valve timing inaccuracy?

[VTR1000F_imp]

There´s a talk about valve timing defect "built-in" to our engines to create a "character" of old inline four. How would the CB feel with straight timing? Big enough difference to feel it? Where is this achieved, mechanical wise? Camshaft lobes? This is just something what popped up in my head on lazy Friday

 

[CA200_imp]

VTR the manual shows intake values different on the intake cam, 28 degrees on #1 & #2 and 38 degrees on #3 & 4# ABCD

 

[VTR1000F_imp]

so..who will be the first to make custom "straight" camshaft?

 

[gossman_imp]

Certainly wouldn't refer to it as a defect since it was purposely designed that way, much like the Harley lope. I'm not unhappy with it, I like the way it's designed. Want more hp? Buy a cheaper CBR1000.

 

[AndyHe_imp]

With a straight camshaft, wouldn't you also have to reprogram the firmware? I know very little about this area but I'd assume reprogramming would be required. And would this make progress toward eliminating the vibrations many feel around the 3500 RPM mark? Or would it only add a bit more power?

 

[rocket_imp]

I think VTR1000F should explain exactly what " straight timing " means before we go any further. Yes, valve timing can be altered for different power delivery characteristics, but what are you looking for ? Maybe you have the wrong bike. Many posts on this Forum have discussed the smooth, even power band as being one of the attributes of the CB1100. If maximum power is your objective, buy another bike.

 

[the Ferret]

Rocket I think he is just wondering what the CB 1100 would be like if Honda had not set the valve timing to produce the feeling it does at certain rpms.

I don't personally think it would feel much different.

 

[VTR1000F_imp]

I think VTR1000F should explain exactly what " straight timing " means before we go any further. Yes, valve timing can be altered for different power delivery characteristics, but what are you looking for ? Maybe you have the wrong bike. Many posts on this Forum have discussed the smooth, even power band as being one of the attributes of the CB1100. If maximum power is your objective, buy another bike.

Don´t get me wrong. As Ferret says, engineers at Honda implemented offset to valve timing to reproduce a "retro" feeling and buzz to our inline four. They said, without that imperfection the engine would feel "too perfect". I´m absolutely happy with my CB performance, but I was just wondering about this matter and for the sake of discussion.

 

[AndyHe_imp]

I'm also wondering what a "too perfect" engine would feel like. Sounds kind of nice to me.

 

[nhawk7504_imp]

All the valves even instead of offset like that WOULD be nice. We can say all we want about engineering in the past. But this is 2014. The question is not horsepower. The engineer CHOSE to make an engine that ran a little rough timing wise. Then we need grips and bar ends and six speed transmissions to try to "fix" it. My Dad was an aeronautical engineer. They did not engineer vibration into planes. When I test rode the bike, the vibes came thru the seat. I would not choose to engineer in vibration. That's just me. Vibration is not a good thing from an engineering perspective, and in some ways, from a health perspective either. See: Vibration - Health Effects

 

[Houtman_imp]

I was just thinking of something that I can not post !

 

[CIP57_imp]

I was just thinking of something that I can not post !

PM me, i would be happy to post it for you

 

[Houtman_imp]

I was just thinking of something that I can not post !

PM me, i would be happy to post it for you

PM me, i would be happy to post it for you You will be banned !

 

[Ridem32_imp]

Behave Houtman. We got a rally to make in May!! LOL

 

[OldF7Guy_imp]

Rocket I think he is just wondering what the CB 1100 would be like if Honda had not set the valve timing to produce the feeling it does at certain rpms.

I don't personally think it would feel much different.

Going to disagree a bit. 750 Nighthawks are electric smooth. I mean you cant get any better. CB1100s not so much. I have a buzz in my stock grips at 4k or so. Its not bad I cant stand it but I dont like it. Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do.

Im a sucker for retro stuff but I want the modern tech. THe 1100 could have been even better imo. Not complaining but just saying.

 

[furious_blue_imp]

I'm also wondering what a "too perfect" engine would feel like. Sounds kind of nice to me.

Probably something like the old CB1100XX in-line 4 engine. It has dual counterbalancers as compared to the CB1100's single counterbalancer. I spent so much time on that bike (~75,000+ miles) that I had forgotten that in-line 4s have any kind of vibration... The CB1100 has reminded me but I'm glad Honda elected to have the single balancer instead of no balancer at all, keeps the tint in the rose colored glasses

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

Rocket I think he is just wondering what the CB 1100 would be like if Honda had not set the valve timing to produce the feeling it does at certain rpms.

I don't personally think it would feel much different.

Going to disagree a bit. 750 Nighthawks are electric smooth. I mean you cant get any better. CB1100s not so much. I have a buzz in my stock grips at 4k or so. Its not bad I cant stand it but I dont like it. Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do.

Im a sucker for retro stuff but I want the modern tech. THe 1100 could have been even better imo. Not complaining but just saying.

Going to disagree a bit. 750 Nighthawks are electric smooth. I mean you cant get any better. CB1100s not so much. I have a buzz in my stock grips at 4k or so. Its not bad I cant stand it but I dont like it. Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do.

Im a sucker for retro stuff but I want the modern tech. THe 1100 could have been even better imo. Not complaining but just saying.
Some of those who own, or who want to own, a CB often seem to want to move away from what this bike is, a RETRO standard. To make the bike better poses an interesting conundrum. What is "better" and how much "better" do you make it before it ceases to be what it is and morphs into something else? A hyper-sports for instance. Change the frame, engine, suspension, add multi mode engine control, put on some body panels and whoa! That's better! OK, I exagerate, but you may get my drift. Café the bike, farkle, hot it a tad. I can understand that, as long as the basic concept remains. Remember, when this style of bike was new and modern they were often modded by owners but could not stray far from that basic because that's all there was. Honda have interpreted that '70s standard style, including some warts, and marketed it on that platform within, I guess, a budget and a view to competing retros. Viewing from a 2014 perspective it is easy to say it could have been better. But not for me.

As the (not so) OldF7Guy puts it "just saying".

Cheers

 

[VTR1000F_imp]

I still say, it´s an excellent bike. Power Commander, along with "Tamer" throttle tube, made the bike even nicer to use for me. These mods may be great for me, but unnecessary for other. Also, "electric smooth" sound great to me but I can live with the tiny bit of vibe stock CB engine has. It is still smoother then other bikes I rode in the past.

It was said on this forum in the past already: CB is almost perfect with so litlle problems, that we can tolerate this theoretical "what if" talks.

 

[CIP57_imp]

Rocket I think he is just wondering what the CB 1100 would be like if Honda had not set the valve timing to produce the feeling it does at certain rpms.

I don't personally think it would feel much different.

Going to disagree a bit. 750 Nighthawks are electric smooth. I mean you cant get any better. CB1100s not so much. I have a buzz in my stock grips at 4k or so. Its not bad I cant stand it but I dont like it. Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do.

Im a sucker for retro stuff but I want the modern tech. THe 1100 could have been even better imo. Not complaining but just saying.

Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do. You think so!!! You have been a member here a long time, its not like you weren't fore warned. Now you want to sell a bike you have owned for about a month? I don't think your going to be happy with the 2014 either, there identical.

 

[AndyHe_imp]

Rocket I think he is just wondering what the CB 1100 would be like if Honda had not set the valve timing to produce the feeling it does at certain rpms.

I don't personally think it would feel much different.

Going to disagree a bit. 750 Nighthawks are electric smooth. I mean you cant get any better. CB1100s not so much. I have a buzz in my stock grips at 4k or so. Its not bad I cant stand it but I dont like it. Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do.

Im a sucker for retro stuff but I want the modern tech. THe 1100 could have been even better imo. Not complaining but just saying.

Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do. You think so!!! You have been a member here a long time, its not like you weren't fore warned. Now you want to sell a bike you have owned for about a month? I don't think your going to be happy with the 2014 either, there identical.

Honda, imo, made a mistake of trying to time in the old school feel. Really a dumb thing to do. You think so!!! You have been a member here a long time, its not like you weren't fore warned. Now you want to sell a bike you have owned for about a month? I don't think your going to be happy with the 2014 either, there identical.
Hm, looks like this generates some strong reactions and I can understand why. Some people really like the bike as it is, others wonder what it would have been like had Honda not made a few changes to make the bike more "retro".

While I agree that the bike is very different from a CB1000R which is why I like it and it doesn't have to be fully modern (such as the CBR's 124HP and much better suspension), I'm not quite sure I agree with the rational of taking a fine inline four and purposely making it not work as well as it could given it's design. It's one thing to say "how can we take this fine inline four and make it better" but another to say "this fine inline four is just too smooth... let's make it rougher" which is what they admit to in the engineer's viewpoint piece that Honda published.

Now I will complete admit I'm a noob here as I haven't even picked up my bike. But I will also say that from an engineer's viewpoint, I understand OldF7Guy's point that it may have been a mistake to go as far as putting in a camshaft that explicitly is suboptimal just for more vibration.