Viva Las Vegas!

[the Ferret]

So that would mean it WOULD have to go in and have afrs adjusted for rpms above 7000? Or would the reflash take care of that.

Sorry for the questions, just trying to understand this stuff.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

MG, can you post a screen shot of the fuel ratios programmed into your PCV?
If they did not give you one, just download the software to your PC,start the app, load the map, take screen shot and post.
As seen before, this is the stock one.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...aHALuTBEK4/w891-h772-no/2013-11-01_154008.jpg

Or I guess if they post your map to the website we could do the same.
Actually, I don't even see the PCV maps for our CB1100 on their website any more, unless I am missing them??
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_ex/Downloads/Default.aspx

I wasn't given a copy of the fuel map and it's not available yet online. I was told that it will become one of the Dynojet maps publicly available for download but I don't know when that will happen. I asked for copies of the run files and expect to receive them via email some time next week. If the fuel map appears in the files I receive, I'll post it here. Otherwise, once the map goes online, I'll go in and get it and share it here. The 2013 map is still up. It can be found here: http://www.powercommander.com/powercomma...08&yr=2013

So that would mean it WOULD have to go in and have afrs adjusted for rpms above 7000? Or would the reflash take care of that.

Sorry for the questions, just trying to understand this stuff.

That's an interesting question. I suspect, but am not certain, that no further adjustments would be necessary. What the 2013 map tells us is that the AFR was appropriate/ideal at the higher rpm's (above 7K). I imagine that would hold true for 7.5K or 8K as well. I was told that with my bike, there was little room for improvement at the top end. It was in the lower rev ranges that the fuel needed enrichment. An ECU reflash would not, by itself, take care of the AFRs. The reflash is simply utilizing a pre-existing/developed fuel map which overwrites the stock map.

Thinking this through, it seems that what would need to happen, would be for someone who has had their ECU reflashed, removing the rev limiter (and having a currently available fuel map downloaded onto the ECU), subsequently have a custom dyno tune performed. This newly developed map would then show us any differences in a post-reflash fuel map.

To benefit from the map, it would either have to be developed at Dynojet Research then be posted online or you would have to otherwise get a copy of the fuel map that you could use to manually change your own PC-V to the appropriate numbers. One or the other is bound to happen eventually. Any volunteers?

Thanks for the reports, MG. I appreciate the effort and I'm sure that I will refer back to this as my bike and I adjust to my full Yosh exhaust without the reflash or PCV. On my last ride I noticed a disturbing lag (of sorts) during more aggressive throttle ups. I plan on discussing this with Service Guy Fred a little later today, but with the snow and the cold, it is unlikely that I will be able to settle this issue until spring. I have a feeling that I will be revisiting this thread and a few others as I work through this issue so thanks again for providing this resource.

You're very welcome. Let us know what you figure out regarding the acceleration issue. The lag you describe sounds like it could be a flat spot in your fuel curve where, at a certain rpm, the engine runs too lean - basically starving the engine for a moment. I'm sure there are other possibilities but lately I have AFRs on the brain and that's all I can come up with. Haha.

 

[emptysea]

Actually, I think it's my clutch, but we won't know until it thaws out a bit here. Might be a fuel issue, but the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward a mechanical issue. I'll let you know once I know.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Actually, I think it's my clutch, but we won't know until it thaws out a bit here. Might be a fuel issue, but the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward a mechanical issue. I'll let you know once I know.

Now that you write that, I've read similar complaints on I believe the VFR forum where it turned out to be the clutch. If that's the case, it should be covered by the warranty, right?

 

[emptysea]

Probably not, but will be at least partially covered by my VIP maintain ends deal that I purchased. Generally parts that wear...brakes, clutches, chains, are not covered by warranty. But, all this is premature talk until I have a proper diagnosis of the issue completed.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Since when are we averse to premature talk, guesswork or prognostication?! It's what makes the world go round! Or, at least the forum.

It just seems a tad early for your clutch to be wearing out. That's why I thought it might be a warranty issue. Have you been practicing power wheelies and not telling us? I want to see the video!

 

[emptysea]

It seems a bit early for the clutch to me, too, but I do have 14k on it and I'm probably not the gentlest guy on a tranny.

(You're welcome for the set-up)

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

It seems a bit early for the clutch to me, too, but I do have 14k on it and I'm probably not the gentlest guy on a tranny.

(You're welcome for the set-up)

Obviously, you've CENSORED and CENSORED!!! It reminds me of one time in college when CENSORED and then, waking up, I turned to her and said CENSORED last night?! We were married soon thereafter.

Yeah, it's probably your clutch...

 

[emptysea]

:rofl: and now I'm heading off to a planning meeting (aka party) to discuss our summer bike trip to the Ozarks. I think I'm going to break the news about the clutch to my wife at the meeting--she won't yell at me as much in front of other people.

:beerchug:

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

That there ladies and gentlemen, is wisdom and experience. That's a party I wish I could attend!

 

[HikerToo_imp]

MG, the map is in your PCV, hook the device up to your PC via USB cable, run their software and it will find the PCV, you can than display the settings , export the settings to a file or edit the settings, that's how they do it too. Or when they post the map, it can be downloaded and displayed in the same software.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Thanks HikerToo. I've downloaded the software and will give it a shot. They didn't give me a USB cable but I understand it's a standard type of USB. I probably have one around here somewhere. It's a cold, rainy, lazy Sunday here. I'll be putting on my bar ends and downloading the fuel map!

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

I was able to download the map and it's very interesting.



In the ranges where I spend most of my time (2500 to 5750 rpm and 40% to 80% throttle), the AFR was enriched. Below and above that, the AFR was leaned out; in particular, above 6,000 rpm and between 40% and 80% throttle. I compared it to your (HikerToo) map and it's very different throughout. I'm just going to trust that they knew what they were doing and will continue to monitor the ride through my built-in, state of the art, backside dyno.

 

[HikerToo_imp]

Hmm....interesting.
That 40% column where it drops to -1 at 3750 and 4000 from a +5 and +4 sticks out...considering the 60% column next to it is at 3 & 4 at same RPM....

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

I accept that I still have so much to learn about all of this (and so much more)! Makes life interesting, right? Just wait until the maintenance schedule gets more complicated than oil changes and chain adjustments.

 

[CIP57_imp]

I was able to download the map and it's very interesting.



In the ranges where I spend most of my time (2500 to 5750 rpm and 40% to 80% throttle), the AFR was enriched. Below and above that, the AFR was leaned out; in particular, above 6,000 rpm and between 40% and 80% throttle. I compared it to your (HikerToo) map and it's very different throughout. I'm just going to trust that they knew what they were doing and will continue to monitor the ride through my built-in, state of the art, backside dyno.

These value's are off of a stock ECU, if I had to guess Honda added fuel to the 2014 Model either through air intake, exhaust management or timing and was able to richen the value's and still meet EPA requirements.
I can't find Gregs stock A/F ratio's for his bike but I memory serves correctly his 2013 was running much leaner than your 2014 stock.
Both maps where done by the same company.

Just a theory!!!!

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Interesting theory. And, so far, it's the best one running! I wonder though, would Honda engineers have adjusted the AFR absent complaints from 2013 owners? I'm only assuming they didn't receive complaints because everyone here with the 2013 model seems very happy with the bike's performance. Watching those videos on how the bike was designed, it does appear that tremendous thought and meticulous planning went into the project. Would this perfectionism, if it's fair to call it that, result in refinements to the AFRs for the 2014 model? Maybe.

Anyone have a Honda engineer's email address? Because I have Google Translate and I'm not afraid to use it!

 

[the Ferret]

I think its safe to say there will be differences in any two objects mass produced, no matter how close the tolerances. Some are bound to run better, or run cooler, or shift better, or produce more horsepower than others and vice versa.

I have heard, but can't confirm, that magazine editors get the best running models to test.

 

[CIP57_imp]

I think its possible given the fact that a extra gear was added they tweaked the ECU as well on the new model. Different motors within the same model will have different tolerances but the manufacturer has no way of knowing and does not tweak each bike for best performance, therefore all the ECU come with the same A/F ratio dialed in.

 

[HikerToo_imp]

Maybe DynoJet would know why they are so different? Between 2013 and 14
Also, I forget, did you have a full exhaust on your 2014? If so, maybe ECU was compensating for it, so their PCV had to cut back a little on fuel mixture?