Out of gas - Beware estimated miles remaining!

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

I only had some short trips to do around the DC, so I didn't stop to fill up the tank yesterday when the initial Estimated Miles Remaining came on. Still had 30+ miles left today, so I took the "long" way home and stopped to eat dinner in Crystal City. After dinner, the bike wouldn't start! Battery was still good, and the starter sounded good. I suspected the fuel because the estimated miles left had changed several times between yesterday and today. I tried rocking/tilting the bike to get fuel where it needed to be, but no luck.

I walked to the nearest gas station, got a container and a gallon of gas, and returned to successfully start the bike.

Big thank you to the attendant at the gas station at Rt. 1 and 23rd. He gave me a free gallon of gas *and* showed me how to open the surprisingly complex container.

Here is how many miles I'd gone:

Lesson: even if the bike says you have 30 or 40 miles left, you may not have that much. I suspect it becomes less accurate the more you are stopping/starting the bike and doing little runs around town. It is probably most accurate when it first comes on, so if it says 40 miles to go, and *still* says 30 miles to go after you've gone much more than 10, be suspicious!

 

[Inhouse Bob]

Bummer. Glad the guy helped you out! Keep in mind that if you ever need a rescue or gas or whatever, I have no life and will be glad to assist.

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

Bummer. Glad the guy helped you out! Keep in mind that if you ever need a rescue or gas or whatever, I have no life and will be glad to assist.

Thank you! Hopefully will be able to avoid running out of gas too often (eyeroll), but I'll be sure to put up the Bob Signal when trouble strikes!

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

How the estimated miles remaining (EMR) is calculated will be the key. Is it a simple arithmetic average of fuel consumption since the last refuel? Is it a sliding weighted average? Is it the average fuel consumption since day one? Can it be reset? I don't know the answer to these questions so I can only surmise that it is total average fuel consumption or average fuel consumption since last reset, neither being weighted. However any will give you a misleading result if riding conditions change quickly and you are nearing the end of the tank. For instance, out of the city I expect a tank ('10 model) to give me between 230 and 250kms. In the city I can get as little as 160kms to the tank; stopping, accelerating up to second and then stopping again really gulps the juice.

So if you are doing some "easy riding" the EMR might be, using your example, 30 miles. If you continue on your easy ride then that would be a reasonably accurate estimate. However if you enter heavy stop/start traffic conditions, or if you jack the RPMs up to 5-6000 to do a little knee down work, it will be inaccurate and you may have as little as, say, 15 miles remaining in the tank. Any averaging method, simple or even weighted, cannot "catch up" in the short time that remains. An averaging method must be used as a simple EMR calculated on the instantaneous fuel consumption would mean a wildly fluctuating EMR based on the current throttle position. Totally useless.

The solution? Just get to know the bike a bit better is the only answer I can give. Those of you that actually own one of them new fangled digital CBs may be able to come up with a better explanation, or even solution, to EarsonWheels' vexations.

Cheers

 

[flynrider]

You went 172.7 miles on a standard tank? That's actually pretty good mileage. If I'm doing mostly city riding, my '13s gauge starts flashing at around 115 miles. From experience, I know that I have almost a gallon remaining, so I usually try and hit a gas station within 25- 30 miles of that.

If the '14's computer uses the fuel gauge to estimate remaining fuel, it would probably be optimistic when initially starting the bike. I've noticed that the tank float reads considerably higher when the bike is on the sidestand. For example, yesterday my gauge started flashing the last bar just as I rolled into the driveway. This morning I started the bike as it was sitting on the sidestand and it was showing two bars. It wasn't until I'd ridden a few blocks that the gauge went back to the single flashing bar.

 

[the Ferret]

We have found on the ST 1300 board (the ST also has a fuel computer with countdown to empty) that the count down computer is fairly accurate as long as you don't turn the ignition off. Once the ignition is switched off it resets the computer. It doesn't remember exactly where you were in the countdown. Riding without shutting down I have taken both of my bikes down to the 12 miles to go before empty signal before getting gas.

Wisest thing to do IMO is learn how far you can go on a tank by using the trip meter, either A or B, which you set to zero when you fill up (in your case 172 miles) and make sure you get gas around the 150 mile mark. On mine I use the B trip meter and make sure I get gas around the 200 mile mark (I have gone as far as 225 miles)

 

[Riko_imp]

haha cool, I just had the same question more or less in my topic
I wont copy paste, but only the core question:

Judder gasrespons with 3.1 litres (0.8gallons) left (according to the display), is this normal and did I refuel a bit too early or did I refuel at the right moment I wonder
Especially since the display also showed and estimated range of 59 km (thats 36 miles) depending on the riding style of the moment of course.

I can live with the fact it judders at 3.1 litres left in the tank, but not while saying I could ride about 59 km....

Thx!

I only had some short trips to do around the DC, so I didn't stop to fill up the tank yesterday when the initial Estimated Miles Remaining came on. Still had 30+ miles left today, so I took the "long" way home and stopped to eat dinner in Crystal City. After dinner, the bike wouldn't start! Battery was still good, and the starter sounded good. I suspected the fuel because the estimated miles left had changed several times between yesterday and today. I tried rocking/tilting the bike to get fuel where it needed to be, but no luck.

I walked to the nearest gas station, got a container and a gallon of gas, and returned to successfully start the bike.

Big thank you to the attendant at the gas station at Rt. 1 and 23rd. He gave me a free gallon of gas *and* showed me how to open the surprisingly complex container.

Here is how many miles I'd gone:

Lesson: even if the bike says you have 30 or 40 miles left, you may not have that much. I suspect it becomes less accurate the more you are stopping/starting the bike and doing little runs around town. It is probably most accurate when it first comes on, so if it says 40 miles to go, and *still* says 30 miles to go after you've gone much more than 10, be suspicious!

aside from the estimated distance, did you remember how many gallons the indicator showed?
That is 1 click after the estimated distance number..

this could be a indication for us users that its the time to do a refill

And like I said above, I refilled when it had 59km left (36 miles) and the bike was already starting to judder, although long time user The Ferret said that our bikes dont judder at all no matter what the amount of gas is you have left in the tank.

And I agree that I wouldn't trust the remaining distance when you are riding in town or doing a lot of stop and go riding...
It should only be an indication, not an exact number you can trust upon.
However, I would trust the number of remaining fuel, I had 3.1 litres left and I refueled, that was after 303km of riding, thats 188miles.

Again, it would be helpful if you happen to know how many gallons you had in your tank...

You went 172.7 miles on a standard tank? That's actually pretty good mileage. If I'm doing mostly city riding, my '13s gauge starts flashing at around 115 miles. From experience, I know that I have almost a gallon remaining, so I usually try and hit a gas station within 25- 30 miles of that.

If the '14's computer uses the fuel gauge to estimate remaining fuel, it would probably be optimistic when initially starting the bike. I've noticed that the tank float reads considerably higher when the bike is on the sidestand. For example, yesterday my gauge started flashing the last bar just as I rolled into the driveway. This morning I started the bike as it was sitting on the sidestand and it was showing two bars. It wasn't until I'd ridden a few blocks that the gauge went back to the single flashing bar.

wow, even on the old model, 172 has got to be bellow average...even if you do a lot of city riding.

You must be a spirited rider too in the city

At least you should be able to get 125 miles when riding in the city on a 16liter tank, when riding normal, not even economical...

We have found on the ST 1300 board (the ST also has a fuel computer with countdown to empty) that the count down computer is fairly accurate as long as you don't turn the ignition off. Once the ignition is switched off it resets the computer. It doesn't remember exactly where you were in the countdown. Riding without shutting down I have taken both of my bikes down to the 12 miles to go before empty signal before getting gas.

Wisest thing to do IMO is learn how far you can go on a tank by using the trip meter, either A or B, which you set to zero when you fill up (in your case 172 miles) and make sure you get gas around the 150 mile mark. On mine I use the B trip meter and make sure I get gas around the 200 mile mark (I have gone as far as 225 miles)

Indeed, 200 miles should be easily achieved on the DXL/EX models.
Certainly when I know what I could reach with my Burgman 650s 15liter tank.

And when riding economical 225 miles should also be achievable.
I'll try to post a picture next time of the tripmeter B (I always reset this one between refills) reading 225 miles (or 362 km in my example)

 

[AzBob_imp]

Quote:And like I said above, I refilled when it had 59km left (36 miles) and the bike was already starting to judder, although long time user The Ferret said that our bikes dont judder at all no matter what the amount of gas is you have left in the tank.
Oh, the bike DEFINITELY bucks like a Bronco when it's low on gas. Slowly at first, which means you have about 1-2 miles left, then it gets really bad, and then you're walking.

 

[the Ferret]

Quote:And like I said above, I refilled when it had 59km left (36 miles) and the bike was already starting to judder, although long time user The Ferret said that our bikes dont judder at all no matter what the amount of gas is you have left in the tank.
Oh, the bike DEFINITELY bucks like a Bronco when it's low on gas. Slowly at first, which means you have about 1-2 miles left, then it gets really bad, and then you're walking.

Oh, the bike DEFINITELY bucks like a Bronco when it's low on gas. Slowly at first, which means you have about 1-2 miles left, then it gets really bad, and then you're walking.
:rofl: I have never experienced that (knock on wood) always filling up before that point.

 

[Riko_imp]

Quote:And like I said above, I refilled when it had 59km left (36 miles) and the bike was already starting to judder, although long time user The Ferret said that our bikes dont judder at all no matter what the amount of gas is you have left in the tank.
Oh, the bike DEFINITELY bucks like a Bronco when it's low on gas. Slowly at first, which means you have about 1-2 miles left, then it gets really bad, and then you're walking.

Oh, the bike DEFINITELY bucks like a Bronco when it's low on gas. Slowly at first, which means you have about 1-2 miles left, then it gets really bad, and then you're walking.
aha thx for clarifying, The Ferret made me afraid

nope, shouldn't judder. There is no interruption in fuel flow, it has fuel injection, not gravity fed. There is just a computer that tells you when you have .8 gallon left.

If it judders again (which I don't think it will) you will need to have it looked at by a Honda mechanic.

 

[the Ferret]

well it shouldn't judder with .8 gallon of gas in it, maybe when it gets down to a few teaspoons and there is nothing left in the fuel pump to feed the injectors.

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

We have found on the ST 1300 board (the ST also has a fuel computer with countdown to empty) that the count down computer is fairly accurate as long as you don't turn the ignition off. Once the ignition is switched off it resets the computer. It doesn't remember exactly where you were in the countdown. Riding without shutting down I have taken both of my bikes down to the 12 miles to go before empty signal before getting gas.

Wisest thing to do IMO is learn how far you can go on a tank by using the trip meter, either A or B, which you set to zero when you fill up (in your case 172 miles) and make sure you get gas around the 150 mile mark. On mine I use the B trip meter and make sure I get gas around the 200 mile mark (I have gone as far as 225 miles)

Thank you for this additional info. I think this also applies to the CB1100.

I did not take a picture of the gas, but I was getting ~46mpg on the tank.

Range: 173 miles
Est MPG: 46 mpg
Fuel consumed: 3.76gal

[Max] fuel capacity: 3.9 gal
Est. MPG this tank: 46 mpg
Expected range: 179 miles

The numbers seem right. I usually fill up while on the side stand. I only felt one little blip as I was about a half mile from my destination. Made it to dinner, ate, and then the bike just wouldn't start when I got back on.

FYI - I've had tanks with 60MPG, as well as 38MPG. Depends on where/when/how you drive. Major factors include distance (number of trips with a cold engine), speed, and temperature.

 

[NightRider_imp]

We have found on the ST 1300 board (the ST also has a fuel computer with countdown to empty) that the count down computer is fairly accurate as long as you don't turn the ignition off. Once the ignition is switched off it resets the computer. It doesn't remember exactly where you were in the countdown. Riding without shutting down I have taken both of my bikes down to the 12 miles to go before empty signal before getting gas.

Wisest thing to do IMO is learn how far you can go on a tank by using the trip meter, either A or B, which you set to zero when you fill up (in your case 172 miles) and make sure you get gas around the 150 mile mark. On mine I use the B trip meter and make sure I get gas around the 200 mile mark (I have gone as far as 225 miles)

Thank you for this additional info. I think this also applies to the CB1100.

I did not take a picture of the gas, but I was getting ~46mpg on the tank.

Range: 173 miles
Est MPG: 46 mpg
Fuel consumed: 3.76gal

[Max] fuel capacity: 3.9 gal
Est. MPG this tank: 46 mpg
Expected range: 179 miles

The numbers seem right. I usually fill up while on the side stand. I only felt one little blip as I was about a half mile from my destination. Made it to dinner, ate, and then the bike just wouldn't start when I got back on.

FYI - I've had tanks with 60MPG, as well as 38MPG. Depends on where/when/how you drive. Major factors include distance (number of trips with a cold engine), speed, and temperature.

Thank you for this additional info. I think this also applies to the CB1100.

I did not take a picture of the gas, but I was getting ~46mpg on the tank.

Range: 173 miles
Est MPG: 46 mpg
Fuel consumed: 3.76gal

[Max] fuel capacity: 3.9 gal
Est. MPG this tank: 46 mpg
Expected range: 179 miles

The numbers seem right. I usually fill up while on the side stand. I only felt one little blip as I was about a half mile from my destination. Made it to dinner, ate, and then the bike just wouldn't start when I got back on.

FYI - I've had tanks with 60MPG, as well as 38MPG. Depends on where/when/how you drive. Major factors include distance (number of trips with a cold engine), speed, and temperature.
Hard to tell in the light, is that a standard exhaust setup? It looks different but like I say the light is bad. So is my eyesight. My hearing also, maybe.

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

Standard exhaust, but I meet a gentleman with a Yoshimura RS3 in the same spot the next day. Definitely sounds better (added octave on the low end) without seeming louder.

 

[NightRider_imp]

Thanks. I think Yoshimura makes some fine products. I'm considering their four into four although the single design actually makes more sense to me. I like mounting the bike without worrying about a hot pipe, you know?

Back on the subject, thanks for posting this warning. I suppose once she displays two of those "notches" or indicators I'll start heading for the nearest gas station, non-ethanol if possible, I've always worried about water buildup in my tank after seeing so many rusted out tanks on older bikes.

 

[noroomtomove]

I can relate to the need for a gallon of gas, and your photo captures it well.

So on a ride from full tank to Dargo (in the hills) to full tank the bike used 13.53 L and traveled 291 km or 180 miles. Real world not theoretical I've checked the receipt and so it is.

Regards

 

[Cormanus]

Noroomtomove, that's extraordinary, Ferret-like mileage. I've never got anything approaching 290 kms from a tank of fuel. Good on you.

 

[Django]

With my 2013 (smaller tank than 2014) I run out of gas once. It took exactly 250 km to empty the fuel tank completely. I refilled 14.5 liter.

 

[Toddman_imp]

Yeah, when that last dot flashes, I'm heading to the gas station.

 

[rbike_imp]

Learn your "dots" for your bike's gauge - know how much quantity NOT distance is left. Then from doing your own calcs over the years, know your specific mpg for highway and city driving. Then do a mental reset when you see your light come on as to how far you can go before you need to fill up. On my 13, I have 1.7 Gallons remaining when the last dot comes on and 1.05 gallons when it disappears to reserve. At that point, I can go apx 30 miles around town and 40-45 on the interstate highway.

If I am not on a long trip, I fill up each time I ride and certainly before 1/2 tank as routine to keep condensation from the fuel tank. If nothing else, it provides time to talk to people that are in AWE of the CB.