Squelch the Squeek

[Whoops]

In the latest episode of my attempts to Squelch the Squeek, I put a pack of adhesive shims on the original Honda factory pads that I removed in my first attempt to cure the problem.

Original factory front brake pads, cleaned and ready to go.
[attachment=191]

Calipers dismounted and cleaned to almost new!
[attachment=192]

Adhesive brake pad shims, 4 per pack.
[attachment=193]

Shims applied and cut to fit with a sharp knife.
[attachment=194]

After putting the pads and springs back in the calipers with some fresh new 3M silicone on the slide bolts, I pumped the brakes a bit to move the pistons back out and was ready to give them a test ride.

I took the bike on a ride up a local canyon and was very ginger with braking initially since these pads definitely aren't properly seated any longer. After running the pads gently for a while, I rode them in pretty hard coming back down the canyon. The squeal reduction with this attempt has turned out to be more effective than any other attempt I have made to date using all manner of goops, greases and pads. 

However, I do note that while pushing the bike in the garage after getting back from my ride, the brakes seem to be dragging a bit. Not enough to make pushing the bike difficult, just enough to make a sound. I suspect that the thickness of the 4 shims combined with a set of pads that have barely any miles on them has made the brake fluid reservoir a tad too full. Since I am due for my annual fluid change, I picked up some Pro Honda DOT4 and will flush the lines and return the fluid to the proper levels and see if that remedies the minor drag issue.

 

[pdedse]

Very interesting, Whoops. I've given up on finding a fix and have come to terms with the squeal, even though it's a constant reminder of the "squeal like a pig" scene from Deliverance.  If you've seeen the movie, you know.  If you haven't...do not google that scene.  Don't.

Will be interested to hear how it turns out after you change out the fluid.

 

[MagnaRider]

Great, now I will think of that scene every time I use my front brakes!
Honestly great movie, but one I try not to think of that often

 

[peterbaron]

In the latest episode of my attempts to Squelch the Squeek, I put a pack of adhesive shims on the original Honda factory pads that I removed in my first attempt to cure the problem.
Original factory front brake pads, cleaned and ready to go.
Calipers dismounted and cleaned to almost new!
Adhesive brake pad shims, 4 per pack.
Shims applied and cut to fit with a sharp knife.
After putting the pads and springs back in the calipers with some fresh new 3M silicone on the slide bolts, I pumped the brakes a bit to move the pistons back out and was ready to give them a test ride.
I took the bike on a ride up a local canyon and was very ginger with braking initially since these pads definitely aren't properly seated any longer. After running the pads gently for a while, I rode them in pretty hard coming back down the canyon. The squeal reduction with this attempt has turned out to be more effective than any other attempt I have made to date using all manner of goops, greases and pads. 
However, I do note that while pushing the bike in the garage after getting back from my ride, the brakes seem to be dragging a bit. Not enough to make pushing the bike difficult, just enough to make a sound. I suspect that the thickness of the 4 shims combined with a set of pads that have barely any miles on them has made the brake fluid reservoir a tad too full. Since I am due for my annual fluid change, I picked up some Pro Honda DOT4 and will flush the lines and return the fluid to the proper levels and see if that remedies the minor drag issue.

Theoretically possible, but less likely.

Most likely, homemade shims "ate" all the necessary clearance between the pads and rotors, causing the brakes to bind.

*First of all, without touching the front brake lever slide a thin sheet of notepad paper between all the pads and rotors....to check the clearance
*While still on a center stand, check that the front wheel can turn freely without any force or resistance...
*Open the brake reservoir cap, press the front brake lever a few times and check if there is any improvement.

 

[max]

Hi all, Whoops there is a chance that adding all those pads makes the shims a bit " springy " and cause the pads themselves not to retract the tiny amount to clear the rotors as Peter mentions.
This could be a bit of a problem if they drag and heat up some, just be aware of this but good to hear the progress, seems you are on the case!

Never gave this a thought but; what keeps the pads in place, is it solely the pins or do they use a part of the caliper as well to transfer the brake force to the caliper housing and keep them aligned?

Very nice photo's by the way!

Power of dreams eh? nice touch!

 

[Whoops]

Theoretically possible, but less likely.

Most likely, homemade shims "ate" all the necessary clearance between the pads and rotors, causing the brakes to bind.

*First of all, without touching the front brake lever slide a thin sheet of notepad paper between all the pads and rotors....to check the clearance
*While still on a center stand, check that the front wheel can turn freely without any force or resistance...
*Open the brake reservoir cap, press the front brake lever a few times and check if there is any improvement.

Was going to make a joint reply to you and Max, but the reply window doesn't seem to work like the old forum and I can't seem to link to a post number...

I can't slip a piece of paper between them, so they are definitely touching the rotors with the shims installed.
I can turn the front wheel on the stand without much effort, however the drag is creating enough resistance that the wheel doesn't continue to spin freely like it does on my Africa Twin, for example.
I will be changing brake fluid today and give that a try to see if it is actually over-full/over-pressured. I didn't attempt this yet until I am all setup to change fluid with the 60 or so towels I need to prevent damaging the paint with my klutzy hands.

Hi all, Whoops there is a chance that adding all those pads makes the shims a bit " springy " and cause the pads themselves not to retract the tiny amount to clear the rotors as Peter mentions.
This could be a bit of a problem if they drag and heat up some, just be aware of this but good to hear the progress, seems you are on the case!
Never gave this a thought but; what keeps the pads in place, is it solely the pins or do they use a part of the caliper as well to transfer the brake force to the caliper housing and keep them aligned?
Very nice photo's by the way!
Power of dreams eh? nice touch!

I can guess you might be right as to the "springy" behaviour as the pads seem to consist of a woven mesh of synthetic, plastic-like fabric covered by a bit of a gummy rubber coating. Then the side that adheres to the back of the pad has an adhesive.

So far as the pads go, it appears to me that they hang soley on the pins and then only contact the retention clips along the top edge of the pads, as well as the open ends of the cylinders when applying pressure to the brakes. I wish I could fully know where the squeek is originating from so I can address that specifically. Like others have mentioned, it only seems to happen when you are going slowly just before you come to a complete stop, at about 5-8 mph I would guess. My thoughts are that the pads are actually chattering against the rotors creating a bit of a harmonic vibration rather than a squeek of metal on metal like you would hear in a car when the wear indicator drags on the rotor.

My next attempt was going to be trying some organic pads, but I can't seem to find a set that fits the 2017 EX.

 

[Whoops]

Very interesting, Whoops. I've given up on finding a fix and have come to terms with the squeal, even though it's a constant reminder of the "squeal like a pig" scene from Deliverance.  If you've seeen the movie, you know.  If you haven't...do not google that scene.  Don't.

Will be interested to hear how it turns out after you change out the fluid.

*shudders*

Not a movie scene I cared to recall, thanks. :hilarious:

 

[Inhouse Bob]

When dealing with odd noises and other idiosyncrasies on vehicles, if I can't fix it it becomes a feature rather than a defect.

 

[Whoops]

So I changed the brake and clutch fluids this morning and it made no difference. As Max and PB suggested, I do believe the softer texture of the SBS shims was compressing a bit on activating the lever, but then sprining back when the lever was released putting constant pressure on the pads to contact the rotors, like a really thin peice of foam. Off they came and back to the other set of Honda pads after cleaning everything up again.

This time however, I did look for anywhere on the pads, retention clip and calipers where the pads could be rubbing anything except the rotors and slide bolts. Then I took some Permatex green brake grease and used a q-tip like a tiny mop and coated the pistons where the touch the pads, the pads where the pistons touch, the slide bolts of course, where the bolts contact the retention clip, where the clip touches the top of the pad backing, and even what appears to be a bit of area on both sides of the pads where it looks like there might be a slight bit of rubbing on the calipers.

I think if this doesn't make a difference, the only thing I have left to try is a different pad composition. I would like to try a set of organic front pads, but it seems all I can find for the front is semi-sintered, full sintered HH or ceramic composites. Looking at the price of one rotor (over $500), I am not real eager to try pads that put more wear on the rotors. Anyone know who might make a set of organic front pads for a 2017 EX?

 

[Cormanus]

Whoops, Metal Gear is a local manufacturer of brake pads, discs, etc. I've used their pads and been pretty happy. I couldn't see that they sold organic pads for the 2017, but you could ask. https://www.metalgear.com.au/

 

[pdedse]

I think if this doesn't make a difference, the only thing I have left to try is a different pad composition. ...

or these

 

[Whoops]

I think if this doesn't make a difference, the only thing I have left to try is a different pad composition. ...

or these

But what if I already wear those?
:hilarious:

 

[max]

Whoops i'm probably wrong but looking at your second picture with the underside of the calipers it seems that there are wearmarks on one surface  ( the left part ) of the caliper.
The right hand one seems a bit recessed in such a way that that pad may not be supported?

The CB1100 Community Forum



Not sure if there is enough space to put some of that shim on those load bearing surfaces and see if there is a difference.

Just one of those wild ideas that emerge from my subconscious mind.

 

[rdprdp01]

I have absolutely no squeal. I may just be incredibly lucky. 

For what it is worth:

I purchase only OEM pads and install them exactly as detailed in my Honda 2017 CB1100EX service manual.
I use a great torque wrench to make sure everything is in compliance with Honda’s recommended torque.
I clean the brake pads and rotors as part of my weekly bike detailing protocols. I use solvents recommended by Honda.
I always apply the back brake first and then the front.
I have a fork stabilizer on the front which definitely balances out weight in all scenarios.

I welcome any feedback you care to share if you believe any of these items actually help reduce brake squeal. 

David

 

[Whoops]

Whoops i'm probably wrong but looking at your second picture with the underside of the calipers it seems that there are wearmarks on one surface  ( the left part ) of the caliper.
The right hand one seems a bit recessed in such a way that that pad may not be supported?

The CB1100 Community Forum



Not sure if there is enough space to put some of that shim on those load bearing surfaces and see if there is a difference.

Just one of those wild ideas that emerge from my subconscious mind.

I saw those areas where it appears it was making contact. I did apply some grease there, but the shims are used up so hopefully grease will make due.

 

[peterbaron]

I always wear earplugs when riding and keep my hearing aids in a small box.

I never heard any noise, but I can feel my bike perfectly.

 

[pdedse]

I have absolutely no squeal. I may just be incredibly lucky. 

...
I have a fork stabilizer on the front which definitely balances out weight in all scenarios.

I welcome any feedback you care to share if you believe any of these items actually help reduce brake squeal. 

David

I'm curious about the effect a fork stabilizer could have.  Did you put it on at the time you bought the bike?

 

[rdprdp01]

I have absolutely no squeal. I may just be incredibly lucky. 

...
I have a fork stabilizer on the front which definitely balances out weight in all scenarios.

I welcome any feedback you care to share if you believe any of these items actually help reduce brake squeal. 

David

I'm curious about the effect a fork stabilizer could have.  Did you put it on at the time you bought the bike?

The fork stabilizer was on the motorcycle when I purchased it. I did remove it to see if I could tell a difference, which was detectable. After I cleaned it, I reinstalled it and do not believe I will ever ride without it. It improves handling at all speeds, but particularly at slower speeds or when stopping. It “firms” everything up and for lack of a better description, lets me feel more connected to the front tire. I assume that stability has an indirect impact on braking, too. That said, I am not sure if my maintenance practices, Honda engineering, or just plain luck has enabled me to avoid the squeal endured by so many Members. 

During my research prior to purchasing the motorcycle, I ran across an article which described the difference in forks between the CB1100EX and previous models. Here is a link:

2017 Honda CB1100 EX: Smooth Ride From New Front Fork « MotorcycleDaily.com – Motorcycle News, Editorials, Product Reviews and Bike Reviews

I have everything setup in a “neutral” riding position. I do lean slightly toward the front of the motorcycle. I am not sure if having my weight more evenly distributed over the motorcycle makes a difference or not. 

Hope this helps. David

 

[Cormanus]

The 2017 brakes have squealed through history ... The CB1100 Community Forum

 

[rdprdp01]

The 2017 brakes have squealed through history ... The CB1100 Community Forum

Copy that. For the first time, I find myself actually lucky.  :hilarious: I hope I continue to remain squeal-less.