The future of Harley-Davidson

[Houtman_imp]

^ agree with all of that.

M in SC , you are SO right on this .

 

[jimgl3_imp]

I was behind a pickup truck today and noticed the iconic HD decal. It occurred to me that I paid $14K for an HD and they didn't give me one to put on my truck. Those things make people want Harleys. At least they make them think about them. If I owned the company I would be dropping them from B52's like propaganda leaflets.

 

[jimgl3_imp]

actually, I think your statement supports mine. I bought the bike. I'm not buying a decal. The folk that have them either feel it's not enough to ride the bike, or they want someone to think they have one. I don't buy HD gear either. I have mostly Tourmaster stuff. Really good stuff!

 

[LongRanger_imp]

I have no problem with Harley Davidson nor their bikes, though I prefer other styles of bikes better. I'm not even sure their marketing efforts are that distasteful. I'm just turned off by the loud pipe 1%'er "biker" culture that seems to gravity to the brand (for whatever reason). I can't directly pin that on HD, though I do agree they seem to endorse and capitalize on it.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

We all know HD bikes leave the factory that are (generally speaking) DOT certified. Therefore, HD is doing their part responsibly.

In terms of the "1%'er", a perspective seems to suggest more, however, this can also extend to non-HD sportbikes. This suggests the challenge is with the rider/owner - so nothing new there.

I tend to agree that HD commands its large proportion of loud pipe instances. As society gets more compressed and resources more and more constrained, the general public is likely to become less and less tolerant of these immature and selfish behaviours and a breaking point will be tested.

 

[Houtman_imp]

From observing on the BRP I think that close to 90% of the Harleys have pipes FAR too loud . it spoils the serene area .

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

From observing on the BRP I think that close to 90% of the Harleys have pipes FAR too loud . it spoils the serene area .

Yeah, too bad. In the end we are all the same.

A possible difference may be that those most traumatized by inconsiderate riders will be that they will return to haunt those riders out of their waste-of-skin.

- - -

(Halloween is comin' folks!)

 

[Frulk_imp]

I've long held a theory that any Harley thread will eventually shift towards the lifestyle, the riders or the uncorked exhaust. Doesn't matter if it starts out about the metallurgy used in the chrome or the metal flakes in the paint....it WILL eventually bend torwards and ultimately arrive at the lifestyle, the riders or the exhaust. So,...here we are.

My Guzzi has the stock exhaust. The XR1200 has the stock exhaust. The CB has a Yosh pipe currently w/o the sound baffle installed. I should note that while accompanying Django on his transect of southern Utah I had the sound baffle installed. Around town it has a low end grumble and unless I go above 4500 RPM it isn't much louder than stock. It doesn't rattle windows in the AM nor irritate my neighbors.

Enter the Road King I bought about 3 weeks ago with the aftermarket exhaust. Pythons to be exact. Knowledgeable Harley aficionados have assured me they are a really, really good piece of aftermarket kit. My personal opinion is they are oppressively LOUD for the rider (specifically me). I did receive the original exhaust with the bike. After discussing putting the OEM stock exhaust back on with the previous owner I found out its not as simple as putting te OEM's back on. I'm the 3rd owner. The first owner (a mutual friend of mine and owner 2) apparently felt the need to increase the performance of the 88cc motor as he found it lacking for 2 up riding. To that end he had a number of things done to increase the performance. Apparently a complete Harley Screaming Eagle Stage 1 upgrade....pipes, air filter, remapped, and I think a cam(s). Owner two (with many Harleys over the years as well as other makes) said if I put OEM exhaust back on I'd have to remap it to deal with the popping, backfires etc.

Right now when I start the bike in the AM I let it idle in the garage and make it point to slowly exit the neighborhood trying to keep it at the lowest sound signature possible until I'm on the arterial feeder to the two main roads I commute on.

So, this experience with the Road King has let me to an epiphany as it relates to my opinion about the "loud pipes save lives" mantra.

1) You have zero credibility if you spout this mantra and ride with a t-shirt, gloveless and no helmet. ZERO!

2) Riding as I have with these loud pipes for the past three weeks I now consider them one more piece (at least while on the Road King) of my safety equipment along with my helmet, boots, heavy gloves, armored jacket etc. I don't kid myself about the fact that they won't make a difference in the event an oncoming car turns left in front of me unexpectedly because they don't see me. However, there's no doubt you'll know I'm in the proximity of your vehicle or in your blind spot (as I'm coming up to get out of it) or to pass you on the left.

I'm not going out of my way to irritate anyone on purpose with the noise and have already adjusted to the shifting pattern required to keep the noise down as much as possible. I'm also committing to be a little less judgmental of the Harley riders wearing ATGATT with louder than stock pipes. That's in consideration of the fact I'd much rather have a loud Harley on the road with a focused rider than a 17 year old in a sewing machine quiet Honda Accord fixated on his/her cell phone. One might be irritating but the other is potentially deadly. YMMV.

 

[Bheezy27403_imp]

You are correct sir. ANY Harley thread on ANY forum will inevitably end up with this kind of discussion. The stereotypical Harley rider and exhaust noise. And there is a reason for that. It is burned into every rider from those inconsiderate few (many?) that just don't give a darn about anyone else or the overall perception of motorcycling as a whole. It is unfortunate, but, perception is reality.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

I've long held a theory that any Harley thread will eventually shift towards the lifestyle, the riders or the uncorked exhaust. Doesn't matter if it starts out about the metallurgy used in the chrome or the metal flakes in the paint....it WILL eventually bend torwards and ultimately arrive at the lifestyle, the riders or the exhaust. So,...here we are.

My Guzzi has the stock exhaust. The XR1200 has the stock exhaust. The CB has a Yosh pipe currently w/o the sound baffle installed. I should note that while accompanying Django on his transect of southern Utah I had the sound baffle installed. Around town it has a low end grumble and unless I go above 4500 RPM it isn't much louder than stock. It doesn't rattle windows in the AM nor irritate my neighbors.

Enter the Road King I bought about 3 weeks ago with the aftermarket exhaust. Pythons to be exact. Knowledgeable Harley aficionados have assured me they are a really, really good piece of aftermarket kit. My personal opinion is they are oppressively LOUD for the rider (specifically me). I did receive the original exhaust with the bike. After discussing putting the OEM stock exhaust back on with the previous owner I found out its not as simple as putting te OEM's back on. I'm the 3rd owner. The first owner (a mutual friend of mine and owner 2) apparently felt the need to increase the performance of the 88cc motor as he found it lacking for 2 up riding. To that end he had a number of things done to increase the performance. Apparently a complete Harley Screaming Eagle Stage 1 upgrade....pipes, air filter, remapped, and I think a cam(s). Owner two (with many Harleys over the years as well as other makes) said if I put OEM exhaust back on I'd have to remap it to deal with the popping, backfires etc.

Right now when I start the bike in the AM I let it idle in the garage and make it point to slowly exit the neighborhood trying to keep it at the lowest sound signature possible until I'm on the arterial feeder to the two main roads I commute on.

So, this experience with the Road King has let me to an epiphany as it relates to my opinion about the "loud pipes save lives" mantra.

1) You have zero credibility if you spout this mantra and ride with a t-shirt, gloveless and no helmet. ZERO!

2) Riding as I have with these loud pipes for the past three weeks I now consider them one more piece (at least while on the Road King) of my safety equipment along with my helmet, boots, heavy gloves, armored jacket etc. I don't kid myself about the fact that they won't make a difference in the event an oncoming car turns left in front of me unexpectedly because they don't see me. However, there's no doubt you'll know I'm in the proximity of your vehicle or in your blind spot (as I'm coming up to get out of it) or to pass you on the left.

I'm not going out of my way to irritate anyone on purpose with the noise and have already adjusted to the shifting pattern required to keep the noise down as much as possible. I'm also committing to be a little less judgmental of the Harley riders wearing ATGATT with louder than stock pipes. That's in consideration of the fact I'd much rather have a loud Harley on the road with a focused rider than a 17 year old in a sewing machine quiet Honda Accord fixated on his/her cell phone. One might be irritating but the other is potentially deadly. YMMV.

You are correct sir. ANY Harley thread on ANY forum will inevitably end up with this kind of discussion. The stereotypical Harley rider and exhaust noise. And there is a reason for that. It is burned into every rider from those inconsiderate few (many?) that just don't give a darn about anyone else or the overall perception of motorcycling as a whole. It is unfortunate, but, perception is reality.

Has anyone seen a pink CB1100 yet?


... oh, look over there ... a bird!

 

[peterbaron]

I didn't really want to respond to this thread, since I've never like HD at all...but I like their shinny chrome parts and I have respect for the owners loving their horses, same as I do mine.
When I park my CB, I see some HD riders secretly looking at my Honda, some with more courage will come closer and have friendly chat, asking what year it is..., you know...
When I ran out of gas, HD were the ones, who made a U-turn on a freeway and supplied a gallon, so I could continue my first long distance journey to Nova Scotia.
In MHO, most do a local ride, short distance, or carry their machines by truck..
Wish them well....

 

[Nortoon_imp]

I ride on weekdays, so the Harley riders I meet are retired experienced bikers. They are not the loud pipe look-at-me type, or one of the sheep plastered with Harley logos in the large Sunday clubs. Since my hair is silver and gray, they realize I am a also a mature rider. My well weatherworn brown leather jacket also lets then know I have a lot of miles in the saddle.

They are out there for the same reason I am, to enjoy the ride on quiet scenic roads well away from the city. Like me most of them ride alone, although I have met small groups of friends.

They are always curious about the CB and are complementary about its retro look. I respond in kind, particularly for those with older well cared for Road Kings. There is never a comparison of bikes. At our age we know you are riding is what you like, and nobody is going to convince you otherwise.

 

[Stichill]

https://in.reuters.com/article/us-h...t-plan-raises-earnings-concerns-idINKBN1W91ZN

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

+$275M USD capital spending per year:

Offer up a:

* HD single or twin cylinder scooter that ...
* Does not leak anything,
* Starts up every time,
* Is fuel efficient,
* Runs on regular octane gasoline,
* Vibration levels that are competitive (lower the better),
* Is usable for occasional freeway stints,
* Has some practical storage,
* Can be used on all four seasons with
* Some supporting aftermarket options for the buyer,
* Can be configured for some sort of offroad use,
* Is durable and looks "Harley cool" like no other scooter ever conceived,
* Has a price tag that is not outrageously out-of-reach compared to competitive "top-shelf" offerings.

Who can do that with that kind of extra annual capital?

Yes, other unrelated projects can also be done out of the same capital.

- - -

Even Honda found areas of optimization by sourcing their scooter engine production out of Italy - scooter mecca.

https://in.reuters.com/article/us-h...t-plan-raises-earnings-concerns-idINKBN1W91ZN

 

[NovaCB1100_imp]

maybe, but that was the golden opportunity for them to turn it around around '12 when he 'retired'. My guess is that since he's still around and carries power, not much was changed in the board room for the past 7 years regarding approach. Typical corporate actions (understandable) but it will be their demise. Too little for too much too late. case in point where they should have been ahead of this: Zero Motorcycles says it's ready to take on Harley-Davidson with new electric bikes

My friend Dan has one of the new zero's, its identical to the baby blue one in the article, and its flat out impressive. And was about half the money of the livewire msrp out the door when he bought 6? weeks ago. I think harley needs to get the pricing down to reality, people are asking 'what am i really getting for 'x' amount? ' thats mostly what i hear at bike nights, etc when this comes up for the conventional or electric HD models.

The 'culture' they sold had a lifespan, they should have seen that coming (with all the research they should have been doing on their market), and that culture is dying out.

Not to hijack the thread, but the Zero Dealer near me had a demo day and I rode the SR/F; 110hp, 140 TQ. No clutch or gears, just twist to go, reverse to slow. Extremely well balanced, handles like my Ducati and brakes are really good. Ran through all of the riding modes, ECO, Street and Sport, and the whole experience was very user friendly.

I've never rode an electric bike before, so it was quite odd to hear nothing except for the wind. The only noise it makes is when you're slowing down, you can hear the "WHIRR" of the electric motor. But when you twist the throttle, HOLD ON, because mother of all things holy, this thing takes off like a rocket. A quick flick and you can go from 40 mph to well over triple digits and then right back to 40 mph.

Can't say what the Livewire experience will be like, but it would have to be A LOT better than the Zero to justify the price difference. And I think it would be very difficult to top the SR/F especially when you can get it for circa 20k.

 

[the Ferret]

That Zero looks a lot better than the one I tested. Well maybe not better, more modern. It was a great experience. First stop I came to I thought the thing died lol, but I twisted the throttle and off it went. I thought the suspension on the one I rode was board stiff, other than that it was a great ride. Too bad they are so expensive. At $6-8k it would be a fun toy.

 

[NovaCB1100_imp]

That Zero looks a lot better than the one I tested. Well maybe not better, more modern. It was a great experience. First stop I came to I thought the thing died lol, but I twisted the throttle and off it went. I thought the suspension on the one I rode was board stiff, other than that it was a great ride. Too bad they are so expensive. At $6-8k it would be a fun toy.

The Zero rep I spoke with told me the company is committed to making great motorcycles, that are "also electric" which is pretty evident with the RS/F at least. It looks and feels like a great bike and happens to be electric. The USD forks and trellis style frame kind of make it look like a Monster or Streetfighter, and TBH it's looks are what piqued my interest first.

It's an absolute blast to ride! I'm just not quite there yet on going electric as my only bike....which is actually the crux of the issue for HD on the Livewire as well. If HD is really committed to diversifying their product lines they will have to face a few realities such as a decrease in ridership as we know it (although female ridership is actually increasing, which is good) and how to evolve an image they have actively cultivated into what that will look like in the future. I'm not sure if they can do it, but I hope so.

FWIW, I grew up steeped in HD everywhere and my folks still ride Harleys, as do all of their friends. I even worked in a HD shop over a few summers and wrenched on them as an apprentice, but I never got the bug. I always preferred Triumphs, Nortons, Ducatis, and of course Hondas!

 

[peterbaron]

Today, while driving with my son, we took a pic of white, nice, sleek and simple HD.
Can someone identify it, please.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

In terms of location, I'd say based on the building it is somewhere in godforsaken Brampton, Ontario. Steeles sign helps a bit too.

RE HD: Too bad, all that HD and yet, running shoes.

 

[peterbaron]

GO: correct

mis: this one is sleek, compared to others bumpy