Up Hill Battle & Wheelies

Papa Weeley, that's right, but the OP reported almost no power. He reported nearly stalling if he wasn't in 1st or 2nd. I find that interesting. I've ridden up lots of hills, even some pretty steep ones and I've never found the CB short of power. In really steep twisters I'd be in 1st or 2nd, but I can't recall a long, straight hill of any gradient that I haven't been able to accelerate up in top.
 
I'm riding the foothills east of Nashville NC. Rarely do I drop into 2nd gear. Usually it's 3rd, doing maybe 40mph and 3000 to 4000 rpm from what I can recall. Lots of twisty hilly back roads. It's a 6 speed, and I've been amazed by how much low end torque it has, even down to 2000 rpm. Most of my riding is 1200 to 2500 feet of elevation. I can't imagine needing to
Bush the revs up to 5000 rpm to get it to accelerate. Hope this data point helps.
Correction, it's Ashville.
 
Cormanus_imp said:
Papa Weeley, that's right, but the OP reported almost no power. He reported nearly stalling if he wasn't in 1st or 2nd. I find that interesting. I've ridden up lots of hills, even some pretty steep ones and I've never found the CB short of power. In really steep twisters I'd be in 1st or 2nd, but I can't recall a long, straight hill of any gradient that I haven't been able to accelerate up in top.
Me either, but I'm wondering if it has more to do with the gradient of his particular hill. I've tried that in my '93 Miata (stick) in the local mountains, and had the exact same experience. Many times I've had to pull down into 2nd to keep from what nearly feels like stalling on a couple of the steeper sections. I'm betting it has more to with using higher gears and a STEEP hill, than any true loss of power. At least, that's what I'm hoping for the guy, rather than some massive engine problem! :cool:
 
I suspect you're right PW. :thumbsup:
 
Dave_imp said:
I've never had my CB below 5,000 feet! It's been as high as 12,095 feet. There are no performance issues at altitude that I can discern.

If you've never had your CB below 5,000 feet how would you know?
Very true, I don't know how the bike responds at sea level, but I imagine the change in elevation that I experience (+7,000') is similar to what you experience (+5,000'). We're just starting from a different place.
 
I'm not at sea level (if someone in FLA rides to the shore are they then at sea level? lol) but close at 820 ft and have ridden to 7000 feet and not experienced any issues.
 
Ferret, you are correct. No issues will be apparent at the altitudes most bikes operate, even up to the 12000ft mark. EFI (depending on its complexity) will compensate somewhat for altitude by leaning the mixture and, perhaps, adjusting timing. This optimises the fuel burn. Normally aspirated carbs, as fitted to, say, an old CB750, will not compensate for altitude. If your bike is fitted with normally aspirated carbs and you spent all your time at altitude (Rocky Mountains or wherever) you could change jet sizes to suit. This would mean a more optimum fuel burn. This is what EFI does for you.

However if you happened to have a dynamometer in your back pocket, and you used it to check HP at intervals during your climb to altitude, it would soon become apparent that as you climbed higher HP decreases. More so on the carburettor bike than the EFI bike. But still both bikes will lose power. However unless you are doing timed runs on a drag track it is unlikely to be noticeable. This HP loss occurs because for every induction stroke the same volume of gas contains less oxygen. Strapping on your portable oxygen mask and continuing the climb on that twisty new road to the peak of Mt Everest would mean that at some stage during the climb you would notice a HP decrease, and perhaps the engine might even give up the ghost completely. I say perhaps 'cause I don't know when this would happen, but it surely would.

Cheers
For my US brethren when I said "gas" above I did not mean petrol (or flatulence) but simply "air".
 
I was taught that for every increase of 1,000ft in elevation a normally aspirated engine decreases 3% in horsepower


2014 CB1100 DLX
2013 CB1100 Std
1990 BMW K75 RT
 
Elipten_imp said:
I was taught that for every increase of 1,000ft in elevation a normally aspirated engine decreases 3% in horsepower


2014 CB1100 DLX
2013 CB1100 Std
1990 BMW K75 RT
That's a good approximation. If Ridem took his re-flashed bike to a dyno at 5000ft he would be pulling about 6-10% less power. About, and I say about because that 3% figure is more applicable to carbureted engines, what us ordinary mortals get at S/L.

Cheers
 
Routinely ride in the mountains on steep to stupidly steep grades but generally the roads are so tight 3rd or 2nd are the only gears I'd consider. Rode the same hills on my former bike, a BMW R1200GS, and used the same gears on the same hills. Granted the GS seemed to develop its grunt lower and sooner but I still had to downshift to keep from stalling.
There is one unpaved hill I could do in 2nd on the BMW that my Ural required 1st, truck uses 4wd - haven't tried the CB.
On the big wide open sweeping up hills with no traffic I do need to keep the revs up - that's a 4cyl vs twin cylinder issue. Different powerbands, big twins can be fun but a big single rocks in the hills.
Elevations in my mtns 2 - 3.7k normally, a few higher but you have to look for them.
 
Use the gears to keep the rpm's in the powerband,that's what the transmission is for.If the grade is steep enough the mph might be slower than desired,but the engine will pull.That's why you see slow tractor trailers on long steep grades pulling 80,000 lbs with only 300 or 350 horsepower.Once went up I80east out of Salt Lake City with a 300 Cummins and 80,000 lbs at 11 mph,took almost an hour to hit the top,got passed by a UPS truck,it was embarrassing.
 
On my recent trip to BRP I found myself compelled to down shift when the RPM's dropped below 3000.

It's happy place was 3000-5000.

If I needed to pass someone quickly, up to 7000 was plenty.

But I estimated the difference between 1st and 2nd was 2000 rpm while 2-3 or 3-4 was 1000 rpm, which made dropping to 1st unpleasant.
 
I can't imagine the hill that couldn't be taken in at least 2nd on the CB. A serious sharp turn on a hill may require a drop to first to negotiate but I have ridden up some seriously steep hills in Ohio, West Virginia and North Carolina in 2nd and third gears.
 
The ferret_imp said:
I can't imagine the hill that couldn't be taken in at least 2nd on the CB. A serious sharp turn on a hill may require a drop to first to negotiate but I have ridden up some seriously steep hills in Ohio, West Virginia and North Carolina in 2nd and third gears.
I agree, 2nd is the power gear, maybe off road uphill negotiating pot holes you would be in first.

There are a lot of similarity between a motor's torque and human torque. When bicycling up a grade you would never see a professional in a gear that would cause him to max out torque and cause burn, there always spinning. Torque builds big muscles and burn out rather than endurance. Same with a motor, its much happier and less stressed at higher RPM. A motor will be less stressed up hill spinning at 5000rpm's than 2500 rpm's.
 
I doubt there any public roads with steeper hills than my neighborhood. A couple of folks visited for a cookout during the Bland Rally and got a sample.. Second gear gives me a lot of speed and power options on the tight up hills, first spins out too much. On one dirt gravel seriously uphill road I need to have a flying start and lean over the handlebars while in second to make it up the hill. Definitely not a night time road.

I use second gear usually and run 15 - 25 mpg through the "neighborhood" - too many deer and turkey to go faster. Out cruising on the hills up to the BRP which are pretty tight and twisty I'm usually in 3rd running 35-40, on the bigger sweepers and faster fun roads I try and stay in 4th to take advantage of engine braking to slow down enough for the next curve.
Our inline 4 cylinder gives us a lot of options and enjoys the advantage of some midrange grunt to go along with availability of high end RPMs.

Rode a few thumpers around here recently and discovered they like to stall out, surprised me. Dual sports are geared differently, not necessarily better.

Anybody for a supercharger?
 
We just got back a week ago from the BRP and surrounding areas. The wife and I were on the GoldWing...all I kept thinking was..."it would be nice to have the CB1100 up here by myself for a few days"!! Don't get me wrong...love traveling with the wife, but I really want to hit those roads on the CB!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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