Octane Rating

[DGShannon_imp]

Been running ethanol since 2000 in all my vehicles and boat, never an issue. Since nothing I have is a high compression engine, regular works fine. My emergency generator never fails to start even after a year, my chainsaw, lawn mower, even the 200hp Merc jet pump on the boat starts whenever I want them to. Ethenol reduces our dependence on foreign oil, makes money for the farmers, and reduces air pollution. I can't argue with that.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.
Exactly. It is a total farce. Do some digging to see how much water gets wasted in the production of 1 gallon of ethanol. Or, look at the recent studies on pollution in areas where ethanol is heavily used (such as Brazil) and you find that it is not what was expected. Levels of benzene and butadiene dropped, but formaldehyde and acetaldehyde rose, which ends up being a wash. In hindsight, the whole ethanol thing was a stupid distraction from real advances, but now the lobbyists for the corn growing interest have to be defeated, which means the people have to educate themselves.

 

[xNE0x_imp]

I recently found out that one of my local gas stations is selling ethanol free gas 90 octane. They call it "rec" fuel. I wondered if anyone else runs this stuff in their cb1100? Kind of expensive gas too.

 

[BIGGREEK_imp]

Ran it yesterday..granted I'm still in break in, got an average of 48 mpg vs 44 on 93 e10

 

[the_undecider_imp]

Ran it yesterday..granted I'm still in break in, got an average of 48 mpg vs 44 on 93 e10

Close to 10% better mpg on pure gas. That's consistent with what I saw when all the local stations went to E10 and every vehicle I owned started getting 10% lower mpg. My FJR1300 went from getting 50 mpg down to 45, Wife's Civic 30 down to 27 mpg, and my Toyota Tacoma 21 to 19 mpg.

Sorta makes you question whether ethanol reduces emissions when you end up burning more fuel. I echo the sentiments already expressed on how nasty this fuel is. My lawnmower no longer runs right after last winter. I hate it.

 

[mininsx_imp]

There is more gasoline in one gallon of 87 than 93 octane. That is because they use additives to increase the octane rating. I never run higher octane than specified unless it's my old truck. It's got a little higher compression than stock thanks to 140,000 miles of carbon build up.

Reflashing the computer will advance timing and may require higher octane to prevent predetonation. I reflashed my 2013 Mustang and had various tunes with various octane requirements.

Some cars can tell what octane is being used and adjust parameters accordingly. Advertised power ratings are sometimes based on premium grade fuel. I would assume the ECU on the CB is relatively simple and doesn't adapt in this manner.

Sorry, but that's an "old wive's tale." I worked in a refinery for 33 years, and they use different blend stock material for a low octane blend as opposed to a high octane blend. "Additives" don't figure into it during the blending process, they're added at the truck loading rack.

Sorry, but that's an "old wive's tale." I worked in a refinery for 33 years, and they use different blend stock material for a low octane blend as opposed to a high octane blend. "Additives" don't figure into it during the blending process, they're added at the truck loading rack.
Interesting. I always thought gasoline was gasoline, but additives were used to differentiate octane ratings and different types of detergents based on brand (Chevron Techron for instance).

Can you explain more what different blend stocks are and how that can change octane? How does that differ versus an octane booster additive like what you buy at the parts store?

Sorry, but that's an "old wive's tale." I worked in a refinery for 33 years, and they use different blend stock material for a low octane blend as opposed to a high octane blend. "Additives" don't figure into it during the blending process, they're added at the truck loading rack.
Interesting. I always thought gasoline was gasoline, but additives were used to differentiate octane ratings and different types of detergents based on brand (Chevron Techron for instance).

Can you explain more what different blend stocks are and how that can change octane? How does that differ versus an octane booster additive like what you buy at the parts store?
I can give a little information, but my job was receiving the finished gasoline blend into storage tanks, not doing the actual blend. There were two units in the plant that made most of the gasoline blend stock: a Low Pressure CCR (low octane) and a High Pressure CCR (high octane). There are other ingredients that make up the blend such as butane, but each blend has a specific end result (87 or 93 octane) in mind when it's started, therefore they start with either low octane or high octane blend stock. A side note: refineries now shoot for a 85.5 octane number on a regular blend that will have ethanol injected into the truck at the loading rack because the ethanol brings the octane rating up to 87. That way they don't "give away" octane and they save money. As for additives that you buy at the auto parts store, they work, but you could go to Lowe's and buy a gallon to toluene (121 Octane) and get the same result. We used to make some stuff called Cumene that had a 130 octane rating.

 

[OldF7Guy_imp]

Been running ethanol since 2000 in all my vehicles and boat, never an issue. Since nothing I have is a high compression engine, regular works fine. My emergency generator never fails to start even after a year, my chainsaw, lawn mower, even the 200hp Merc jet pump on the boat starts whenever I want them to. Ethenol reduces our dependence on foreign oil, makes money for the farmers, and reduces air pollution. I can't argue with that.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.
Exactly. It is a total farce. Do some digging to see how much water gets wasted in the production of 1 gallon of ethanol. Or, look at the recent studies on pollution in areas where ethanol is heavily used (such as Brazil) and you find that it is not what was expected. Levels of benzene and butadiene dropped, but formaldehyde and acetaldehyde rose, which ends up being a wash. In hindsight, the whole ethanol thing was a stupid distraction from real advances, but now the lobbyists for the corn growing interest have to be defeated, which means the people have to educate themselves.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.
Exactly. It is a total farce. Do some digging to see how much water gets wasted in the production of 1 gallon of ethanol. Or, look at the recent studies on pollution in areas where ethanol is heavily used (such as Brazil) and you find that it is not what was expected. Levels of benzene and butadiene dropped, but formaldehyde and acetaldehyde rose, which ends up being a wash. In hindsight, the whole ethanol thing was a stupid distraction from real advances, but now the lobbyists for the corn growing interest have to be defeated, which means the people have to educate themselves.
+ ONE DG Shannon. People need to get educated on this stuff. Ethanol is not our friend in the USA. Anytime I hear of a new technology that is enviromentally friendly I want to see the cost/benifit comparison asap. THose reports seldom come. I am dealing with this right now in my church with some nut that is sold on solar panels. I told them point blank to make a business case for it and they cant. Case closed. The examples go on and on but you get the point.

 

[ClassicVW_imp]

There's a lot of info to digest with regard to solar panels and cost savings. Around here, the power companies have been given a mandate to generate 5% of their power from solar. ( or is it renewable in general? I forget ) In addition to putting panels on most utility poles, they are giving homeowners solar panels + installation for free and guaranteeing a lower price for electricity for many years. Sounds good, and it does give you some savings, but around here, gas is used for heating and cooking, so the electricity portion of our bills isn't all that huge, as we mostly have around 2200sq ft homes anyway. The house two doors down had to have the panels removed soon after installation as the roof started to leak. I've also seen some less than pretty installation jobs.

 

[Django]

Using energy from oil, gas or coal is like living from the savings (which may be used up at some time), while utilizing sun energy in any form (also wind and waves) is like living from the current income.

jm2c

 

[Elipten_imp]

To keep on topic I put 22 solar panels on my house 1 Dec of 2013. Have generated 9.064 mega watts of power since install. In Texas more AC than heating. I even use the solar to run the battery tenders on my two CB1100 bikes. Payback will be less than 5 years. Roof leaking is garbage contractor of which there are many.

No regrets, best thing I did, just wish house had electric hot water and heating.


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[Randy B]

My guess is the roof leaked because it was old and they wanted to try and cheap out on it and not replace the old wood when it was probably marginal to start out with. Just a hunch.

 

[DGShannon_imp]

Been running ethanol since 2000 in all my vehicles and boat, never an issue. Since nothing I have is a high compression engine, regular works fine. My emergency generator never fails to start even after a year, my chainsaw, lawn mower, even the 200hp Merc jet pump on the boat starts whenever I want them to. Ethenol reduces our dependence on foreign oil, makes money for the farmers, and reduces air pollution. I can't argue with that.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.
Exactly. It is a total farce. Do some digging to see how much water gets wasted in the production of 1 gallon of ethanol. Or, look at the recent studies on pollution in areas where ethanol is heavily used (such as Brazil) and you find that it is not what was expected. Levels of benzene and butadiene dropped, but formaldehyde and acetaldehyde rose, which ends up being a wash. In hindsight, the whole ethanol thing was a stupid distraction from real advances, but now the lobbyists for the corn growing interest have to be defeated, which means the people have to educate themselves.

Ethanol is all about there being an over abundance of corn in the U.S. And there being some senior senators from corn growing states that have the power to ram bad ideas down everyones throats. Period.
It doesn't make any sense from an environmental standpoint either, since it's been proven it takes more energy to produce the same amount of ethanol from corn, as opposed to refining that same amount of gasoline.
Exactly. It is a total farce. Do some digging to see how much water gets wasted in the production of 1 gallon of ethanol. Or, look at the recent studies on pollution in areas where ethanol is heavily used (such as Brazil) and you find that it is not what was expected. Levels of benzene and butadiene dropped, but formaldehyde and acetaldehyde rose, which ends up being a wash. In hindsight, the whole ethanol thing was a stupid distraction from real advances, but now the lobbyists for the corn growing interest have to be defeated, which means the people have to educate themselves.
+ ONE DG Shannon. People need to get educated on this stuff. Ethanol is not our friend in the USA. Anytime I hear of a new technology that is enviromentally friendly I want to see the cost/benifit comparison asap. THose reports seldom come. I am dealing with this right now in my church with some nut that is sold on solar panels. I told them point blank to make a business case for it and they cant. Case closed. The examples go on and on but you get the point.

Let's see if we can get this topic back onto fuel. Speaking of ethanol, here is an episode of Jay Leno's garage, where he talks a bit about damage done to some of his vehicles...

I implore you guys to join and support a group, such as the American Motorcyclists Association, that fights in Washington to protect us from the further damage that will come from higher levels of this stuff.

 

[Powerdogg55]

I recently found out that one of my local gas stations is selling ethanol free gas 90 octane. They call it "rec" fuel. I wondered if anyone else runs this stuff in their cb1100? Kind of expensive gas too.

This is all that I have run in my CB since day one. Sure it costs a little more but topping off the tank doesn't break the bank. My bike performs extremely well with "real gas". I've experienced problems with lawn mowers, weed eaters, and chain saws with ethanol fuels. No longer use it for any of my gasoline powered equipment.

 

[NightRider_imp]

I run non-ethanol regular. I hope it will help keep her running for a long time. I currently have a full tank with gas stabilizer while she is waiting for spring.

 

[flynrider]

The two big issues with ethanol are 1) vehicles that sit for long periods and 2) older vehicles with incompatible fuel system components.

Fortunately for me, my two bikes and truck all get enough use to get a new tank of gas at least once a month and the only vehicle old enough to have an incompatible fuel system is my plane, which isn't allowed to run anything with ethanol.

As such, even though ethanol fuel has been mandated in my area for many years, I haven't had any ethanol related issues. For those with old bikes or bikes that spend time in storage (like Jay Leno), this can be a real pain. The only real fix is to update older fuel systems and make sure to use an ethanol free fuel when the bike is going to sit. In most metro areas where ethanol is mandated by the EPA, you can by ethanol free specialty racing gas (with various octane ratings) from speed shops when you're going to store the bike.

 

[Randy B]

The two big issues with ethanol are 1) vehicles that sit for long periods and 2) older vehicles with incompatible fuel system components.

Fortunately for me, my two bikes and truck all get enough use to get a new tank of gas at least once a month and the only vehicle old enough to have an incompatible fuel system is my plane, which isn't allowed to run anything with ethanol.

As such, even though ethanol fuel has been mandated in my area for many years, I haven't had any ethanol related issues. For those with old bikes or bikes that spend time in storage (like Jay Leno), this can be a real pain. The only real fix is to update older fuel systems and make sure to use an ethanol free fuel when the bike is going to sit. In most metro areas where ethanol is mandated by the EPA, you can by ethanol free specialty racing gas (with various octane ratings) from speed shops when you're going to store the bike.

This should be a wake up call to just how bad ethanol blended fuels really are.

 

[mininsx_imp]

The ethanol industry wouldn't exist if not for federal subsidies. Remember when ethanol plants sprung up back in the eighties and then disappeared? The feds yanked the rug out from under them and they went out of business because the business model doesn't work without subsidies.

 

[NightRider_imp]

Here in the country, the McMinnville area of middle Tennessee, we have non-ethanol regular always available. I know of three gas stations around my house that carry it. It seems to be popular here and so they carry it with at least one pump. One gas station carries it on most of it's pumps instead of diesel, there pumps have three grades of ethanol based gas and one regular grade of real gas. No limits to purchasing it except it is only available in regular grade.

 

[flynrider]

The two big issues with ethanol are 1) vehicles that sit for long periods and 2) older vehicles with incompatible fuel system components.

Fortunately for me, my two bikes and truck all get enough use to get a new tank of gas at least once a month and the only vehicle old enough to have an incompatible fuel system is my plane, which isn't allowed to run anything with ethanol.

As such, even though ethanol fuel has been mandated in my area for many years, I haven't had any ethanol related issues. For those with old bikes or bikes that spend time in storage (like Jay Leno), this can be a real pain. The only real fix is to update older fuel systems and make sure to use an ethanol free fuel when the bike is going to sit. In most metro areas where ethanol is mandated by the EPA, you can by ethanol free specialty racing gas (with various octane ratings) from speed shops when you're going to store the bike.

This should be a wake up call to just how bad ethanol blended fuels really are.

This should be a wake up call to just how bad ethanol blended fuels really are.
The reason is pretty simple. Most of the General Aviation fleet was built in the 60s - 80s, before auto fuel was routinely tainted with alcohol. Certain fuel system components can react badly when exposed to it.

When they first started putting ethanol in the local gas, my '59 Cessna (which was running car gas) got a bad case of the melting carb floats. My '69 Mercury ragtop had a couple of rubber fuel lines swell up like Ball Park Franks.

 

[Pauley]

Does CA put extra ethanol in the gas for winter? I've noticed about a 10% decrease in mpg lately.


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[mininsx_imp]

Does CA put extra ethanol in the gas for winter? I've noticed about a 10% decrease in mpg lately.


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The difference you note is not from more ethanol (they can't do that), it's from more butane mixed into the blend. Depending on where you live the refineries change the blend and add more butane in winter so that the mixture vaporizes easier inside the combustion chamber. More butane equals less mileage.