VIBRATION - deciding too much; and living with it.

[JustPassinThru_imp]

The vibration thingy...as the miles roll on, it seems to be getting worse.

Nope, not gonna sell. Nope, don't want this machine - which was built TO PERFECTION in Soichiro Honda's model plant - to be taken apart in search of mysterious malady, on the bench of a backwoods Montana shop.

But, as they say, decisions must be made. There's a fork in the road...take it.

First, how much is too much? This engine starts and purrs smoothly at about 1000rpm. It pulls strong out the gate, and between 2000-2500rpm is smooth as silk. In 1,2 and 3rd gear, that's fine for traffic.

From 2500 to 3000, things get a little buzzy. That's for fast acceleration in traffic in lower gears.

3000 to 4000 things get a bit out of hand. Mirrors are still fine but my left-hand, which seems more sensitive, starts getting the neuralgia tingles. This is the RPM band when accelerating to highway speed on our limited-access signaled arterials.

Above 4000...which I've run it up to to see what happens...or at highway speeds, which out here in the West is about 85...it gets ugly. Just under 5000rpm, the tank starts to buzz. A little higher and I feel it through the well-padded seat.

Is this normal, in others' experience? I know a four is gonna have some harmonic issues. I can live with it...there is so much else with this machine to love. But I don't want the engine tearing itself apart.

NOW. What is a good way to mitigate the buzz through the grips? I have the factory bars and weights. I read the other thread about someone who replaced or tried to replace Honda bars with aftermarket...how exquisitely-engineered were those weights.

Fair enough. Is there a better sort of grip? I wear off-road riding gloves; they help but they're not a full solution. The bars are fine for me. Keep the bars and weights and try heavily-padded grips? I have big hands; a larger circumference won't hurt me.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[furious_blue_imp]

Do you have any other experiences to compare your findings with ?
With 'just' a single balance shaft, the engine was meant to NOT be as smooth as it can be.
On the other hand one can tell it is not an unbalanced inline 4 motor.

Vibration is an XS650 anywhere above 5K rpm, or a CB350 at highway speeds. Now those things will rattle the most insensitive hands (every time I pine for the good ole days, I just remind myself of those 2 bikes, in particular).

If your vibration really is out of the ordinary, it could be that your balance shaft needs to be tuned, but I would guess that it came from the factory properly adjusted and snug enough not to turn out of spec.. If it is out of whack, seems like it should be covered under warranty.

 

[JustPassinThru_imp]

No experience with an in-line four (well, not on a motorcycle)

I had two BMW oilheads - an R1200GS and an R1100RT. The GS was a buzzer as I got it but with proper first service (on the road!) and throttle-body setting, the buzzing was toned down. Sold it as it was a tall bike and I was getting fatter. Not a good match.

The R1100RT was a buzzer, too. High-mileage used; bought for a ridiculously-low price. Sold it for the same price when a non-related issue caused a panic. False alarm but a wake-up to reality.

My Burgman 650 with a water-cooled 360-firing twin (and balance shafts) is a little bit smoother.

My old Honda GL500, with the water-cooled V, was a LOT smoother. There were vibrations from the V layout; but not, IIRC, the buzzing.

My TU250 buzzed a bit, but it was a high-revving small thumper.

So, the answer is...yes and no.

 

[pekingduck]

The 4-cylinder vibration also annoys me, though most people don't notice it.
If you are saying the vibes have gotten worse, was there a point it changed noticeably? And did you change anything else?
Stock mirrors are an engineered part of the handlebar dampening. An aftermarket exhaust or engine guards can change the harmonics. Did you check torque on engine mounting bolts? That's a critical point on the VFRs and ST1300s.
If the vibes are normal, there's no fear of damaging the engine.

 

[Elipten_imp]

Mine has some vibration around 3500rpm, what you describe is not my experience on my CB2013 and CB2014Dlx.

I would meet up with another member and swap bikes to compare. And I would start checking all bolts with a torque wrench, starting with the engine mounting bolts.

Is the vibration the same on the center stand or only when riding?

Any modifications or work to the bike?

Let's get some details and explore.


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[pekingduck]

Have you tried gloves with gel padding, or gel grips? I've only tried them for bicycles where they do help. You could change sprocket gearing to change the speed the vibes set in at.
Also, how many miles on the bike now?

 

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Have you tried gloves with gel padding, or gel grips? I've only tried them for bicycles where they do help. You could change sprocket gearing to change the speed the vibes set in at.
Also, how many miles on the bike now?

The gel grips will probably be the next step.

I really don't want to mess with sprocket size - yet. Frankly, I'm not comfortable putting the engine under load like that at under 2500rpms. Motorcycle manufacturers no longer publish horsepower and torque values on their engines - and it's a loss, because seeing where the torque peaks tells me if this engine is a screamer or a lugging tractor engine.

If it's happier at lower RPMs...I can keep it under 2500 for about 2/3 of my riding. Problem basically solved! If it's a screamer, designed to wind up...then I'm gonna cause problems making it lug.

Mine has some vibration around 3500rpm, what you describe is not my experience on my CB2013 and CB2014Dlx.

I would meet up with another member and swap bikes to compare. And I would start checking all bolts with a torque wrench, starting with the engine mounting bolts.

Is the vibration the same on the center stand or only when riding?

Any modifications or work to the bike?

Let's get some details and explore.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Haven't tried it on the center stand.

The vibration is absolutely the engine and not tires. I've run it up and pulled in the clutch; and it all goes away.

No mods. Only 300-mile service. One "oops" - feeling in the dark for the side-stand, I accidentally toed the gearbox into first, engine idling. The usual: A lunge forward and the engine stalled. I'm assuming no serious damage because there's no change in the smoothness of the gearbox shifting.

It didn't seem to change anything; but I was still "breaking it in" and didn't want to rev it above 3000 in that time period.

The 4-cylinder vibration also annoys me, though most people don't notice it.
If you are saying the vibes have gotten worse, was there a point it changed noticeably? And did you change anything else?
Stock mirrors are an engineered part of the handlebar dampening. An aftermarket exhaust or engine guards can change the harmonics. Did you check torque on engine mounting bolts? That's a critical point on the VFRs and ST1300s.
If the vibes are normal, there's no fear of damaging the engine.

Seems they're worse. It may just be because I'm getting more free with the throttle as the engine wears in.

But I seem to remember it smoother up to 3000. It may be just familiarity. There wasn't a sudden change, like something coming loose inside the engine.
I see on another thread here...a former member traded in his 2013 for the buzziness.

I also see here...reference to "adjusting" the Balance Shafts.

ARE they adjustable? Here's what's going on. I'm in a small town in the Bitterroots...a very-wealthy town, with a university in it; but smallish. Honda has one dealer; the one I bought from...the owner IS the sales department. BMW sells a lot here. Harley sells a lot here. KTM sells a few here.

Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, not so much.

The Honda dealer/owner...had this one. Don't know why he bought it; but the way he tells it, it sat on his floor for a year. He had never ridden one and didn't know anyone who had. He had NO CLUE.

He wasn't even pushing it. It was like...there...I guess after a year with it, he figured I wouldn't be interested in it, either. It was only pre-delivery, when he tested it out before turning it over to me, that he saw what it was...yes, he's a rider; a rider in his 60s. The target market; and he was bubbling like a kid when he came off it.

Point? He doesn't KNOW these things. Nobody in town knows these things - I'm probably the only owner this side of Idaho with one.

So...if there's a need to set the Balance Shafts...references and TSMs and anything else, would be a great help.

 

[pekingduck]

Well, I don't think the balancer shaft is at fault. It is gear driven with a rubber dampener, as found on most Honda inline 4s, and really need no adjustment here. There are no bulletins on it on any subject. Trying to chase something that isn't broken is a bad road to go down.

This is something nearly impossible to quantify - it's all perception. What bothers you may not bother the next rider.

Few dealers have sold more than one or two, and most have few miles, so there aren't many "experts" around.
I've been riding continually for 45 years, 100+ bikes, still commuting daily on one. When I first rode a CB1100, I probably felt like your salesman. Wow! Perfect! Bliss! Now with some miles, the vibes are my main complaint. There are no perfect bikes, and likely never will be.

 

[Lord Popgun]

The only adjustment for the balancer is for lash adjustment.

 

[dr_rock_imp]

Do you notice that the vibration seems to get better above 5500 rpms? I notice it between 4k and 5k but its not horrible .

 

[Olyrider]

Do you notice that the vibration seems to get better above 5500 rpms? I notice it between 4k and 5k but its not horrible .

I noticed it from the first day. But I feel it in my butt. Tingling sensation that I wish wasn't there, but not bad....3/10. Also between 4-5K.

Don't notice it in the bars, but I switched immediately to Pro-Grip Gel grips. Maybe they help?!

 

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Do you notice that the vibration seems to get better above 5500 rpms? I notice it between 4k and 5k but its not horrible .

I noticed it from the first day. But I feel it in my butt. Tingling sensation that I wish wasn't there, but not bad....3/10. Also between 4-5K.

Don't notice it in the bars, but I switched immediately to Pro-Grip Gel grips. Maybe they help?!

I noticed it from the first day. But I feel it in my butt. Tingling sensation that I wish wasn't there, but not bad....3/10. Also between 4-5K.

Don't notice it in the bars, but I switched immediately to Pro-Grip Gel grips. Maybe they help?!
I just did the rounds of shops...nobody has gel gloves or grips.

Pro-Grip. Who sells them? Website? Brick/mortar?

 

[nhawk7504_imp]

I've had many inlines. Among them, my 2002 YAM FZ1 did not have noticable vibration. It had vibration but it was smooth for the most part, and would just howl til the speedo said 90 mph. Also my 2006 Honda 919 was smooth and would hold 70-75 mph all day long. - Along comes a Honda engineer, says, "Hey the 1300 water cooled motor, (which the 1100 is partially based upon), is too smooth. This CB1100 needs some vibration to give it character." So he offsets the valve timing to make it rumble at low rpms, which at higher rpms becomes somewhat annoying. The engineers all get together in a big meeting room afterwards, having taken some test rides. Someone says, "Soandso-san, with all due respect, this bike vibrate my hands and butt on highway." - "Hey, you," says Soandso-san, "This bike supposed to shake like old one from '69." And so, with offset valve timing, it vibrates. - The first test ride I took, it vibrated my hands and seat on the highway. I was annoyed but enjoying my ride. I was thinking perhaps one could add rubber washers to the engine mounts, but the decision by the engineers was to slow down the ride and enjoy the torque at sub highway speeds, which I, being older, in fact found enjoyable. The new CBR650 is plagued by vibration as well. Were I that vibration seeking engineer, I would have balanced the timing and made it smooth, character be darned. That being said, many people are not annoyed by it or don't notice it on their bikes, so some may be smoother than others. THE answer is, it was timed into the valve train in the motor. - Contrast: My Harley Nightster vibrated my pinky finger asleep. An old 80s twin Yamaha 650 vibrated like crazy when I rode it.

 

[xNE0x_imp]

Heh. Not quite sure what to make of this thread tbh. Vibration you say? Ever ridden a twin Harley? The vibration factor is nothing compared to other motorcycles.. And by other I mean an NC700X. The NC has more vibration than the CB1100.

Seems like everyone is nit picking on the CB1100 lately. Could be just me though.

 

[Griso Guy_imp]

My 2014 DLX is supremely smooth at just about any rpm. That said I believe it may be a perception issue. What is smooth to me may feel like a ride on a 441 BSA Victor to a mortal man.
I have been riding 45+ years. Many of those years were on large displacement British parallel twins. The absolute definition of vibrators. So maybe I have a high tolerance for annoying vibration. Anyway my other bike is a Moto Guzzi Griso, 1200cc's of twisting force. At idle it shakes like a paint mixer at Home Depot, as the revs build it smooth's out beautifully. Anyway vibration like the OP described is strange, especially the part about "I've run it up and pulled in the clutch; and it all goes away." So it only vibrates under load?

 

[nhawk7504_imp]

Heh. Not quite sure what to make of this thread tbh. Vibration you say? Ever ridden a twin Harley? The vibration factor is nothing compared to other motorcycles.. And by other I mean an NC700X. The NC has more vibration than the CB1100.

Seems like everyone is nit picking on the CB1100 lately. Could be just me though.

Just to qualify, I wanted to say I liked everything about the CB1100 the first time I rode it. For myself, however, and being picky for sure, with a Dad who is an aeronautical engineer, I simply would have liked a smoother motor. It could have been done. That top end engineer decided not to keep it as smooth as the CB1300 water cooled Japan bike. I understand why. He gave the motor more character. But the five speed does have, for me, annoying vibration on the highway as a result. That same character around town is, for me, annoying at higher speeds. (spoiled by a 96 VFR 750!) Hence the 6 speed, and CB1100 motor "fine tuning" for the DLX and '14 STD. They made it "better". It's not the same first gen CB1100 motor from 2010. Love the bike, but...

 

[xNE0x_imp]

Then I would suggest changing sprockets to alter your gear ratio. If you are a highway speeds rider, go with a 19 tooth sprocket in the front and a lesser tooth sprocket in the rear. The early cb1110's were geared too short, for sport.

 

[Elipten_imp]

Amazon, or big internet motorcycle store for gel grips. I believe Ferret posted what he uses a long time ago.


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[flynrider]

My 2014 DLX is supremely smooth at just about any rpm. That said I believe it may be a perception issue. What is smooth to me may feel like a ride on a 441 BSA Victor to a mortal man.
I have been riding 45+ years. Many of those years were on large displacement British parallel twins. The absolute definition of vibrators. So maybe I have a high tolerance for annoying vibration. Anyway my other bike is a Moto Guzzi Griso, 1200cc's of twisting force. At idle it shakes like a paint mixer at Home Depot, as the revs build it smooth's out beautifully. Anyway vibration like the OP described is strange, especially the part about "I've run it up and pulled in the clutch; and it all goes away." So it only vibrates under load?

I'm in this boat. Rode big parallel twins for many years. Parts falling off because of vibration induced metal fatigue was not unusual. More than once I had my throttle wrist go completely numb on a long trip. That said, the vibes from any inline 4 seem relatively minor. Ultimately, I think it depends on what you're accustomed to.

Inline 4s have excellent primary balance, but will always have a secondary imbalance due to the two sets of pistons reversing direction simultaneously. It's more of a high frequency buzz that increases as rpms rise. Some people are more sensitive to this higher frequency than others.

My CB11 has the most buzz in the region of 4K rpm. I think it actually smooths out a bit at 5k (because of the balancer?), since several times I've found myself going down the highway in 4th gear at 5K, having not bothered to shift into 5th. I got some Grab-On slip on foam grip covers last year and it did help a bit with the buzz at highway speed.

 

[Cjsinla_imp]

Mine seems smooth as silk at all rpm's but my other two bikes are Harleys. I'm surprised to hear people say that an in-line 4 would be prone to buzz or vibration.

To the OP, have you figured out the problem yet?