RE: Triumph Bonnevilles? Show 'em off!

[Guth_imp]

For me, the photo of Capos 1970 T120 illustrates why I think Honda was wise not to try to recreate any one specific design from the past. The look of the current Bonneville pales in comparison to the originals. The proportions just aren't right. The beautiful lines of that 1970 bike are lost in the new bikes with their bulbous tanks, oddly angled pipes and larger engines. The models sporting 17" wheels look worse to my eye than the T100s. Not because of the spokes, but because the size of the wheel/tire just throws the balance off that much more. Keep in mind that I consider the Triumphs of the late 60s to be some of the most beautiful bikes ever built. Simply awesome looking machines. So Triumph set their own design bar really high. I also happen to be pretty particular about stuff like this.

Those of you who have been around this forum for a while are familiar with the fact that I'm not too crazy about the look of the larger tank on the CB1100 deluxe. Same deal - the lines of the tank pass muster in some photos, but in others the curves just look bloated. I would be hard pressed to find a photo of that 1970 T120 that didn't look darn near perfect to me from almost any angle. Stunning machine.
Before I come across as being too hard on today's retro standards, I would add that I still find these designs more attractive than the alternatives. The Bonneville of today is still a more attractive bike to me than say the Daytona 675. Things just start to fall apart for me a bit when the comparison to the looks of the old bikes comes into play.

 

[Capo]

I would say that any of the modern retro bikes, including the CB1100, don't hold up to the originals in terms of purity of essence and beauty. Park a CB1100 next to a 750 4 to that point. Same with today's Pony car retros. They are all pastiches that remind us of the originals, but are hindered by the modern expectations of safety, reliability, emissions, and general bulk that comes with modern bikes and cars.

I, naturally, don't agree with the anti- modern Bonnie sentiment above, (other than the SE 17- inch wheel/ fat tank models) and quite frankly, find the negativity a bit out of character for this forum, in a thread asking for people to show their Bonnie's. But everyone rationalizes, And that's why so many different bikes exist!

 

[the Ferret]

I don't think an observation is necessarily a negative nor is a comparison. The design of some things are so iconic as to demand comparison and critiquing especially if they carry the same moniker as the original . Triumph Bonneville, Norton Commando, Indian Chief and Scout, to name a few. Although we often remember things as viewed thru rode colored glasses, there is no doubt the newly named items, although resembling the originals, are not clones , and are actually much better machines thank goodness.

 

[Elipten_imp]

Well this reminds me of two old sayings.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

"Love is like art, there is no accounting for taste."

Basically I don't judge as someone finds each bike out there trips all their triggers. Most of them just don't trip mine.

I might not agree with what you say but I will fight defending you rights to say it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Guth_imp]

When it comes to industrial design, I'm obviously quite opinionated and I apologize for that. The irony after stating all of the above is that if someone handed me the money to go out an buy a Bonneville today. I'd pick one of the newer machines. Because the benefits offered by the modern machines: the safety, reliability, decreased emissions, etc. can't be matched by the older bikes. While I don't mind tinkering on motorcycles and even find it enjoyable I still primarily like simply riding the things the best. In their own light, the modern designs are just fine and that's not meant as a backhanded compliment. At one point I myself was attracted enough to visit the local Triumph dealership just to get a closer look at the bikes for myself.

Now when I get to the point that I can no longer ride, I might well sell off everything I own that is motorcycle related in order to fund the purchase of a vintage Bonneville to just sit and stare at, assuming that I can still see.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

It is quite possible and even likely that I am a simpleton with basic tastes, easily pleased, with an unsophisticated eye when it comes to beauty and art and, Lord knows, symmetry. As proof of this, I happily admit that I truly find each of the machines on this thread beautiful. There's something about motorcycles, even those that some may consider "ugly," that makes me happy when I see them. In fact, I think that Daytona 675 is one sexy beast. I even see gays and gals ride by on scooters and think, "That's cool. Looks like fun." And I find myself appreciating the lines of the scooter. I fully realize that my appreciation of "beauty" is skewed by the emotion inextricably intertwined with motorcycling but when are opinions of beauty ever fully divested of emotion?

Of course, I have my preferences. The CB being one of them. I love the true classics but, at the risk of being stoned to death, I'll say, I think the modern CB1100 is a better looking bike. Yes, even better looking than the '69 and early 70s CB750. I am convinced that 40 years from now, riders will be talking about the "true classic" CBs of the 2010s and how the modern classics fail to capture the essence of our "timeless" design. Oh, and I'm talking about the 2014 Standard, of course. The Deluxe is one ugly jumble of rubber and metal put together by three blind Japanese high school students who snuck into their daddy's sake stash.

 

[the Ferret]

:rofl: MG

If money were no object (and it is) I would have a 67 Bonneville in Burgoine and white and a 77 BMW R100/7 in Burnt Orange Metallic in my man cave just to look at and admire. Pure art.

 

[Capo]

Lets be sure not to post a 'Show us your children' thread. I'd hate to see replies saying how ugly they are and can't hold up to vintage original parent!

 

[redbirds_imp]

Much as I like the new Bonnies, Kawasaki has done a better job in "re-creating" the svelte lines of the original. Another great bike that we are denied.

http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/produc...CCDApRUV5RWQ0LW1BaXFBbCwpdCVlfXlteUF8LDAoKC1k

 

[the Ferret]

Capo, I just went back and reread every post because I didn't remember much negativity about the Bonnies, and to the contrary they were all complimentary to the new Bonnies except for Guth comparing the lines of the original to the new and he said the exact same thing about the fuel tank on the CB Dlx.

As a matter of fact your post above #43, first paragraph, said the exact same thing Guth said, does it not?

I see words like great, awesome, beautiful, wish I hadn't sold mine, I'd like to buy another

I don't understand your complaints about negativity in this thread.?

 

[Capo]

No biggie, typical Internet -related misunderstandings. My point is, perhaps, invalid as it relates to Internet forum etiquette and modern communication decorum. That point being, if someone posts a picture of their bike, in a thread asking to show your bikes, the only responses I personally would give are along the lines of 'nice bike' or I would give no response at all. It wouldn't cross my mind to start pointing out how 'poorly proportioned, corny or not well balanced' I think the person's bike is or what an error the manufacturer made or how much better another bike is. Just as, if a new member joined this forum, posted a picture of his new black CB1100, and we respond with 'black is ugly, you should have bought a DLX.' Unless you use a smiley emoticon, of course! 😀

It's not about opinions, or freedom of speech, as much as it is common courtesy. Which, I think, is one of the great characteristics of this particular forum, the most civil one I've yet been part of.

Had the topic been about debating the merits of certain bikes, let it rip. I'm by no means a PC person, nor thin- skinned, and greatly enjoy some good old snark and parry. But Id never call your baby ugly.

Rant over. Thanks for the forum . I'm going to the garage to see if I can fit a CB1100 tank on my Bonnie!

 

[the Ferret]

ahh I understand. Yes threads tend to drift a bit, and being a public forum of course people are free to say what they want (within certain parameters) but you are talking general common courtesy and I get that.

 

[Wisedrum]

Much as I like the new Bonnies, Kawasaki has done a better job in "re-creating" the svelte lines of the original. Another great bike that we are denied.

http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/produc...CCDApRUV5RWQ0LW1BaXFBbCwpdCVlfXlteUF8LDAoKC1k

You wrote the words I have in mind.

Therefore I own one of this beautiful bikes.
The special kind of valve treatment, "Königswelle" in German,
I can't find an appropriate translation, is something extraordinary today.
Nice to look at, and it function very solid.

The curves of the W are designed near the old motorcycles and enjoy the heart.
Without putting someone or something down, this is a real modern classic.
Not the only one, but a real one.
And a pleasure to ride, feels like being way back in the Sixties.

Wisedrum

 

[rboe]

We have a local guy with a green and crème W650. My CB1100 is typically the best looking bike at The Grotto - until he shows up.

I'm not at all familiar with the older BSA and Kawasaki's that came first so the W650 (and 800) have to stand on their own; which they do very well. Not very many modern bikes can say that. But taste is a funny thing; tainted by what you grew up with. I did not grow up with transformers so I consider all bikes based on them, typically Bas*&(%$ cousins to bikes like the CB, Bonnie and W650.

 

[Guth_imp]

The issue has been raised that voicing my criticisms of the current generation Triumph Bonneville when compared to some of the older designs in a thread intended to praise current Bonnies wasn't exactly appropriate. With that in mind, I'll pull my posts into this thread The focus here is this: how do today's designs fall short in your eyes as compared to the bikes of the past? Obviously today's designers have to take into account a variety of different factors that designers from the 60s and 70s didn't face and those things are bound to have an impact on the final products. But with that aside, if there is anything that you would change with today's retro standards, what would it be.

I'll start with my very own 2013 CB1100. Honda did fine with the headers, but I'll admit that the headers displayed on the prototype machine got me really fired up (such an obvious nod to one of the most iconic exhausts ever — the one found on the CB400F from the 70's). I would have really liked to see these headers make the production cut as those that came with the bikes as they rolled out of the factory aren't nearly as stunning to my eye.

 

[gossman_imp]

The CB400 that I rode in 1977 had great looks and was a pleasure to ride. I never appreciated it much then but I really didn't appreciate my CB 550, CB360t, or even my '81 CB650 until much later. The '13s seat is probably the biggest disappointment, it's alright but the breadloaf on the '14 was a better upgrade. But the ABS system was a home run.

 

[Wisedrum]

The CB400 that I rode in 1977 had great looks and was a pleasure to ride. I never appreciated it much then but I really didn't appreciate my CB 550, CB360t, or even my '81 CB650 until much later. The '13s seat is probably the biggest disappointment, it's alright but the breadloaf on the '14 was a better upgrade. But the ABS system was a home run.

Not for me.
After a while, not on the first ride, I get used to the 13s seat
and it doesn't feel as uncomfortable as it seems.
In other words, I sit in. Or the Honda does.
Despite this, I have no comparison to the 14s model.
I've not ridden one 'til today.

The 13s in Germany was offered with ABS and a CBS (Combined Break System).
A very good improvement.
Nevertheless the CBS isn't offered anymore with the 14s CB, something I couldn't
understand, but I don't have to, 'cause I bought a 13s.

Wisedrum

 

[flynrider]

The issue has been raised that voicing my criticisms of the current generation Triumph Bonneville when compared to some of the older designs in a thread intended to praise current Bonnies wasn't exactly appropriate. With that in mind, I'll pull my posts into this thread The focus here is this: how do today's designs fall short in your eyes as compared to the bikes of the past? Obviously today's designers have to take into account a variety of different factors that designers from the 60s and 70s didn't face and those things are bound to have an impact on the final products. But with that aside, if there is anything that you would change with today's retro standards, what would it be.

I'll start with my very own 2013 CB1100. Honda did fine with the headers, but I'll admit that the headers displayed on the prototype machine got me really fired up (such an obvious nod to one of the most iconic exhausts ever — the one found on the CB400F from the 70's). I would have really liked to see these headers make the production cut as those that came with the bikes as they rolled out of the factory aren't nearly as stunning to my eye.

They are eye candy for sure. The downside looks to be that you'd have to remove the headers to change the oil filter. I don't see enough of a gap between the left and right pair to get the job done.

 

[Rocky_imp]

I don't disagree at all with Guth's comments, and more or less agree with them, but I don't dwell on the negative. The bikes are what they are so I enjoy them to the fullest and am glad they are loaded with modern technology.
Many times when I'm out riding, both the CB and the Bonneville, are taken for restorations (circa 1970) at first glance until they look closer.
The fact that they aren't "exact copies" (and were never intended to be) doesn't bother me a bit and both bikes put a smile on my face that money can't buy.
As far as I'm concerned both bikes are close enough to the original designs and I'm over the moon by being able to own and ride both.
If I'm in a really serious nostalgic mood I ride my 1970 Triumph T100 or my 1967 BSA. Both bikes get ridden at least 1000 miles each summer.

 

[redbirds_imp]

The CB400 that I rode in 1977 had great looks and was a pleasure to ride. I never appreciated it much then but I really didn't appreciate my CB 550, CB360t, or even my '81 CB650 until much later. The '13s seat is probably the biggest disappointment, it's alright but the breadloaf on the '14 was a better upgrade. But the ABS system was a home run.

Not for me.
After a while, not on the first ride, I get used to the 13s seat
and it doesn't feel as uncomfortable as it seems.
In other words, I sit in. Or the Honda does.
Despite this, I have no comparison to the 14s model.
I've not ridden one 'til today.

The 13s in Germany was offered with ABS and a CBS (Combined Break System).
A very good improvement.
Nevertheless the CBS isn't offered anymore with the 14s CB, something I couldn't
understand, but I don't have to, 'cause I bought a 13s.

Wisedrum

Not for me.
After a while, not on the first ride, I get used to the 13s seat
and it doesn't feel as uncomfortable as it seems.
In other words, I sit in. Or the Honda does.
Despite this, I have no comparison to the 14s model.
I've not ridden one 'til today.

Wisedrum
I agree with Wisedrum. Initially I thought the seat too hard but after a thousand miles or so it broke in and now no complaints. As far as style between the DLX and the '13, I much prefer the look of the older bike and if I were looking for a CB1100 today it would be the red 2013 model, The 5 speed tranny is the only thing I would change.