Open Face Crash

[Tortuga_imp]

Despite having a glut of very nice full face helmets. I'm still drawn to an open face number for the summer.

I know this has been discussed before, but is just want to know, has anyone (or anyone they know of) crashed in an open face and come to any harm?

I see so many of the retro/Guzzi boys poncing about in them here and I'm getting slightly jealous.

When I was in Italy a few months ago they were ' de rigour ' and I dint see too many disfigured youngsters....

Am I being over cautious, or rightly wary?

 

[DAC]

I read some study - that I'm too lazy to look for now - that showed that something like 45% of crashes involve the front or lower front of the face area. So if you want 55% coverage, or you don't think your face is too much of an asset, then knock yourself out (pun intended.) Fashion isn't a good enough reason for me to take that much of a risk. And, FWIW, my face isn't much of an asset either. Or my ass isn't my strongest facet. Or something like that.

 

[Tortuga_imp]

I read some study - that I'm too lazy to look for now - that showed that something like 45% of crashes involve the front or lower front of the face area. So if you want 55% coverage, or you don't think your face is too much of an asset, then knock yourself out (pun intended.) Fashion isn't a good enough reason for me to take that much of a risk. And, FWIW, my face isn't much of an asset either. Or my ass isn't my strongest facet. Or something like that.

O.k, thanks for the info..

 

[the Ferret]

Despite having a glut of very nice full face helmets. I'm still drawn to an open face number for the summer.

I know this has been discussed before, but is just want to know, has anyone (or anyone they know of) crashed in an open face and come to any harm?

I see so many of the retro/Guzzi boys poncing about in them here and I'm getting slightly jealous.

When I was in Italy a few months ago they were ' de rigour ' and I dint see too many disfigured youngsters....

Am I being over cautious, or rightly wary?

I still wear one upon occasion. Today it was 90 degrees. I wore a 3/4 helmet, no jacket or gloves, jeans and boots for my 100 mile ride.

You never know when you are going to crash, that's true, but sometimes ya just take your chances. Im fully aware I am safer all geared up. I chose not to.

For what its worth I hit a car in the passenger door in 1968, went over the top and landed on head on the other side. I was wearing a Buco open face helmet, and high point safety glasses. I broke my nose and 7 teeth, and got some rash on my lips / gums.


Imo a open face helmet is safer than no helmet or a doo rag, so when wearing one I feel safer than 95% of the riders I pass.

edit..my open face does have a clear wrap around 5 snap face shield for rock/bug protection and also a small black bubble sun visor

 

[Greg_imp]

I'm suspicious of statistics, but this graphic is interesting.



The numbers represent someone's quantifying of helmet impacts. I don't know who counted and how they counted. Also, if something sticks out from your body far enough it's going to get hit 100% of the time, so those 19.4 out of 100 hits landing on a protruding right front quadrant might not necessarily have touched skin and bone. According to this there's almost no point at all in protecting the top of your head or the back of your neck. A helmet designed using just these statistics would look very different than what we're used to.

Moral hazard is a term from the insurance business but it applies to this too. It seems people with insurance are less careful to prevent loss than those without. Thinking that the most expensive full coverage helmet will protect one from whatever happens can lead to less careful riding than if one had no helmet at all.

If someone is convinced a helmet will protect them from anything, they should have no problem diving helmeted-head first off the front porch onto the sidewalk. I doubt anyone would do this and not because it would ruin the helmet.

Also, it seems other people around us can contribute to moral hazard too. Another way of saying this is that other people can consume the safety cushions a careful rider creates around him/herself. Seeing a rider in full protective gear and thinking they are impervious to harm could cause a harried soccer mom to be less concerned with the rider's well being.

I keep thinking about the "safety" post I'm going to write one day, maybe this will get the ball rolling again.

 

[Tortuga_imp]

Despite having a glut of very nice full face helmets. I'm still drawn to an open face number for the summer.

I know this has been discussed before, but is just want to know, has anyone (or anyone they know of) crashed in an open face and come to any harm?

I see so many of the retro/Guzzi boys poncing about in them here and I'm getting slightly jealous.

When I was in Italy a few months ago they were ' de rigour ' and I dint see too many disfigured youngsters....

Am I being over cautious, or rightly wary?

I still wear one upon occasion. Today it was 90 degrees. I wore a 3/4 helmet, no jacket or gloves, jeans and boots for my 100 mile ride.

You never know when you are going to crash, that's true, but sometimes ya just take your chances. Im fully aware I am safer all geared up. I chose not to.

For what its worth I hit a car in the passenger door in 1968, went over the top and landed on head on the other side. I was wearing a Buco open face helmet, and high point safety glasses. I broke my nose and 7 teeth, and got some rash on my lips / gums.


Imo a open face helmet is safer than no helmet or a doo rag, so when wearing one I feel safer than 95% of the riders I pass.

edit..my open face does have a clear wrap around 5 snap face shield for rock/bug protection and also a small black bubble sun visor

I still wear one upon occasion. Today it was 90 degrees. I wore a 3/4 helmet, no jacket or gloves, jeans and boots for my 100 mile ride.

You never know when you are going to crash, that's true, but sometimes ya just take your chances. Im fully aware I am safer all geared up. I chose not to.

For what its worth I hit a car in the passenger door in 1968, went over the top and landed on head on the other side. I was wearing a Buco open face helmet, and high point safety glasses. I broke my nose and 7 teeth, and got some rash on my lips / gums.


Imo a open face helmet is safer than no helmet or a doo rag, so when wearing one I feel safer than 95% of the riders I pass.
The first part filled me with confidence, the second part with dread.

I guess it's like gambling, you can win or lose by taking your chances, I'm still sorely tempted. I've been cocooned behind full face lids all my life, and now that I'm not doing 150+ on a daily basis I think I could be ok with a 'piss pot' as we call them in England.

More replies appreciated.

I'm suspicious of statistics, but this graphic is interesting.



The numbers represent someone's quantifying of helmet impacts. I don't know who counted and how they counted. Also, if something sticks out from your body far enough it's going to get hit 100% of the time, so those 19.4 out of 100 hits landing on a protruding right front quadrant might not necessarily have touched skin and bone. According to this there's almost no point at all in protecting the top of your head or the back of your neck. A helmet designed using just these statistics would look very different than what we're used to.

Moral hazard is a term from the insurance business but it applies to this too. It seems people with insurance are less careful to prevent loss than those without. Thinking that the most expensive full coverage helmet will protect one from whatever happens can lead to less careful riding than if one had no helmet at all.

If someone is convinced a helmet will protect them from anything, they should have no problem diving helmeted-head first off the front porch onto the sidewalk. I doubt anyone would do this and not because it would ruin the helmet.

Also, it seems other people around us can contribute to moral hazard too. Another way of saying this is that other people can consume the safety cushions a careful rider creates around him/herself. Seeing a rider in full protective gear and thinking they are impervious to harm could cause a harried soccer mom to be less concerned with the rider's well being.

I keep thinking about the "safety" post I'm going to write one day, maybe this will get the ball rolling again.

Great mini essay Greg, I'd be interested to read your 'Safety Post' for sure.

It appears I'm going at this the wrong way. What I really need is an 'open top' helmet, like a monk's haircut!

Now that 'would be retro' !!

The Arai Friar Tuck

 

[the Ferret]

Tortuga..truth is riding a motorcycle at all is a gamble with your life. You may protect your head, but a hard enough impact on your chest will tear off your aortic artery and you will bleed to death in seconds.

The absolute best protection is not a helmet, armored jacket, or armored gloves and boots...it 's experience, education and common sense with a keen sense of self preservation. Don't drink and ride, don't speed, don't take unnecessary chances.

Even when you do all of that, fate may have other plans.

Or I as I like to say, when the big guy calls, he never gets a busy signal.

 

[ThomWill_imp]

Risk is a funny business, let's face it, riding a motorcycle is already a safety compromise. I never ride without a helmet but will occasionally wear a 3/4 with face shield on one if the cruisers but not on the CB1100. I wear fingerless deerskin in the summer and mesh jackets not leather. Each of these things is a compromise. We all make different ones, I know ATGATT guys who will gear up and ride somewhere to drink a few beers and then ride home. I NEVER drink and ride. Will I pay for my choices? Maybe, but I make them knowing it is possible.

 

[Tortuga_imp]

Risk is a funny business, let's face it, riding a motorcycle is already a safety compromise. I never ride without a helmet but will occasionally wear a 3/4 with face shield on one if the cruisers but not on the CB1100. I wear fingerless deerskin in the summer and mesh jackets not leather. Each of these things is a compromise. We all make different ones, I know ATGATT guys who will gear up and ride somewhere to drink a few beers and then ride home. I NEVER drink and ride. Will I pay for my choices? Maybe, but I make them knowing it is possible.

May I ask why the cruisers are safe for open face, but not the Honda? Or is it just a 'style thang'?

 

[ThomWill_imp]

It is not a safety thing, it is a wind thing. The shield on my open faced catches ALL the wind from the dart and it is like riding in a blow dryer.

 

[DAC]

You're absolutely right. Motorcycling is a risky activity. We all enjoy it and understand the risks. We can mitigate those risks to a great extent. We can get trained up. We can not drink and ride. We can gear up. We can avoid riding at night. On and on and on.

For my part, most of my loved ones let me back into this sport with some misgivings. The rest will never be comfortable with it. My wife rides and faces the same thing.

The first time I get hurt, those same people will be very difficult when I want back on. And I hope I will want back on.

As far as wanting to minimize the gear we wear a bit? Well, I get it. It's such a visceral thing that less between you and the experience enhances it somehow.

So make your choice and godspeed.

 

[Tortuga_imp]

You're absolutely right. Motorcycling is a risky activity. We all enjoy it and understand the risks. We can mitigate those risks to a great extent. We can get trained up. We can not drink and ride. We can gear up. We can avoid riding at night. On and on and on.

For my part, most of my loved ones let me back into this sport with some misgivings. The rest will never be comfortable with it. My wife rides and faces the same thing.

The first time I get hurt, those same people will be very difficult when I want back on. And I hope I will want back on.

As far as wanting to minimize the gear we wear a bit? Well, I get it. It's such a visceral thing that less between you and the experience enhances it somehow.

So make your choice and godspeed.

Very well put. I'm wrestling with my 'wild side' and my 'sensible Cyril' side. One wants to kill me. The other wants to neuter every experience in life...

 

[ThomWill_imp]

As I think we have discussed at length in another thread, it is not dying that gives me the chills... The overall mortality rate is still a solid 100%. It is the "not quite dying" scenario that gives me pause, but not enough to make me put the kickstand back down.

 

[Tortuga_imp]

As I think we have discussed at length in another thread, it is not dying that gives me the chills... The overall mortality rate is still a solid 100%. It is the "not quite dying" scenario that gives me pause, but not enough to make me put the kickstand back down.

Hey, look at Michael Schumacher, spent years risking like and limb as Formula 1 champion, then retired a few years back and bangs his head skiing. Been in a medically induced coma for months, and just left hospital yesterday, obviously a cabbage by all accounts. Sorry for the graphic language but this just illustrates how the things we fear may not be the things that get us.

Ever seen '1000 ways to die' on TV?

 

[ThomWill_imp]

Oh, I get it, life is totally uncertain. 23 years ago I lost a son at 17 Months old to a very rare and very fast moving bacterial infection. Mor recently my wife and I got run off the road last year in our full sized SUV. She has a leg that has been totally rebuilt and looking at the photos of the vehicle and crash site neither of us should have survived it. After those things the rest of our lives are to be fully enjoyed. I do laugh when people tell me they don't wear a helmet because at high speeds it will not save them... When you fall over in the parking lot at 3 MPH, that is when you will feel pretty silly about dying.

 

[emptysea]

The OP asked if any of us have crashed in an open face helmet. I have not. Nor have I crashed in a full face helmet. I think my survival odds are better with a full face helmet so that's what I wear and it makes me feel safer. You should do what feels right for you. You want to be comfortable and possibly fashionable, but you don't want to be second-guessing your gear choices on the road...you have too many other, more important, things to think about.

 

[Gingersdaddy_imp]

There is risk in everything for sure and sometimes, even with the best of gear you might not recover. I spent 6 years after I quit racing dirt track cars, begging and pleading with my wife to finally agree to let me even look at a motorcycle. She, being a nurse has seen the very worst that can happen. She has ridden with me and likes riding a great deal, she often comments on how differently I drive the motorcycle. I just try to be as safety conscious as I can even though I don't always wear all the right gear. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Wear what you want to wear and have fun.:biker:

 

[thumper_imp]

All of us have an internal "Risk Manager." And as I like to say often, we are all products of our experiences.

The OP asked about crashing in an open-faced helmet. I don't believe I've ever owned one, and at this point in my life I never will. But, I know a CHP officer who crashed his motor (t-boned in an intersection, went over the hood of the car), and had to have numerous reconstructive surgeries to his jaw/chin area.

My interal Risk Manager will allow me to violate a few speed limits on a back road, but he always says "no" to drinking while riding, and wearing sub-standard riding gear.

He's funny that way.

 

[rboe]

I have. Did a header over the handlebars when a pickup clipped my bike. Landed on my face and tumbled. I had on the big amber bubble visor with a flip up option. Shattered the bubble. Got a cut on my cheek from the shattering, black eye, broken ribs etc. This was in 78 I think.

After that accident I went full face and never looked back. Dress for the accident, not the ride. You don't get to choose how you'll crash and in most cases you aren't even allowed to react. Just recover. Stats be damned (I find them useful), the facts are we are very ill equipped to survive a good crash compared to a car with air bags, seat belts, crumple zones etc. so I think it makes perfect sense to grab the advantages that you can and hope you never need to test them.

 

[CIP57_imp]

I rode today 90 degrees humid with a half hat mesh jacket and jeans. Not the way i like to ride its just more comfortable.