Prob an old topic. THE HARLEY VALUE MYTH. Debunked. Or reality?

[Romo1969_imp]

The Harley myth of value lives on.
If I buy a comparable bike like a thunderbird as example. If you buy a harley and pay a 20-25% more. Then we both sell a few years later. You get 20% more than I do after a few years.
Do the math. You likely paid more per year to own that hd than I did owning something more unique.
Add expensive harley accessories and now I really financially kicked your tail as those accessories are worth a whole lot of nuttin.
And many of us admire the accessories available to hd guys. If I ever bought one this would be one of the key selling points for me. But I should thank other makers for not having this available to me and potentially letting me go down a financial rabbit hole of lost investment. So. Thank you

It's a myth not supported by actual math data.


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Obviously some assumptions made above for sake of conversation. Numbers are just conversational base assumptions.


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[ss2wheels_imp]

Harley resale has always been better than japanese bike resale, just as japanese cars hold thier value waaaaaayyyy better than american cars,that is just the way it has been for a long time,but that is not true right now in the bike side of this,Harley has taken a major dump in the resale market, mainly because the market is ultra saturated with used HDs and the reason for this is that so many people buy into the Lifestyle and then realize that they do not use them very often, they become fixtures in the garage taking up space. I am not HD bashing I have owned 7 of them myself,this is just what I see through my eyes,and I have lived and breathed motorcycles for 40 years..just one mans opinion!

 

[Romo1969_imp]

Well. That's interesting. But it think it was always a myth. Even when times were better for hd. Let's face it. Hd types especially the new hd crowd of wanna bees are talkers and egoites. None of them eager to share their recent loss in value. They sold the bike and netted even. Oh. Maybe they forgot the warranty they bought the accessories they bought the added fees to the sale they paid and the fact their bike hardly got any miles put on it. Only the success stories get told and even those are questionable. Given they are the largest loudest segment of the market, that's a lot of talk and a lot of stories. Again. It's all math.


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[Jhonda_imp]

My opinion. If you are buying a Motorcycle with its future resale value as a reason to make the purchase, you are missing the point of why we ride in the first place. It isn't the Motorcycle ( Harley, BMW, Honda ETC) as much as the person riding and enjoying the motorcycle. My opinion... Not meant to offend anyone.

 

[Capo]

Here is a marketing equation on value that I find useful. Value= desirability divided by price, or V= D/P. A number greater than 1 indicates positive value. So, the higher the price, or lower the desirability, a buyer will find decreasing value in the product. While desirability is a pure variable, if you think about a product in these terms, it makes sense. So, to me, a Harley has very little value. It is expensive, and I don't desire one. To someone else, actually many, the reverse is true. The Cb1100, again to me, has great value, as the price I paid for it was extremely fair versus how desirable it is to me.

That's today's lesson, class dismissed, go ride!

 

[the Ferret]

Romo..tread carefully with the labeling please.

To label a whole group of one brand riders as the same is non sensical. There are many dedicated Harley riders and I would think there are just as many non Harley riders who ride only a few miles a year, but still enjoy owning motorcycles.

I can remember back in the late 80s and early 90s when there was an absolute shortage of HDs and one had to put an order in and wait for months to get one, and often paid over retail to boot. In that situation used units did carry a higher than average resale value, because there were more buyers than there were units available. They had no choice. If they wanted a bike, and didn't want to wait, they paid whatever the seller was asking. Today with excess units sitting on dealers showroom floors, that is no longer the case and resale values reflect that. People can either walk in and dicker on a new one or buy one of a multitude of used ones. That decreases value.

As far as resale value today goes I think it is fairly equal as far as percentage of loss on depreciation of American and foreign motorcycles, if you factor out the accessories that some riders tend to put into their bikes. A lot of the resale value loss also depends on the desperation of the seller. Low ball offers often beat repossession in hard times, get accepted thereby dragging the individual resale of a unit down, but if you factored in all sales of those units across the country, the resale would be much more normal.

Also resale value, just like insurance, can reflect where you live. Im guessing a used anything motorcycle or car or house goes for less in Detroit, Michigan than it does in San Diego, California.

As with our own CBs with some claiming the value between $5000 and $6000 ..some are willing to accept that, but I don't think it accurately represents the true value of our bikes which I think is much higher... about $8000 IMO, but that is just my opinion, well mine and KBBs if you look it up. I would not let mine go to someone for $6000. It had more value to me than that. But if someone does, does that accurately represent the value of these machines? I don't think so.

 

[Buffalohead_imp]

Don't forget about Honda's bulletproof reliability vs. HD's dismal reliability. When the warranty runs out, it can cost you. If you haven't already done so, check out Consumer Reports reliability data.

Romo..tread carefully with the labeling please.

To label a whole group of one brand riders as the same is non sensical. There are many dedicated Harley riders and I would think there are just as many non Harley riders who ride only a few miles a year, but still enjoy owning motorcycles.

I can remember back in the late 80s and early 90s when there was an absolute shortage of HDs and one had to put an order in and wait for months to get one, and often paid over retail to boot. In that situation used units did carry a higher than average resale value, because there were more buyers than there were units available. They had no choice. If they wanted a bike, and didn't want to wait, they paid whatever the seller was asking. Today with excess units sitting on dealers showroom floors, that is no longer the case and resale values reflect that. People can either walk in and dicker on a new one or buy one of a multitude of used ones. That decreases value.

As far as resale value today goes I think it is fairly equal as far as percentage of loss on depreciation of American and foreign motorcycles, if you factor out the accessories that some riders tend to put into their bikes. A lot of the resale value loss also depends on the desperation of the seller. Low ball offers often beat repossession in hard times, get accepted thereby dragging the individual resale of a unit down, but if you factored in all sales of those units across the country, the resale would be much more normal.

Also resale value, just like insurance, can reflect where you live. Im guessing a used anything motorcycle or car or house goes for less in Detroit, Michigan than it does in San Diego, California.

As with our own CBs with some claiming the value between $5000 and $6000 ..some are willing to accept that, but I don't think it accurately represents the true value of our bikes which I think is much higher... about $8000 IMO, but that is just my opinion, well mine and KBBs if you look it up. I would not let mine go to someone for $6000. It had more value to me than that. But if someone does, does that accurately represent the value of these machines? I don't think so.

Have you noticed how many HD's have been for sale the last few years? There are always GOBS of low mileage garage queens out there for sale. Anyone who buys a new one is nuts!

 

[pechorin75_imp]

I agree with Ferret on the labeling. I happen to own a (used) Harley in addition to my other bikes, and though I'm definitely not part of the whole "crowd" people conjure up when they hear the name, I've really enjoyed the bike. It's a very different experience from the CB and the others...which to me is kind of the point.

As to the issue of resale...my personal experience in the lightly-used 3-4 year old private party market has been that HDs seem to lose value at about the same rate as BMWs. Of course, that's based on a limited sample set (three bikes). What, if anything, it says about either brand, I don't know.

To me, the bottom line is that if you're really worried about depreciation, look for something like my ZRX--a well cared-for, 10+ year old bike whose value isn't really changing much anymore. That, or a beginner bike you'll be able to sell at minimal loss. Otherwise...as others have said, buy what you like, and figure you'll get enough enjoyment out of it to justify the hit you take at sale.

 

[the Ferret]

Buffalohead..yes I said that at the bottom of the same paragraph you quoted.

 

[ride4now_imp]

You know... what's the purpose
of this thread?? To bash other bikers
who happen to like something different?
When I got back to the sport in '03
I didn't even look at anything but a Harley.
I've now owned 2 Harley's and my next one
after the 14 DLX will probably be another
one. My '04 now has 23000 miles on it and all I've ever
done is religious maintenance. There's
been no problems with it at all. And I've
never had to lube a chain either...
Look, once again, let's not bash others,
let's just enjoy our sport and our CB's.
To each his own... Right?

 

[davidsargee_imp]

H-D has enjoyed so much success the last decade or so that there seems to be one on every corner. This affects the resale value more than anything, as Ferret pointed out, the supply has caught up with the demand, now they depreciate faster than before. When H-D recently released the Rushmore bikes, a lot of H-D aficionados traded their older bikes in, making a new glut. I have several friends that ride Harleys and would have nothing else, some of them are "weekend warriors" some of them ride everywhere they go, but they all enjoy their bikes. I have been on rides with some of them, it's always fun listening to them call my bike a rice burner. I tell them Big Red prefers sushi rice, and ask them later if they could smell the vinegar in the exhaust, as I passed by.

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

Heres my HD value story:

In 1991 I paid $7,500 for a 100% stock '77 FXS Low Rider. In 2007 a guy flew here from Japan and paid enough for it to buy a new VStrom1000 and make a down payment on a house.

I miss that bike, but I really like having a garage for my CB...

 

[dBuster_imp]

Why are those hardley Davidson's so expensive in the first place? The name?

Like an HD rider friend of mine says, everything is at least a hd, hundred dollars... He even said those shirts they so called give you are rolled up in the cost of the bike loan probably at a HD as well each.

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[Romo1969_imp]

Romo..tread carefully with the labeling please.

To label a whole group of one brand riders as the same is non sensical. There are many dedicated Harley riders and I would think there are just as many non Harley riders who ride only a few miles a year, but still enjoy owning motorcycles.

I can remember back in the late 80s and early 90s when there was an absolute shortage of HDs and one had to put an order in and wait for months to get one, and often paid over retail to boot. In that situation used units did carry a higher than average resale value, because there were more buyers than there were units available. They had no choice. If they wanted a bike, and didn't want to wait, they paid whatever the seller was asking. Today with excess units sitting on dealers showroom floors, that is no longer the case and resale values reflect that. People can either walk in and dicker on a new one or buy one of a multitude of used ones. That decreases value.

As far as resale value today goes I think it is fairly equal as far as percentage of loss on depreciation of American and foreign motorcycles, if you factor out the accessories that some riders tend to put into their bikes. A lot of the resale value loss also depends on the desperation of the seller. Low ball offers often beat repossession in hard times, get accepted thereby dragging the individual resale of a unit down, but if you factored in all sales of those units across the country, the resale would be much more normal.

Also resale value, just like insurance, can reflect where you live. Im guessing a used anything motorcycle or car or house goes for less in Detroit, Michigan than it does in San Diego, California.

As with our own CBs with some claiming the value between $5000 and $6000 ..some are willing to accept that, but I don't think it accurately represents the true value of our bikes which I think is much higher... about $8000 IMO, but that is just my opinion, well mine and KBBs if you look it up. I would not let mine go to someone for $6000. It had more value to me than that. But if someone does, does that accurately represent the value of these machines? I don't think so.

Hopes and dreams. Tread carefully ferret. Reality. Is. Well.
Reality.
I bought my cb for 7k w 150 miles. That is reality.
The dream is a bike with higher miles selling for more.




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You know... what's the purpose
of this thread?? To bash other bikers
who happen to like something different?
When I got back to the sport in '03
I didn't even look at anything but a Harley.
I've now owned 2 Harley's and my next one
after the 14 DLX will probably be another
one. My '04 now has 23000 miles on it and all I've ever
done is religious maintenance. There's
been no problems with it at all. And I've
never had to lube a chain either...
Look, once again, let's not bash others,
let's just enjoy our sport and our CB's.
To each his own... Right?

To each his own. Correct and I love that.
Not any purpose than open discussion for fun. If an HD
Lover sees value in what they spend. Good for them. Happiness has no price.
Don't make silly assumptions about a thread that us just for fun open and honest discussion.
We are better than that.


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Heres my HD value story:

In 1991 I paid $7,500 for a 100% stock '77 FXS Low Rider. In 2007 a guy flew here from Japan and paid enough for it to buy a new VStrom1000 and make a down payment on a house.

I miss that bike, but I really like having a garage for my CB...

Yet another success HD story.
Yay.


Barf.
Dreamers unite. Odd. Can't find a story about losing money on an HD.
Weird. Or myth.
To each his own


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What does moved. Mean?


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[Guth_imp]

I assume that people buy Harleys because they want Harleys..

Everyone has different priorities when it comes to motorcycles, or most anything else for that matter. If it's a Harley that someone wants, then only a Harley will do. It's a passion buy, who cares about the resale value? People buy them to ride, buy them to admire, and buy them to hang out with other like-minded individuals. None of these things have anything to do with resale value.

I have nothing against those who dig Harley Davidsons, more power to them.

 

[Romo1969_imp]

I assume that people buy Harleys because they want Harleys..

Everyone has different priorities when it comes to motorcycles, or most anything else for that matter. If it's a Harley that someone wants, then only a Harley will do. It's a passion buy, who cares about the resale value? People buy them to ride, buy them to admire, and buy them to hang out with other like-minded individuals. None of these things have anything to do with resale value.

I have nothing against those who dig Harley Davidsons, more power to them.

Well said.
I wonder if the HD crowd is so graceful.


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[Guth_imp]

Well here's the thing, I'm sure there are plenty of H-D owners that perhaps aren't quite so graceful. But then there are probably plenty of Honda owners of which one could say the same.

For better or worse (and it is both) H-D has a brand and an image like nobody else. I'm sure they wouldn't trade it for anything.

I try to focus on the fact that plenty of good people ride motorcycles — some of them ride H-Ds and some of them ride Hondas.

 

[ride4now_imp]

Well here's the thing, I'm sure there are plenty of H-D owners that perhaps aren't quite so graceful. But then there are probably plenty of Honda owners of which one could say the same.

For better or worse (and it is both) H-D has a brand and an image like nobody else. I'm sure they wouldn't trade it for anything.

I try to focus on the fact that plenty of good people ride motorcycles — some of them ride H-Ds and some of them ride Hondas.

And some... perhaps many... ride BOTH!

 

[Guth_imp]

Good point.


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[ride4now_imp]

I should just let this go...but it is a fair question, all prejudices aside. Per KBB, here's some numbers. 2013 HD Superglide Custom, trade in value, $9670.00.
Retail value $12,170. That's 73% and 92% of Harley's list price of $13,199.0 per their web site. The 2013 Honda CB1100, trade in value, $5750.00. Retail value, $8325.00. That's 57% and 83% of Honda's list price of $9999.00. So... 2 bikes in one year don't make it gospel, but it's reality as I see it. Look, as many have said before... it's a bike...ride what you love and don't worry about the others. Just ride. And as Ferret has said...'All bikes are cool, some are just cooler than others'.