What motorcycles do young people want?

[misterprofessionality]

Interestingly enough a "ninja" is really easy and ideal for a new rider to handle. Its just that a lot of times the uninitiated see a zx6r and call that a ninja. If they can be persuaded to buy the much more mellow ninja 650 or ninja 400, though theyre way better off, and those bikes are ideal beginner bikes to boot. A z400 is surprisingly cheap with all the tech it has.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

the Husqvarna vitpilen 401...

my goodness that tail is...uh...um....ah heck, it's just plain...

...gly

you know, like something got cut off.

Youll get no argument from me there. I never could warm up to the looks of that particular one, but they're consistently sold out in the new rider market...so much so that they're hard as heck to find in stock.

Were going to be seeing a lot more bikes with "unique" anesthetics like that coming round the bend in the next decade, especially as electric bikes become more practical. In fact, the rise of electric bikes is probably going to be the thing that gets more young people riding, for one simple reason: no clutch.

We all think of that as anathema to a good time, but for a lot of young new riders its the biggest barrier. They just dont want to learn a manual transmission. Theyre intimidated.

That is indeed true for many would-be riders and is not a profound statement. This has been true for many, many decades.

Another way of looking at electric bikes is as an evolution. An analogy is the transition from a steam locomotive to diesel. Steam engines required significantly more effort to operate effectively compared to diesel. It would seem intimidating to the uninitiated, but no longer relevant in the era of diesel locomotives. I see automobiles and moto-bikes along the same evolution.

the Husqvarna vitpilen 401...

my goodness that tail is...uh...um....ah heck, it's just plain...

...gly

you know, like something got cut off.

Youll get no argument from me there. I never could warm up to the looks of that particular one, but they're consistently sold out in the new rider market...so much so that they're hard as heck to find in stock.

Were going to be seeing a lot more bikes with "unique" anesthetics like that coming round the bend in the next decade, especially as electric bikes become more practical. In fact, the rise of electric bikes is probably going to be the thing that gets more young people riding, for one simple reason: no clutch.

We all think of that as anathema to a good time, but for a lot of young new riders its the biggest barrier. They just dont want to learn a manual transmission. Theyre intimidated.

That's a great point about the clutch and shifting. Close to 98% of new cars in the US are automatics. If a CVT trans or other automatic is ever successfully adapted to a 250-750 size bike, it would be a huge selling point. DCTs are close, but expensive and not so smooth.

Have you ridden a late model DCT?

They are not close. They surpass traditional clutch configurations, are more efficient, and are incredibly smooth. This is why they are used in professional racing. Sadly, they are a transition implementation since eventually electric will rule the day and dino-burning bikes become Sunday morning paraded antiques to gawk over with donuts and coffee in hand.

 

[the Ferret]

GO what professional racing are DCTs used in? They are not permitted in MotoGP

 

[Roper_imp]

Maybe GO was thinking about Formula 1.

 

[Bheezy27403_imp]

I thought "open wheel" race cars had paddle shifters?

 

[pekingduck]

pekingduck ' Wrote: If a CVT trans or other automatic is ever successfully adapted to a 250-750 size bike, it would be a huge selling point. DCTs are close, but expensive and not so smooth.
You hit the nail on the head. Honda had two low displacement dct bikes that sold horribly because they had no cool factor, cost way too much, and came in ADV and Cruiser formats, both of which young people have no interest in.

They have a cvt in the super cub but thats just too small for the price.

Honda seems to be the only ones interested in making smaller clutchless bikes though.

You still have to shift the Super Cub and CT125 have automatic centrifugal clutches, and also clutch disengagement by the lever as you shift, so you still shift with your foot, but no hand clutch co-ordination needed. Halfway to automatic though.

 

[franov_imp]

I'll talk to you as a 24-year-old guy: at least here, the most desired and best selling motorcycle till 18 years old is a super-motard, starting with 2 strokes 125cc at 16y.o. (and 50cc at 14y.o.) just to buy a 450 4 stroke motard at the age of 18: ktm, tm, Suzukis etc really sell like hot cakes here, but also Japanese nakeds such as the mt-07 are great sellers for young people.
in general, there's a really good preference for sports bike.

as I think also elsewhere, there's still an important minority who's interested (as me) in vintage motorcycles (I own from my age of 14y.o. a 1968 vespa 50r) and which are very fond of triumphs (who also sell a lot, especially in the under 30s), while the cb1100 sold like 200 pieces from 2017 till 2020, a huge flop there, maybe cause pedigree and brand history counts more than substance.

still, the 2 best selling (BY FAR) motorcycles there, in general, are the BMW GS and Honda Africa Twin: just to highlight how fewer younger motorcyclists are on the road

 

[pekingduck]

the Husqvarna vitpilen 401...

my goodness that tail is...uh...um....ah heck, it's just plain...

...gly

you know, like something got cut off.

Youll get no argument from me there. I never could warm up to the looks of that particular one, but they're consistently sold out in the new rider market...so much so that they're hard as heck to find in stock.

Were going to be seeing a lot more bikes with "unique" anesthetics like that coming round the bend in the next decade, especially as electric bikes become more practical. In fact, the rise of electric bikes is probably going to be the thing that gets more young people riding, for one simple reason: no clutch.

We all think of that as anathema to a good time, but for a lot of young new riders its the biggest barrier. They just dont want to learn a manual transmission. Theyre intimidated.

That is indeed true for many would-be riders and is not a profound statement. This has been true for many, many decades.

Another way of looking at electric bikes is as an evolution. An analogy is the transition from a steam locomotive to diesel. Steam engines required significantly more effort to operate effectively compared to diesel. It would seem intimidating to the uninitiated, but no longer relevant in the era of diesel locomotives. I see automobiles and moto-bikes along the same evolution.

the Husqvarna vitpilen 401...

my goodness that tail is...uh...um....ah heck, it's just plain...

...gly

you know, like something got cut off.

Youll get no argument from me there. I never could warm up to the looks of that particular one, but they're consistently sold out in the new rider market...so much so that they're hard as heck to find in stock.

Were going to be seeing a lot more bikes with "unique" anesthetics like that coming round the bend in the next decade, especially as electric bikes become more practical. In fact, the rise of electric bikes is probably going to be the thing that gets more young people riding, for one simple reason: no clutch.

We all think of that as anathema to a good time, but for a lot of young new riders its the biggest barrier. They just dont want to learn a manual transmission. Theyre intimidated.

That's a great point about the clutch and shifting. Close to 98% of new cars in the US are automatics. If a CVT trans or other automatic is ever successfully adapted to a 250-750 size bike, it would be a huge selling point. DCTs are close, but expensive and not so smooth.

Have you ridden a late model DCT?

They are not close. They surpass traditional clutch configurations, are more efficient, and are incredibly smooth. This is why they are used in professional racing. Sadly, they are a transition implementation since eventually electric will rule the day and dino-burning bikes become Sunday morning paraded antiques to gawk over with donuts and coffee in hand.

Have you ridden a late model DCT?

They are not close. They surpass traditional clutch configurations, are more efficient, and are incredibly smooth. This is why they are used in professional racing. Sadly, they are a transition implementation since eventually electric will rule the day and dino-burning bikes become Sunday morning paraded antiques to gawk over with donuts and coffee in hand. Some DCT car transmissions are smooth, others, like Ford's Powershi*t were not so good. I've ridden all the DCTs, the last in the Africa Twin, and maybe they have gotten better, but not DN-01 w/torque convertor or CVT smooth.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

the Husqvarna vitpilen 401...

my goodness that tail is...uh...um....ah heck, it's just plain...

...gly

you know, like something got cut off.

Youll get no argument from me there. I never could warm up to the looks of that particular one, but they're consistently sold out in the new rider market...so much so that they're hard as heck to find in stock.

Were going to be seeing a lot more bikes with "unique" anesthetics like that coming round the bend in the next decade, especially as electric bikes become more practical. In fact, the rise of electric bikes is probably going to be the thing that gets more young people riding, for one simple reason: no clutch.

We all think of that as anathema to a good time, but for a lot of young new riders its the biggest barrier. They just dont want to learn a manual transmission. Theyre intimidated.

That is indeed true for many would-be riders and is not a profound statement. This has been true for many, many decades.

Another way of looking at electric bikes is as an evolution. An analogy is the transition from a steam locomotive to diesel. Steam engines required significantly more effort to operate effectively compared to diesel. It would seem intimidating to the uninitiated, but no longer relevant in the era of diesel locomotives. I see automobiles and moto-bikes along the same evolution.

the Husqvarna vitpilen 401...

my goodness that tail is...uh...um....ah heck, it's just plain...

...gly

you know, like something got cut off.

Youll get no argument from me there. I never could warm up to the looks of that particular one, but they're consistently sold out in the new rider market...so much so that they're hard as heck to find in stock.

Were going to be seeing a lot more bikes with "unique" anesthetics like that coming round the bend in the next decade, especially as electric bikes become more practical. In fact, the rise of electric bikes is probably going to be the thing that gets more young people riding, for one simple reason: no clutch.

We all think of that as anathema to a good time, but for a lot of young new riders its the biggest barrier. They just dont want to learn a manual transmission. Theyre intimidated.

That's a great point about the clutch and shifting. Close to 98% of new cars in the US are automatics. If a CVT trans or other automatic is ever successfully adapted to a 250-750 size bike, it would be a huge selling point. DCTs are close, but expensive and not so smooth.

Have you ridden a late model DCT?

They are not close. They surpass traditional clutch configurations, are more efficient, and are incredibly smooth. This is why they are used in professional racing. Sadly, they are a transition implementation since eventually electric will rule the day and dino-burning bikes become Sunday morning paraded antiques to gawk over with donuts and coffee in hand.

Have you ridden a late model DCT?

They are not close. They surpass traditional clutch configurations, are more efficient, and are incredibly smooth. This is why they are used in professional racing. Sadly, they are a transition implementation since eventually electric will rule the day and dino-burning bikes become Sunday morning paraded antiques to gawk over with donuts and coffee in hand. Some DCT car transmissions are smooth, others, like Ford's Powershi*t were not so good. I've ridden all the DCTs, the last in the Africa Twin, and maybe they have gotten better, but not DN-01 w/torque convertor or CVT smooth.

Have you ridden a late model DCT?

They are not close. They surpass traditional clutch configurations, are more efficient, and are incredibly smooth. This is why they are used in professional racing. Sadly, they are a transition implementation since eventually electric will rule the day and dino-burning bikes become Sunday morning paraded antiques to gawk over with donuts and coffee in hand. Some DCT car transmissions are smooth, others, like Ford's Powershi*t were not so good. I've ridden all the DCTs, the last in the Africa Twin, and maybe they have gotten better, but not DN-01 w/torque convertor or CVT smooth.
Heh, ya - agreed ... the Ford Focus DCT is a poor implementation.

I avoided referencing CVT and classic torque converter implementations.

RE Not MotoGP: Yes, I did slip into cage-land. Thanks for the correction Ferret.

 

[peterbaron]

Shifting gears by DCT is not everything, as most of you may think....how it engages from N into the 1st and when initially acc, always bothers me also, when cold and warm....

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Shifting gears by DCT is not everything, as most of you may think....how it engages from N into the 1st and when initially acc, always bothers me also, when cold and warm....

Have no idea what you are saying PB.

 

[bioman_imp]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/image...A&usqp=CAU

701

Sorry I can't figure out how to get this pic on here but I believe this version, while not ideal, has a better "tush" than the 401.

As far as young folks and bikes, I just don't see it. I employ about thirty young folks. Mostly in the 20-25 year old range. No talk of bikes unless they are trying to have a conversation with me about them. And I can tell you they know nothing about bikes. In fact one called my CBR300R a "hog". They just have no interest in anything that is not dealing with their phones and instafacetweetchat. It's sad really.

That is also my experience. It seems that slowly but surely motorcycles are becoming something from the past, like those early bicycles with a HUGE front wheel and tiny rear wheel, or like sidecars, or like steam engines.

Young people are certainly interested in electric bicycles and scooters. Convenient, pleasant, silent transport vehicles that are relatively light-weight, easy to ride, clean, affordable and will need very little maintenance. Motorcycles do not fall in this category. Young people consider them too unpredictable, too old-fashioned, too noisy, smelly, and too difficult to ride ("Gears?? What are those?").

Mind you, this is only the case in North America and (in a lesser degree) Europe. In Asia, motorcycles are very much alive and kicking.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/image...A&usqp=CAU

701

Sorry I can't figure out how to get this pic on here but I believe this version, while not ideal, has a better "tush" than the 401.

As far as young folks and bikes, I just don't see it. I employ about thirty young folks. Mostly in the 20-25 year old range. No talk of bikes unless they are trying to have a conversation with me about them. And I can tell you they know nothing about bikes. In fact one called my CBR300R a "hog". They just have no interest in anything that is not dealing with their phones and instafacetweetchat. It's sad really.

That is also my experience. It seems that slowly but surely motorcycles are becoming something from the past, like those early bicycles with a HUGE front wheel and tiny rear wheel, or like sidecars, or like steam engines.

Young people are certainly interested in electric bicycles and scooters. Convenient, pleasant, silent transport vehicles that are relatively light-weight, easy to ride, clean, affordable and will need very little maintenance. Motorcycles do not fall in this category. Young people consider them too unpredictable, too old-fashioned, too noisy, smelly, and too difficult to ride ("Gears?? What are those?").

Mind you, this is only the case in North America and (in a lesser degree) Europe. In Asia, motorcycles are very much alive and kicking.

That is also my experience. It seems that slowly but surely motorcycles are becoming something from the past, like those early bicycles with a HUGE front wheel and tiny rear wheel, or like sidecars, or like steam engines.

Young people are certainly interested in electric bicycles and scooters. Convenient, pleasant, silent transport vehicles that are relatively light-weight, easy to ride, clean, affordable and will need very little maintenance. Motorcycles do not fall in this category. Young people consider them too unpredictable, too old-fashioned, too noisy, smelly, and too difficult to ride ("Gears?? What are those?").

Mind you, this is only the case in North America and (in a lesser degree) Europe. In Asia, motorcycles are very much alive and kicking.
Yeah, and classic motorcycles (vehicles in general) suck money and time in regards to maintenance. The new generation, and even many seniors today won't tolerate that. Sure, it is almost 2021. Really not unreasonable. I mean, there are better ways to spend time then doing maintenance. I think Elon Musk wishes to spend the last of his time dying on Mars.

 

[michael1954]

When I was trying to buy the 2017 CB1100EX last year from a young man in Ohio, about 28, he did not like the EX, but was selling his dad's bike. He rode a Ducati 800 I think. He did like it when I told him I had a Kawasaki Z900RS. He felt his generation was into naked, fast and to me transformer like bikes. He really did not want a Sport Bike or Crotch Rocket. He said they were too fast and uncomfortable.
I guess this is why the sad demise of the CB1100 has come about in this country.