Setting up your suspension

[spacetiger_imp]

Okay, this is going to be team effort. The first person to join in will be the first person we'll walk through the process. We'll keep things simple and not try to swap out pieces, but you have to be willing to turn a wrench and post pics so all can follow.

We'll do the front suspension then rear.

Some baseline info:
- 2014 weight: 540 lbs wet
- front suspension travel: 4.2"
- rear suspension travel: 4.5" (this is not the same as shock working range, it is the range of motion of the swing arm as measured at the axle, limited by the range of motion of the shock)

So who is first?

Jerry

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

I did have a look at it in this thread.

I am sure it can be built upon.

Cheers

 

[dsan1964_imp]

I am approx, 240#s I have the front forks adjusted as firm as they go....I am looking at other threads as far as fork springs/ swap out... Rear in the middle adjustment may try one more click firmer. I have been also doing reading on different shocks...I just ordered the comet 2... So suspension in on the list.. Also have stock luggage rack to put on...


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[spacetiger_imp]

dsan - the first brave soul to volunteer.... Lets take it front first and rear second.

You have to tell us what year/model bike you have. Do you have a center stand?

What have you done so far to the front? You say you have adjusted them as firm as you can go, can you explain more by what you mean? Do you have any zipties on the front fork to help measure how much of the front suspension you are using?

The first step in setting up the suspension for you is getting a baseline, so lots of questions to figure out whats working and what can be adjusted BEFORE we start making adjustments/changes.

Awaiting your responses...

Jerry

 

[Carguy1959_imp]

Great thread Petro. Explained a lot. Spacetiger, I have a 14 STD with a Windjammer, lowers included. My preload seems fine. I have added some cheap rear shocks to lower the rear. They seem to work ok. My main concern is when I am on the Hwy doing 80 mph, I get a bit of wind buffering which effects the hole bike. That being the windjammer mounts to the frame verses the forks. What I am wondering is if I can adjust the suspension to smooth it out a bit? On a side note, I bought a 09 Harley FXDL spring of 2012. First bike in 25 years. Loved that bike, I traded it Aug 2015 for my CB.
Thanks

 

[dsan1964_imp]

CB 1100 14 standard I can tell I am using most of the suspension ...no zip ties. But good idea.. I just see dust marks...


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Yes on center stand .


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[spacetiger_imp]

Carguy, a few questions and comments.

For the front suspension (and rear), I worry about 2 things relative to the spring. 1. Can I set my sag in an acceptable range and 2. how am I doing on the top end (am I bottoming out)? With the windjammer, you have added more weight to the front + you did not indicate your weight. I don't know how to guide you without some info. Can you add a ziptie to the front left fork and get some baseline info?

Adding the zip tie: In this pic, you can see the addition of the ziptie. I push it all the way down against the fork lower. As the fork compresses, it will push the ziptie up and you can see how much of the suspension you use. You will also note I added some electrical tape at the top of the fork. This tells me how close I am to bottoming out. The easiest way to figure out where to place the tape is to lift the front wheel off the ground to relieve any load on the front suspension. Then, measure 4.2" up and place the tape around the fork - make sure you add a little room for the ziptie.



When you are checking free (bike) sag or rider sag, the ziptie makes it easy. Note, to get the free or bike sag, you will have to lift the front wheel off the ground. You need this info to work out the weight on the front suspension. Once you have done this, can you report back your measurements?

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/Sportster/Testing%20114_zpswszoz7cr.jpg.html]

For the rear, we will be doing the same thing but using a nylon washer you can get at Home Depot or Lowes (see pic 1 above). We'll slip that on the rear shock to check bike sag and rider sag. Here is a pic of where you place the nylon washer on the shock. You measure the distances the same as the ziptie on the front.

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/Testing%2063_zpsz0ik8ff1.jpg.html]

As to the wind buffering, I'd say you don't have the suspension sorted out properly. So there is a bit of work to get done but I am confident having done so your challenge will be gone. I had a 1976 CB550 with a windjammer back in the day and didn't have the problem you are describing.

On the [cheap] rear shock that you put on to lower the rear, that may be the significant source of the problem. The bike was designed with a rake (angle) and trail (distance) to perform a certain way. You can change the relative rake angle and trail in good ways if you know how to do this or in a bad way if you do not realize what you are doing. The short shock is bad and probably doesn't have strong enough springs to hold up its end of the rear suspension, so your rear is way too low. This is not a good thing as it messes up your steering geometry.

Lets get your front sorted out (up I suspect) first, then we'll tackle the rear.

You have some homework with zipties awaiting. Pics are good to, so don't be shy on posting some.

Jerry

A few words on geometry. A few years ago, I completed a project with a CB700SC Nighthawk where I changed a number of things on the bike to make it a modern retro kind of Bike. One of the things I had to be mindful of was changing the geometry of the bike (rake and trail). I collected a lot of data one modern bikes, 2011-2014 to help guide me in the changes I was planning on making. Here is the graphic of that data with the CB1100 in it. You can see the Honda designers gave it some safe numbers (27 degrees and 4.4" trail) relative to the other naked bikes (black dots). The spot guys are the red dots, the cruisers are the magenta dots. As you make changes to your Cb1100, you need to know whats that going to do to your geometry so you don't go to far in an unsafe directions - note the design limits ("V" shape) the manufactures stay within.

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/CB1100/3.%20%201%20%20geometry_zps8wohrsyl.jpg.html]

My finished Nighthawk (modern 17" wheels/radials, big brakes, and modern F/R suspensions); if you look close enough you can see my electrical tape and black ziptie!

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/Honda%20CB700SC/pic%20for%20internet_zpsmovjatwv.jpg.html]

CB 1100 14 standard I can tell I am using most of the suspension ...no zip ties. But good idea.. I just see dust marks...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes on center stand .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

dsan,

How do you know you are using most of the front suspension? It has been my experience you can only tell when you bottom out but not that you can "almost bottom out" - unless you use zipties that record the max suspension use.

As we are dialing in your front suspension, I need to know if you ride solo or 2 up. It makes a difference in how you dial in you front suspension as the stock front end does not have preload adjustability.

Awaiting your ziptie data. Also, excellent news on the centerstand, it will make dialing in the rear suspension much easier.

Jerry

 

[AzBob_imp]

Carguy, a few questions and comments.

For the front suspension (and rear), I worry about 2 things relative to the spring. 1. Can I set my sag in an acceptable range and 2. how am I doing on the top end (am I bottoming out)? With the windjammer, you have added more weight to the front + you did not indicate your weight. I don't know how to guide you without some info. Can you add a ziptie to the front left fork and get some baseline info?

Adding the zip tie: In this pic, you can see the addition of the ziptie. I push it all the way down against the fork lower. As the fork compresses, it will push the ziptie up and you can see how much of the suspension you use. You will also note I added some electrical tape at the top of the fork. This tells me how close I am to bottoming out. The easiest way to figure out where to place the tape is to lift the front wheel off the ground to relieve any load on the front suspension. Then, measure 4.2" up and place the tape around the fork - make sure you add a little room for the ziptie.



When you are checking free (bike) sag or rider sag, the ziptie makes it easy. Note, to get the free or bike sag, you will have to lift the front wheel off the ground. You need this info to work out the weight on the front suspension. Once you have done this, can you report back your measurements?

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/Sportster/Testing%20114_zpswszoz7cr.jpg.html]

For the rear, we will be doing the same thing but using a nylon washer you can get at Home Depot or Lowes (see pic 1 above). We'll slip that on the rear shock to check bike sag and rider sag. Here is a pic of where you place the nylon washer on the shock. You measure the distances the same as the ziptie on the front.

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/Testing%2063_zpsz0ik8ff1.jpg.html]

As to the wind buffering, I'd say you don't have the suspension sorted out properly. So there is a bit of work to get done but I am confident having done so your challenge will be gone. I had a 1976 CB550 with a windjammer back in the day and didn't have the problem you are describing.

On the [cheap] rear shock that you put on to lower the rear, that may be the significant source of the problem. The bike was designed with a rake (angle) and trail (distance) to perform a certain way. You can change the relative rake angle and trail in good ways if you know how to do this or in a bad way if you do not realize what you are doing. The short shock is bad and probably doesn't have strong enough springs to hold up its end of the rear suspension, so your rear is way too low. This is not a good thing as it messes up your steering geometry.

Lets get your front sorted out (up I suspect) first, then we'll tackle the rear.

You have some homework with zipties awaiting. Pics are good to, so don't be shy on posting some.

Jerry

A few words on geometry. A few years ago, I completed a project with a CB700SC Nighthawk where I changed a number of things on the bike to make it a modern retro kind of Bike. One of the things I had to be mindful of was changing the geometry of the bike (rake and trail). I collected a lot of data one modern bikes, 2011-2014 to help guide me in the changes I was planning on making. Here is the graphic of that data with the CB1100 in it. You can see the Honda designers gave it some safe numbers (27 degrees and 4.4" trail) relative to the other naked bikes (black dots). The spot guys are the red dots, the cruisers are the magenta dots. As you make changes to your Cb1100, you need to know whats that going to do to your geometry so you don't go to far in an unsafe directions - note the design limits ("V" shape) the manufactures stay within.

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/CB1100/3.%20%201%20%20geometry_zps8wohrsyl.jpg.html]

My finished Nighthawk (modern 17" wheels/radials, big brakes, and modern F/R suspensions); if you look close enough you can see my electrical tape and black ziptie!

[url=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/spacetiger81/media/Honda%20CB700SC/pic%20for%20internet_zpsmovjatwv.jpg.html]

CB 1100 14 standard I can tell I am using most of the suspension ...no zip ties. But good idea.. I just see dust marks...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes on center stand .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

dsan,

How do you know you are using most of the front suspension? It has been my experience you can only tell when you bottom out but not that you can "almost bottom out" - unless you use zipties that record the max suspension use.

As we are dialing in your front suspension, I need to know if you ride solo or 2 up. It makes a difference in how you dial in you front suspension as the stock front end does not have preload adjustability.

Awaiting your ziptie data. Also, excellent news on the centerstand, it will make dialing in the rear suspension much easier.

Jerry

I think you are mistaken; preload is the only thing you can adjust on the stock front end (and the rear, for that matter).

 

[spacetiger_imp]

That's good news AzBob, Now I understand what dsan meant.

If you are lucky, you can set up the suspension with no preload to ride solo, then dial in the preload for 2 up riding. But I doubt the springs are stiff enough as Honda (and other manufactures) don't tend to get the spring out of the box right for 200+ solo riders.

Jerry

 

[Carguy1959_imp]

Here I are pictures of my measurements
And another

 

[spacetiger_imp]

carguy,

It looks like the 1 3/8" measurement is from you on the bike? I cannot make out the last measurement; I can see it is 2.5" but cannot see where the bottom is referenced from. Is it 2.5" above the ziptie, that is 1 3/8", above the fork dust seal?

Do you have a centerstand? If so, can you
1. push the ziptie to the dust seal
2. place bike on centerstand
3. sit on back of seat to get nose of bike up in air (this takes the weight of the bike off the front)
4. have someone measure this distance, this is the bike sag.

We need this distance to add to the 1 3/8" to know the total sag.

First impression is that you are going to have well over 2" [1" (guess at bike sag) + 1 3/8"] for your rider sag. The front suspension only has 4.2" of travel, so you would be investing over half of the suspension to set your sag. That would be too much. It is likely you will have to increase the preload spacers in the front forks.

I'll wait to hear from you on the bike sag measurement.

After you measure the bike sag since you have someone else in the garage, can you get them to sit on the bike (instead of you) and you measure the rider sag measurement for him/her. The bike will have to be on both wheels and he/she will have to have the feet on the pegs, you can steady the bike so it stays upright. I'm guessing that person does not weigh as much as you so the measurement will be less than 1 3/8" I also need their weight.

Jerry

 

[Carguy1959_imp]

And another
Here I are pictures of my measurements
The 2.5 measurement is from the zip tie to the tape. The tape was set at 4.2 with the front wheel hanging while the bike was on the center stand. The tire wasn't touching the ground when I put the tape on the 4.2 mark. My preload is set on the 3rd line from the factory.

 

[spacetiger_imp]

k, can you get the bike sag only measurement then? Getting your wife rider sag measurement would be helpful since I don't have your spring rate. I am trying to get 2 measurements knowing your weight and your wife"s weight to back fit your spring rate.

Jerry

 

[Carguy1959_imp]

Also I was the one on the bike, I used my floor jack to tilt the bike back. I weigh 170.

 

[spacetiger_imp]

carguy,

Here is what I can tell you based on the info provided, your current preload is at 40.5% which is a bit on the high side as a good target to shoot for is 25%. That means you need to increase the preload to the max possible, then repeat measurements to see if we can get close to 25%. If we cannot get there, then you will need to put in longer preload spacers. I can walk you through this as this can be done with the forks on the bike (although I am not sure what fork access you have with the vetter on).

Good call on the use of the floor jack.

Here is a pic of your current situation. As soon as you can get the wife's info or you with with 50 lbs of stuff on your lap I can try to backfit a curve.



Jerry

 

[Carguy1959_imp]

So basically, I need to increase my preload to reduce my travel. Wife doesn't ride or ride with me.
Thanks for the info, I will play with it and get back to you.
Thanks
Steve

 

[spacetiger_imp]

Steve,

Take it for a ride too to see where the zip tie ends up. I think you are going to bottom out because you have just under 60% of the front suspension to ride on. If you bottom out, it is likely your zip tie will pow through the tape if you didn't account for the thickness of the ziptie when setting the tape 4.2" up from fork lower. Don't worry, it will not hurt anything (I have done it before).

Thanks for posting to help the other riders.

Jerry

 

[ChipBeck_imp]

Jerry,

I've enjoyed your posts on the XL Sportster Forum. Good to see you over here. I've got a CB1100 too.

Chip