Trouble shifting

[CB1100AZ_imp]

I have a 2013 CB1100. It hasn't been started for 3 months and when I started it today, I discovered a problem with shifting gears. When I shifted into 1st gear the bike started to creep ahead. I let out the clutch and the bike moved ahead. However, I could not shift it into 2nd gear. I road around in 1st gear for awhile and then stopped. I could not get it to shift into neutral. I shut the bike off and was then able to get it into neutral. I then started the bike again and shifted into 1st and it started to creep forward again. I let out the clutch and moved ahead. Again I could not shift into 2nd gear. After several tries I finally got it into 2nd gear. I rode around in 2nd but could not get it into 3rd.

My first thought is that the clutch master cylinder is not working and therefore the clutch is not releasing. It seems that the clutch lever does not have much resistance when I pull on it. Is it possible that the seals in the master cylinder are leaking? Is there a way to check this out?

I assume there is a slave cylinder down at the clutch. Is that correct? If so, I assume there could be a problem with it not releasing the clutch.

Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lord Popgun]

More advanced mechanics will chime in, but the first thing I’d do is flush and bleed the fluid. And yes, there is a slave cylinder down there.

 

[shahyaan_imp]

Sounds like the clutch packs are sticking or dragging. Might be worth an oil change as well as looking at clutch fluid.


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[pekingduck]

The above info is all good advice. Any clutch master cylinder leakage would be inside the master cylinder and not visible - but that's a rare failure. Oil change is a good idea also. If the oil is thick from an kind of additive, the plates might be dragging. Master cylinder flush and bleed is the second thing to check.

 

[CB1100AZ_imp]

Thanks guys for the input. I changed the oil less than 100 miles ago so I am going to address the clutch fluid first. I will flush and bleed the master/slave cylinders and report back on the results.

 

[the Ferret]

What oil did you use just out of curiosity?

 

[gmike_imp]

At 15K miles, 5 years ,I had the brake & clutch fluid replaced on my 2013. The shop said the break fluid looked good but the clutch fluid looked nasty and really needed to be replaced. They emphasized nasty. Never had a problem though.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Is there a remote chance of master cylinder premature corrosion due to water in the system?

 

[the Ferret]

Well he said he changed the oil less than 100 miles before, and made no reference to the issue happening before the oil change which is why I asked.

If something changes after you have recently done something, always check that first.

 

[pekingduck]

At 15K miles, 5 years ,I had the brake & clutch fluid replaced on my 2013. The shop said the break fluid looked good but the clutch fluid looked nasty and really needed to be replaced. They emphasized nasty. Never had a problem though.

Nobody knows why, but clutch fluid always turns dark faster, usually in a few thousand miles. Doesn't harm it though.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Well he said he changed the oil less than 100 miles before, and made no reference to the issue happening before the oil change which is why I asked.

If something changes after you have recently done something, always check that first.

Yeah, a fair question for sure.

Hopefully automotive engine oil did not cross-contaminate motorcycle stock. Although, I wouldn't expect gears changes getting "stuck", but rather I would expect gears slipping. Interesting.

 

[max]

cbaz if you remove the oil filler plug you can see the clutch plate casette, if you stand on the filler plug side, rotate the handlebars to the left so you can operate the clutch.
My plates move close to 3 mm. and normal control is only about 1.5 mm.
Easy to check with a flashlight and looking at the right angle to see the basket move.
If there is any leakage the basket will slowly retract whilst the clutch handle is kept fully engaged.

When i put my bike in first gear with the engine off the clutch releases about halfway the travel of the handle, just for reference.

Changing the brake fluid in the clutch is not as straight forward in this bike, it needs to be done carefully to prevent air entering the system.
If that happens it needs to be cleared with a vacuum system or similar which can motivate the fluid faster than air bubbles rise in the pipes and expel with the old fluid which do not automatically let the air out to the top unlike the front brakes, once the air is in the lines you have less movement in the slave cylinder.

And just on the off-chance; what oil did you use and have you used it before?

 

[CB1100AZ_imp]

When I changed the oil I used Valvoline 10W-40 motorcycle oil. The bike ran fine after the oil change and was running fine when I parked it 3 months ago.

 

[max]

Great, that eliminates the oil, i don't believe oil goes bad over three months if ever but the question needed to be asked, thanks for the quick and comprehensive reply.

Not sure if a slave cylinder leak could push fluid into the engine oil past the pushrod but if it did the oil will have to be replaced, even twice to prevent serious damage to bearings etc.

If you are going to look at the slave cylinder and replace the fluid if it was me i would push the piston in so as to push out as much old fluid as possible, from memory there is a spring inside the clutch slave cylinder attempting to eliminate any play between the pushrod and clutch basket, just so you are aware of this, cheers.

 

[pekingduck]

The problem with bleeding the clutch hydraulic system is that, compared to a hydraulic brake, there is no real resistance when you pull the lever in.

The clutch slave cylinder is bolted to the left side of the engine, pushes a pushrod through to the clutch on the right side, like most Japanese hydraulic clutches. The slave cylinder can be unbolted at the 3 bolts, and there will be no leakage. If there is an external leak at the slave cylinder, it will not contaminate the engine oil - it will leak into the countershaft cover area.

When bleeding the system, I unbolt the clutch slave cylinder, and use a heavy duty c-clamp or a small vise to provide the resistance needed for bleeding it. That way you can develop that firm lever pressure. If you bleed it this way, and the lever is still mushy, the master cylinder may be leaking internally.

 

[jimgl3_imp]

a mityvac will fix your problem I believe. that's what I use and it is simple, cheap, and really works well! also, since you can't store opened fluid, (some might, but I don't) I run nearly the entire bottle through just to be sure all the air is out...

at $5 a bottle for Honda dot4, I get 2. one for brakes and one for clutch. *** don't think I've ever changed the rear brake fluid... just don't really use that thing. If I ever run off in some grass I may wish I had! LOL!

 

[Houtman_imp]

I use a vacuum bleeder and my air compressor . At Harbor Freight you can get the vacuum bleeders for about $ 30 , also very useful to suck out other fluids .

 

[CB1100AZ_imp]

Thanks guys for the additional information on flushing and bleeding the system. I will try to do it this week. I have a Mityvac so it shouldn't be too difficult. I will let you know if that solves the problem.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Thanks guys for the additional information on flushing and bleeding the system. I will try to do it this week. I have a Mityvac so it shouldn't be too difficult. I will let you know if that solves the problem.

Good luck. Would be inspirational to send a pic of your success on-the-road.

 

[Tev62]

The problem with bleeding the clutch hydraulic system is that, compared to a hydraulic brake, there is no real resistance when you pull the lever in.

The clutch slave cylinder is bolted to the left side of the engine, pushes a pushrod through to the clutch on the right side, like most Japanese hydraulic clutches. The slave cylinder can be unbolted at the 3 bolts, and there will be no leakage. If there is an external leak at the slave cylinder, it will not contaminate the engine oil - it will leak into the countershaft cover area.

When bleeding the system, I unbolt the clutch slave cylinder, and use a heavy duty c-clamp or a small vise to provide the resistance needed for bleeding it. That way you can develop that firm lever pressure. If you bleed it this way, and the lever is still mushy, the master cylinder may be leaking internally.

I don't get what you are saying here. Are you suggesting when bleeding the clutch you are operating the slave cylinder, pushing the rod and overcoming the clutch springs rather than the fluid coming out of the open bleed valve? The clutch springs are the resistance, they would not move in the slightest with an open bleed nipple while pumping the lever. Or have I misunderstood what you are trying to do with something on the master cylinder?