Suspension mods started

[ohiorider_imp]

Installed IKON shocks (7610-1507-SP17) with lighter (Code 215) springs. To date, I've ridden approx. 150 miles with the new shocks. Rear end feels much more compliant. Preload and rebound damping on lightest settings at this time, but think I'll need to dial in a bit more damping. Still to do ..... the Traxxion Dynamics fork kit. A bit more work than simply changing the rear shocks, but I'll get it done.

 

[4 Paws_imp]

Please post updates, quite interested in your observations. Why those shocks and that weight?

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

I'd be interested in the choice of fork upgrade. Do you ride aggressively and want a firmer front end?


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[ohiorider_imp]

Please post updates, quite interested in your observations. Why those shocks and that weight?

My choice to select the lighter springs was to first give them a try. I don't often ride double, and I weigh 160 pounds. The stock rear shocks felt like my weight didn't even begin to compress the springs. Ikon indicated they would replace the light springs with a heavier set for a very modest price, if I found the light springs too light, so that's the reason for initially going with the lighter springs.

Re why these shocks, the price wasn't too bad, they had four rebound damping rates, they are rebuildable, and they could be ordered to cosmetically look much like the OEM shocks. Plus, dealing with Ikon USA on the phone was a good experience.

Bob

Here's a quick update. Today was the first ride when I thought I'd reset the rebound damping rate from light to heavier, after experiencing a higher kickback than expected. So I set them at 1.5 instead of 2, 3, or 4. Since I noticed the rebound was somewhat harsh, I contacted Ikon USA and asked if the shocks had several positions between 1 and 4. Answer was 'no,' the rod I turned when changing from lighter to heavier rebound damping contains 4 orifices of varying size. Setting the rebound at, for example, 1.5, does not align an orifice where it needs to be. It needs to be rotated to 1, 2, 3, or 4. Makes sense.

I'd be interested in the choice of fork upgrade. Do you ride aggressively and want a firmer front end?


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No, I am not an aggressive rider. I've ridden for years on older Beemers with extremely soft suspension. What I'm shooting for is suspension that lets me ride my CB solo over less than perfect road surfaces, but with a feel more like a cartridge fork vs damper tube. I asked Traxxion Dynamics to supply a fork kit that would (a) accommodate my weight, (b) type of riding, and © my suspension goal, ie compliant over less-than-perfect road surfaces. The Traxxion Dynamics kit comes with RaceTech Gold valves that should be an improvement over the stock damper rods. Not looking for firmer, but for more compliant suspension over a variety of road surfaces. Guess I've ridden and adapted to Beemer soft suspension over the years. I think the Germans called the older airhead a 'gummikuh' or rubber cow.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

[/QUOTE]What I'm shooting for is suspension that lets me ride my CB solo over less than perfect road surfaces, but with a feel more like a cartridge fork vs damper tube. Not looking for firmer, but for more compliant
[/QUOTE]

I hope they are able to provide that- but based on what I have read, that kit tends to be more firm and sporty- which is a big part of my reason to buy the '17 Showa SDBV forks instead.





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[ohiorider_imp]

What I'm shooting for is suspension that lets me ride my CB solo over less than perfect road surfaces, but with a feel more like a cartridge fork vs damper tube. Not looking for firmer, but for more compliant.
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[/QUOTE] I hope they are able to provide that- but based on what I have read, that kit tends to be more firm and sporty- which is a big part of my reason to buy the '17 Showa SDBV forks instead.
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Lets hope they gave me the straight scoop. I think they did. I can definitely say that the Ikons have improved the rear suspension of the bike (for my purposes.) When I talked with Traxxion Dynamics, they wanted to know my goal (more compliant suspension over a variety of road surfaces.) Wanted my weight. Wanted to know if I used the bike solo or with passenger (answer = solo.) No part of my discussion with them indicated I wanted more sporty suspension. I think they understood what I wanted. I'll know once the kit is installed. As you know, Traxxion Dynamics can supply a variety of fork springs, and the RaceTech valves can be tuned for a variety of uses.





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[/QUOTE]

 

[alprider]

i dont know...a enduro like the GS from BMW has extra long suspension-way....bcos this its too comfortable on bad streets.....and /but specaly soft on normal streets.....

Adjustable pull and pressure stage/ rebound damping rate from the suspension is a other story...every kind street needs a own adjustment if you want it still optimal , ask a racing driver....

 

[alprider]

and simple progressive suspensions are not that much flexible with adjustment

 

[ohiorider_imp]

and simple progressive suspensions are not that much flexible with adjustment

Actually, the springs with the Traxxion Dynamics kit aren't progressive, but as I understand it, a straight rate spring, ie, not wrapped to act as a progressive spring. If you question my assessment of the Traxxion kit, maybe someone from their company can chime in and describe the kit, vs me paraphrasing what I think I heard. I'll ask the next time I talk with them.

 

[jedd_imp]

i dont know...a enduro like the GS from BMW has extra long suspension-way....bcos this its too comfortable on bad streets.....and /but specaly soft on normal streets.....

Adjustable pull and pressure stage/ rebound damping rate from the suspension is a other story...every kind street needs a own adjustment if you want it still optimal , ask a racing driver....

can you give us an example of :
Adjustable pull and pressure stage/ rebound damping rate from the suspension...

it's hard to understand what you posted above...

 

[TINK_imp]

ohiorider,

I put Ikon rear shocks on my 2014 Deluxe. Love them.
Not sure what spring rate they are (bought them used from a CB1100 Forum member) but they seem to work for my 200+ lbs.

I put Race Tech (linear wound) springs and a lighter weight oil in forks. Much improved over OEM.
Did not do any dampening mods on the forks, e.g. Gold Valves, just the oil weight change.

Some photos of my fork rebuild: http://www.photosbytink.com/cb1100forksprings/

TINK

 

[ohiorider_imp]

ohiorider,

I put Ikon rear shocks on my 2014 Deluxe. Love them.
Not sure what spring rate they are (bought them used from a CB1100 Forum member) but they seem to work for my 200+ lbs.

I put Race Tech (linear wound) springs and a lighter weight oil in forks. Much improved over OEM.
Did not do any dampening mods on the forks, e.g. Gold Valves, just the oil weight change.

Some photos of my fork rebuild: http://www.photosbytink.com/cb1100forksprings/

TINK

Tink, I haven't installed the Traxxion Dynamics fork kit yet. Thanks for the very informative info re you installation. A good time to install the gaitors!

I am putting some miles on the CB, now that I've installed the Ikons.

Bob

 

[TINK_imp]

[/QUOTE]
...A good time to install the gaitors!

[/QUOTE]

Be sure to buy the high quality 2001-2002 W650 Kawasaki gaiters, 49006-1335.
I put cheap gaiters on at first, six months later they were trashed.

 

[venturer434_imp]

Tink,

Great Pictures with brief write up, I am sure it will help the forum members... Hope you are enjoying your mod..

 

[spacetiger_imp]

Ohiorider,

Good on you to have posted the results of your project.

Tink, on your observation on the springs, I would say each oem spring is a 2 rate spring - but the rates are different from left and right side. So, overall there are 4 different rates involved. You can see this by the spacing between coil winding; there are 4 different size gaps. 2 gap sizes in the left and 2 in the right spring (the bottom and top of each spring has different gap sizes). When you put the 2 spring curves together, you get a 4 slope spring curve. On the Racetech rating of the oem spring, I have found they use an average value of a 2 rate spring, so a 0.75 Kg/mm would tell you probably have a 0.5 Kg/mm initial rate and 1.0 Kg/mm (or something like that).

I did not see any mention of the oem oil fill amount. I suspect the left fork takes less oil than the right. You can see this as the left fork has the longer spring, so the volume the spring takes up will leave less remaining volume to set the air volume to a target amount. The right fork has a shorter spring, so less spring volume means the oil level will be higher than the left fork. By swapping to the RT springs, the spring volume will be equal on both sides so the oil fill will be the same (?), likely to be closer to the oil fill level on the right side. The oil fill level sets the volume of the air chamber creating an air spring that adds to the steel spring rates. I'd guess the total net spring curve (steel and air) is a nice smooth[er] progressive (2nd order polynomial curve) rate set up vs a historical steeper rate in the last 1-2" of suspension compression for typical Honda damper rod oem setups.

Ohiorider - Did you go with RT GVE's since you had the fork open?

Jerry

 

[ohiorider_imp]

Jerry - I haven't yet installed the fork kit. I believe your abbreviation (RT GVE) is shorthand for RaceTech Gold Valve Emulators. I think I can install the kit without separating the fork stantions from the fork sliders. Here's a copy and paste from the Traxxion Dynamics invoice for the kit, which retails for $300.00.

Year, Make, Model: 2014 Honda CB1100 (standard)
Rider/Passenger Weight: 165 -170 lbs.
Track, Street, Touring: street/light touring looking for plush ride
FRP-TDR-S2-K Fork Valve Kit and Springs for '09 Showa 41 mm

Kit consists of:
- springs
- spacers
- new damper rods drilled to accommodate Race Tech emulators (Gold Valves)
- RaceTech Gold valves adjusted by Traxxion Dynamics for my weight and type of riding.

I want to contact Dan at Traxxion Dynamics prior to installation to confirm fork oil weight, oil distance from top of fork, and that a sticker on the RT valves indicate they've been adjusted for my weight and riding preference.

Bob

 

[spacetiger_imp]

Most excellent then.

I am curious about the new bending fork damping setup which should be on the 2017 model. The way it is described it makes me think of a RaceTech Gold Valve Emulators (RT GVE). That is, it is a different way to get better damping short of going with a cartridge set up. It should be cheaper for them, better for the rider that might otherwise get a damper rod suspension.

Perhaps I will one day get a 2017 CB1100 and findout vs just another lurker on the site

Jerry

 

[ohiorider_imp]

Getting closer to getting the front fork modified. I have the Traxxion Dynamics kit.

I stopped by one of my favorite small bike shops, and talked with Perry, head mechanic who I would trust with anything made in Japan. Perry builds and races turbo drag bikes based on Kaw KZ engines (formerly) and lately Suzuki engines.

I'm going to pull the forks and take them to their shop to have the kit installed. He (Perry) suggested as a safeguard, to have a new fork seal kit available.

So, in about 2 weeks, my 2014 CB1100 should be rolling on:
- Ikon rear shocks with light springs, 3 or 4 preload positions, and 4 rebound damping settings.
- Front fork with Traxxion Dynamics kit, based on Race Tech Gold emulators.

I think I may be getting used to the 4 cylinder turbine feel, after years of riding vertical and v twins. At first I missed the 2 cylinder throb, but think I may get used to (and actually enjoy) the sound and feel of a wonderful Japanese 4 cyl dohc engine that belts out low-end torque.

Bob

 

[4 Paws_imp]

Traxion builds excellent stuff! Keep us informed.

 

[ohiorider_imp]

Traxion builds excellent stuff! Keep us informed.

A good riding buddy and I removed the forks this morning. Once the Honda fork seals and wipers arrive, the fork legs are off to to my independent dealer to have the kit installed. I could probably install it, but even after doing engine top end work, pulling trannys, etc, I've never replaced fork seals. So, for approx. an hour' labor, I'll have someone install the kit who has probably rebuild several hundred forks over the past 30 years.

I hope all this expense works to make the bike more rideable for me. The Ikon shocks are a wonderful improvement for my 160# weight, and from what I've read, the Traxxion Dynamics kit is a good modification.

I'd like to do pics ..... but I may have to drop a series of pix in a Photobucket folder, and post the link, since PB no longer permits inserting an IMG file into a doc (unless one want to pay them a king's ransom.)

Bob