VIBRATION - deciding too much; and living with it.

[Django]

Then I would suggest changing sprockets to alter your gear ratio. If you are a highway speeds rider, go with a 19 tooth sprocket in the front and a lesser tooth sprocket in the rear. The early cb1110's were geared too short, for sport.

Can you tell more about this topic? I'd be interested in ratio, teeth count and purpose.

Can you tell more about this topic? I'd be interested in ratio, teeth count and purpose.
According to the parts listing, the 2013 is 18T in the front and 39T in the rear.

Same in Europe:

CB1100AD EUROPE 2013 SC65 front: 18T rear: 39T

Hey Cormanus, could you tell about the 2010 Australian model? At least there is another parts No.:

Europe 2013 front sprocket 18T = 23801MAZ000
Australian 2010 front sprocket, ?T = 23801MEJ000

I wonder, if there was really a ratio difference for the earlier CB1100.

 

[nhawk7504_imp]

"Sekiya:
On the hardware side, phased valve timing gives the engine its characteristic feel around the 3,000 rpm range. How did you create the engine's personality?

Minami:
Basically, straight-four engines run smooth as long as all four pistons move the same way. My initial thoughts were, to give the engine a deep rumble, we'd have to change the movement a bit.
We ended up shifting the valve timing of cylinders 1 and 2, compared to cylinders 3 and 4, and by continuing to change the gap, found the right combustion out-of-sync feel."

"Korogi:
At around 3,000 rpm, the four-cylinder engine vibrates strongly like a two-cylinder engine, and has a solid rev feel through the chain to the rear tire, giving a strong sense of traction, and finally a purposeful sound.
'Deep rumble' expresses the feel, through the five senses, of an air-cooled four-cylinder engine."

"Sugiura:
Of all the ideas we had for the engine's 'character,' we went ahead with phased valve timing. The engine is based on the CB1300 Super Four, and in the initial prototyping stages, we took its engine and simply modified it to be air-cooled. We had the prototype tested by a number of people, and the majority told us that it didn't feel like an air-cooled engine, that it felt the same as the 1300SF."

"Fukanaga:
I think the bike is as good as it is, because we had people in the factory see, ride, and understand the level of the engine's potential and 'feel' that we wanted.
Once the factory understood us, they started giving us ideas on how to improve the quality of the mass-produced model. This was what happened for the 2014 model."

 

[mininsx_imp]

I've worn gel-padded gloves for years, ever since I got a sportbike and my hands went numb from the weight of my upper body on my hands. Olympia makes a bunch of different types of gel-padded gloves. I wear the model number 734 in the summer.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...ycle+gloves&sprefix=olympia+motor,aps,303

 

[ChipBeck_imp]

Gentlemen,

I know anything is possible with enough time and money but would it be possible, for a reasonable sum of money, to do away with the staggered valve timing and make the CB11 motor smoother? What would be involved?

Chip

 

[Lord Popgun]

A new cam at least?

 

[AndyHe_imp]

If there was an aftermarket cam that was identical to stock except that it did away with the staggered valve timing (and I would assume there would be some reprogramming of the engine control system also), I'd be up for that. There is no motorcycle that is "too smooth" to me and though I love my CB1100, I would love it even more if it were smoother between 3k and 4k rpms.

 

[VTR1000F_imp]

Sometimes life runs around in circles: http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4456

this is perhaps a homework for some egine tuner company or a cam maker...Web? Engle? Whatever. There´s a question if engine management (injection and ignition) reflect the stock cam or if "straight cam" would be the cure without other changes necessary.

 

[AndyHe_imp]

I just spoke with Guhl Motors about this and it would be $375 to modify the ECU timing to be consistent across all cylinders. I'm going to price out buying a "spare" Honda cam shaft and sending it to a shop to have them duplicate it except to have consistent valve timing. I would use the one in my bike but I have no idea how long it and I would rather not have my bike down for that period.

I've taken motorcycles apart but that was 9th grade shop class on my bike that didn't work... yes I got it working but that was a long time ago. So if I decide to go this route I'll probably look for a mechanic in my area to do the swap for me.

 

[Hedge_imp]

I just got my ECU back from Don and maybe I forgot to ask for the no vibration/buzzing upgrade. I certainly got the horespower upgrade. If a hotter cam cones out - I will be installing it.

 

[AndyHe_imp]

Not looking for a hotter cam shaft, just one that doesn't have staggered valve timing.

Does anyone know of any other changes that might be required besides cam shaft and ECU? I can't think of any but then again I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff (but at least I know it).

Looks like it's time for me to at least buy the shop manual for this bike.

 

[CIP57_imp]

Not looking for a hotter cam shaft, just one that doesn't have staggered valve timing.

Does anyone know of any other changes that might be required besides cam shaft and ECU? I can't think of any but then again I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff (but at least I know it).

Looks like it's time for me to at least buy the shop manual for this bike.

You better do your homework before changing out cams. Most engine builders would require you to create that motor out to them to do the required work. If your going that root you might as well change out valve springs and put hotter cams in the bike. There are a few solid builder in CA, i spoke with one early in the year. It just not worth the $$ or trouble to do it when the money spent could buy a used bike.

Try these guys in CA
Megacycle Cams

They don't have cams for the CB1100, they would probably require your motor to do the work.

 

[Hedge_imp]

You will never go wrong getting the shop manual for anything!

 

[AndyHe_imp]

Yup, shop manual is on order.

Has anyone taken a look at the crankshaft? Is it symmetrical with respect to all cylinders? I would expect on an inline four that the crankshaft would lay flat since each stroke would be 180 degrees out of phase with the next. If both the cam shaft and the crankshaft were modified for staggered valve timing then I'm not messing with that. ( And I still don't know enough to know what I'm talking about. )

 

[glynb_imp]

Have you tried gloves with gel padding, or gel grips? I've only tried them for bicycles where they do help. You could change sprocket gearing to change the speed the vibes set in at.
Also, how many miles on the bike now?

The gel grips will probably be the next step.

I really don't want to mess with sprocket size - yet. Frankly, I'm not comfortable putting the engine under load like that at under 2500rpms. Motorcycle manufacturers no longer publish horsepower and torque values on their engines - and it's a loss, because seeing where the torque peaks tells me if this engine is a screamer or a lugging tractor engine.

If it's happier at lower RPMs...I can keep it under 2500 for about 2/3 of my riding. Problem basically solved! If it's a screamer, designed to wind up...then I'm gonna cause problems making it lug.

Mine has some vibration around 3500rpm, what you describe is not my experience on my CB2013 and CB2014Dlx.

I would meet up with another member and swap bikes to compare. And I would start checking all bolts with a torque wrench, starting with the engine mounting bolts.

Is the vibration the same on the center stand or only when riding?

Any modifications or work to the bike?

Let's get some details and explore.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Haven't tried it on the center stand.

The vibration is absolutely the engine and not tires. I've run it up and pulled in the clutch; and it all goes away.

No mods. Only 300-mile service. One "oops" - feeling in the dark for the side-stand, I accidentally toed the gearbox into first, engine idling. The usual: A lunge forward and the engine stalled. I'm assuming no serious damage because there's no change in the smoothness of the gearbox shifting.

It didn't seem to change anything; but I was still "breaking it in" and didn't want to rev it above 3000 in that time period.

The 4-cylinder vibration also annoys me, though most people don't notice it.
If you are saying the vibes have gotten worse, was there a point it changed noticeably? And did you change anything else?
Stock mirrors are an engineered part of the handlebar dampening. An aftermarket exhaust or engine guards can change the harmonics. Did you check torque on engine mounting bolts? That's a critical point on the VFRs and ST1300s.
If the vibes are normal, there's no fear of damaging the engine.

Seems they're worse. It may just be because I'm getting more free with the throttle as the engine wears in.

But I seem to remember it smoother up to 3000. It may be just familiarity. There wasn't a sudden change, like something coming loose inside the engine.
I see on another thread here...a former member traded in his 2013 for the buzziness.

I also see here...reference to "adjusting" the Balance Shafts.

ARE they adjustable? Here's what's going on. I'm in a small town in the Bitterroots...a very-wealthy town, with a university in it; but smallish. Honda has one dealer; the one I bought from...the owner IS the sales department. BMW sells a lot here. Harley sells a lot here. KTM sells a few here.

Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, not so much.

The Honda dealer/owner...had this one. Don't know why he bought it; but the way he tells it, it sat on his floor for a year. He had never ridden one and didn't know anyone who had. He had NO CLUE.

He wasn't even pushing it. It was like...there...I guess after a year with it, he figured I wouldn't be interested in it, either. It was only pre-delivery, when he tested it out before turning it over to me, that he saw what it was...yes, he's a rider; a rider in his 60s. The target market; and he was bubbling like a kid when he came off it.

Point? He doesn't KNOW these things. Nobody in town knows these things - I'm probably the only owner this side of Idaho with one.

So...if there's a need to set the Balance Shafts...references and TSMs and anything else, would be a great help.

The gel grips will probably be the next step.

I really don't want to mess with sprocket size - yet. Frankly, I'm not comfortable putting the engine under load like that at under 2500rpms. Motorcycle manufacturers no longer publish horsepower and torque values on their engines - and it's a loss, because seeing where the torque peaks tells me if this engine is a screamer or a lugging tractor engine.

If it's happier at lower RPMs...I can keep it under 2500 for about 2/3 of my riding. Problem basically solved! If it's a screamer, designed to wind up...then I'm gonna cause problems making it lug.

Mine has some vibration around 3500rpm, what you describe is not my experience on my CB2013 and CB2014Dlx.

I would meet up with another member and swap bikes to compare. And I would start checking all bolts with a torque wrench, starting with the engine mounting bolts.

Is the vibration the same on the center stand or only when riding?

Any modifications or work to the bike?

Let's get some details and explore.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Haven't tried it on the center stand.

The vibration is absolutely the engine and not tires. I've run it up and pulled in the clutch; and it all goes away.

No mods. Only 300-mile service. One "oops" - feeling in the dark for the side-stand, I accidentally toed the gearbox into first, engine idling. The usual: A lunge forward and the engine stalled. I'm assuming no serious damage because there's no change in the smoothness of the gearbox shifting.

It didn't seem to change anything; but I was still "breaking it in" and didn't want to rev it above 3000 in that time period.

The 4-cylinder vibration also annoys me, though most people don't notice it.
If you are saying the vibes have gotten worse, was there a point it changed noticeably? And did you change anything else?
Stock mirrors are an engineered part of the handlebar dampening. An aftermarket exhaust or engine guards can change the harmonics. Did you check torque on engine mounting bolts? That's a critical point on the VFRs and ST1300s.
If the vibes are normal, there's no fear of damaging the engine.

Seems they're worse. It may just be because I'm getting more free with the throttle as the engine wears in.

But I seem to remember it smoother up to 3000. It may be just familiarity. There wasn't a sudden change, like something coming loose inside the engine.
I see on another thread here...a former member traded in his 2013 for the buzziness.

I also see here...reference to "adjusting" the Balance Shafts.

ARE they adjustable? Here's what's going on. I'm in a small town in the Bitterroots...a very-wealthy town, with a university in it; but smallish. Honda has one dealer; the one I bought from...the owner IS the sales department. BMW sells a lot here. Harley sells a lot here. KTM sells a few here.

Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, not so much.

The Honda dealer/owner...had this one. Don't know why he bought it; but the way he tells it, it sat on his floor for a year. He had never ridden one and didn't know anyone who had. He had NO CLUE.

He wasn't even pushing it. It was like...there...I guess after a year with it, he figured I wouldn't be interested in it, either. It was only pre-delivery, when he tested it out before turning it over to me, that he saw what it was...yes, he's a rider; a rider in his 60s. The target market; and he was bubbling like a kid when he came off it.

Point? He doesn't KNOW these things. Nobody in town knows these things - I'm probably the only owner this side of Idaho with one.

So...if there's a need to set the Balance Shafts...references and TSMs and anything else, would be a great help.
If the bike only has 300 miles on it, it might just need to be broken in over time and miles. Every motorcycle I have ever owned always ran smoother at 1000 miles on the motor, than just 300. I would wait before i did anything, and put more miles on it.

 

[rboe]

At this point, I think the bike and rider need to be broken in together, assuming at this point that mechanic and fellow riders agree there is nothing wrong with the bike.

Sometimes the machine and operator just have to get to know each other.

Sometimes this means it is traded in! Just saw a 2013 CB1100 at GoAZ with 496 miles on her. Traded in. Yikes!

 

[Cormanus]

Then I would suggest changing sprockets to alter your gear ratio. If you are a highway speeds rider, go with a 19 tooth sprocket in the front and a lesser tooth sprocket in the rear. The early cb1110's were geared too short, for sport.

Can you tell more about this topic? I'd be interested in ratio, teeth count and purpose.

Can you tell more about this topic? I'd be interested in ratio, teeth count and purpose.
According to the parts listing, the 2013 is 18T in the front and 39T in the rear.

Same in Europe:

CB1100AD EUROPE 2013 SC65 front: 18T rear: 39T

Hey Cormanus, could you tell about the 2010 Australian model? At least there is another parts No.:

Europe 2013 front sprocket 18T = 23801MAZ000
Australian 2010 front sprocket, ?T = 23801MEJ000

I wonder, if there was really a ratio difference for the earlier CB1100.

Same in Europe:

CB1100AD EUROPE 2013 SC65 front: 18T rear: 39T

Hey Cormanus, could you tell about the 2010 Australian model? At least there is another parts No.:

Europe 2013 front sprocket 18T = 23801MAZ000
Australian 2010 front sprocket, ?T = 23801MEJ000

I wonder, if there was really a ratio difference for the earlier CB1100.
My 2011 Australian CB1100 has front=18T; rear=39T.

 

[nhawk7504_imp]

I remember riding 70s inline fours that buzzed like beehives. It was all part of the inline four experience. Bottom of the bottom lines, the engineers all test rode the bike. They got tons of opinions. Fast. Slow. Compared to this. Compared to that. They were young. They were old. They'd worked on VFour motors, twins, inlines, all sizes and shapes, racing and otherwise. They wanted the engine to feel like it was there. Air cooled. Tingle. Krackle. Snap. Ping. Pop. "Hello! Air cooled!" They wanted that. And I think, all said and done, hashed and re hashed. Baked, broiled, fried, grilled, whatever. Collectively, we like it. We like the motor to talk to us, just like they did. They make a Gold Wing. They make a VFR. This, is the C B 1100. Slap on some gel grips, sheepskin seat cover, mustard, whatever you like. Turn key. Whirring sound. Engine switch, click. Start. BrrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRR. Ride. Repeat.

 

[Firstfour_imp]

I remember riding 70s inline fours that buzzed like beehives. It was all part of the inline four experience. Bottom of the bottom lines, the engineers all test rode the bike. They got tons of opinions. Fast. Slow. Compared to this. Compared to that. They were young. They were old. They'd worked on VFour motors, twins, inlines, all sizes and shapes, racing and otherwise. They wanted the engine to feel like it was there. Air cooled. Tingle. Krackle. Snap. Ping. Pop. "Hello! Air cooled!" They wanted that. And I think, all said and done, hashed and re hashed. Baked, broiled, fried, grilled, whatever. Collectively, we like it. We like the motor to talk to us, just like they did. They make a Gold Wing. They make a VFR. This, is the C B 1100. Slap on some gel grips, sheepskin seat cover, mustard, whatever you like. Turn key. Whirring sound. Engine switch, click. Start. BrrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRR. Ride. Repeat.

Right on, Brother!

 

[JustPassinThru_imp]

At this point, I think the bike and rider need to be broken in together, assuming at this point that mechanic and fellow riders agree there is nothing wrong with the bike.

Sometimes the machine and operator just have to get to know each other.

Sometimes this means it is traded in! Just saw a 2013 CB1100 at GoAZ with 496 miles on her. Traded in. Yikes!

He's gonna lose a lot of money on that.

I almost wish I'd gone slower. More and more used ones, with three-digit miles are popping up...it's a shame. Don't know if it's the bad economy or unrealistic buyer expectations.

Mine's at a thousand miles now. It's a keeper, even if the vibration doesn't mitigate. There's much to like. And with thirty years' riding experience, I'm past my break-in period, too.

I cannot see selling a cycle that still has OEM gas in it, for cripes' sake.....

 

[rboe]

There is an 2013 at GoAZ, less that 500 miles on her. Traded in on a BMW. WTH?!

I don't understand it either, but some folks have money to drain away I guess. I'll be in Lewiston Idaho mid June. Bring it over and I'll test ride it to see if it's like mine.