willing to bet it will not be long before it's mandated for motorcycles in any number of countries. Even the US of A. Why? Because it will give a few more suckers an even break (pun intended) and that's not altogether a bad thing.
If you can stop your bike better without ABS than with it, full marks to you. I'm willing to bet you're an exception rather than the rule. Meanwhile, let the rest of us admire your extraordinary skill and take what comfort we can from improved technology.
I just wonder if it would ever be possible to stop with the high-flown rhetoric, ten-Euro words, sarcasm, and obscure Aussie slang:
I wonder, Ulvetanna, if you are, as my father might have said, trailing your coat? If so, I'm going to tread on it.
Was that necessary? No, but it makes the speaker sound like a distinguished barrister, replete with wig and gown, arguing before a New South Wales court, ridiculing the defendant, much to the pleasure of the spectators.
Like The ferret, you misspeak when you state I continue to "spruik the inference that ABS is poor technology" and my response to The ferret has the proof of this.
It just seems to me that, as both of you are moderators, you all could be a bit more moderate and actually either recall my position on ABS (which I've posted several times) or do a quick search to make sure you are not "standing on your foot." (I say this in all good humor).
(11-17-2016, 02:22 AM)Lord Popgun_imp Wrote: [ -> ]Cormanus, post up that popcorn eating smiley again please
Whaddya mean, the show's over, darn it, move along now.
Until the next thread on oil, ABS, or RLETs, that is.
