New 2014 DLX downshift issues

[tbone455_imp]

Just picked up my bike the other day. It now has 100 miles on it. I have noticed from time to time an issue with downshifting. I don't always downshift one gear at a time. Sometimes I coast to a red light with the clutch in And downshift through all the gears to first. But sometimes with the clutch in, The gear indicator on the instrument panel will go from indicating whatever gear I was in to just showing a dash line (-) and I can't get down to a lower gear without letting the clutch out a little and then starting over with the downshift.
Is anyone else noticing a similar problem?

 

[pechorin75_imp]

I don't have a gear indicator, but my '13 does the same thing from time to time. Seems like I saw a mention of the same issue in a magazine review of the bike. Think it's just a quirk...not an indication of mechanical trouble w the gearbox. I've gotten used to it and just anticipate that it might happen if I do multiple downshifts.

 

[the Ferret]

in the manual this tells you it's a malfunction code for shifting improperly.

The best way to avoid it is to quit trying to down shift all the gears at once while stopped. Down shift as you are rolling, using the engine to help slow you down. It's better on the trans ( gears mesh better when they are moving) and it's better on the brakes.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

In many cases I downshift multiple gears w/ the clutch in, but I generally do it slowly as I decelerate to a stop, rather than all at once. That seems to work pretty well most of the time.

As far as engaging the clutch in each gear (using engine braking to help slow down)...maybe this is just one of those "agree to disagree" things, but I've always heard the "saves brakes" argument countered with the "I'd rather wear out my cheap brake pads than my expensive clutch" argument.

That said, I suppose if you're rev matching properly on the downshifts it probably doesn't cause much extra wear on the clutch.

 

[avsbezzy_imp]

in the manual this tells you it's a malfunction code for shifting improperly.

The best way to avoid it is to quit trying to down shift all the gears at once while stopped. Down shift as you are rolling, using the engine to help slow you down. It's better on the trans ( gears mesh better when they are moving) and it's better on the brakes.

Blipping the throttle between each gear will ease the downshifting, make a cool sound between your legs and your tranny will thank you for many years. Mine is shifting very smooth at 1200 miles on 10w40 (@ 1000 miles) semi synth in hot temp today(85 heavy city traffic).

 

[Randy B]

I will downshift all at once, but do it as I'm moving so if the traffic starts to move I'm in the proper gear to start out and not have to hunt for the correct gear to be in. If you try and downshift from 5th to 1st while stopped most bikes won't like that (in my experience). It's like trying to get the bike gear when it's not running. You'll have to roll be rear tire or start it to get it to shift because that's how the transmission is designed to work.
So there is nothing wrong with the trans, just shift it while you are in motion and all will be right with the world.

 

[the Ferret]

Pechorin..if the clutch is engaged, it's engaged. you won't wear it out, it's fully engaged, not partially engaged. Anecdotally all I have ever owned is stick shift cars and motorcycles. I have never replaced a clutch in any vehicle I have owned (or transmission either) Many of the cars have had over 250,000 mikes (for the last 24 years I was an over the road salesman). the other side of the coin is I usually get 120,000 miles out of the front brakes and over 200,000 on the rear brakes on my cars. much less of course on motorcycles., but on my FZ and ST brakes usually last about 25,000 miles.I have 39,000 miles on my ST, brakes have been replaced once and I will check them again at about 50,000.

 

[flynrider]

Just picked up my bike the other day. It now has 100 miles on it. I have noticed from time to time an issue with downshifting. I don't always downshift one gear at a time. Sometimes I coast to a red light with the clutch in And downshift through all the gears to first. But sometimes with the clutch in, The gear indicator on the instrument panel will go from indicating whatever gear I was in to just showing a dash line (-) and I can't get down to a lower gear without letting the clutch out a little and then starting over with the downshift.
Is anyone else noticing a similar problem?

My '13 does this on occasion. I've noticed that it mostly happens when I'm coasting (with the clutch lever pulled in) up an off ramp toward a stop. If I start downshifting while I'm still moving at a decent clip, no problem. If I try to go from 5th to 1st below 15 mph or so, I sometimes get only to third and have to let the clutch out to the friction point to keep going.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

Agreed...if I'm downshifting multiple gears, I try to stretch out the process such that I'm in a good gear for the speed I'm traveling, should I need to accelerate for some reason. As others said, I rarely have issues w/ the transmission not wanting to move down through the gears in that situation. I also feel like there's a small safety benefit in that using the brakes more makes it more likely that vehicles behind will realize I'm slowing down (of course, you could just drag a brake to get the same effect).

Ferret...not discounting your experience; clearly clutch wear hasn't been a problem for you. But what do you mean, "if the clutch is engaged, it's fully engaged, you won't wear it out"? That's certainly true...but how are you keeping the clutch fully engaged while downshifting into each gear? Is there such a thing as clutchless downshifting? I know people often upshift that way, but I've never heard of it going the other direction (not that that means much).

If not, then each time you downshift into a new gear, you're disengaging the clutch (i.e., pulling the lever), changing the gear, and then re-engaging the clutch (i.e., letting out the lever, preferably while rev-matching with the throttle)--right? Which means that going into each gear there's a full cycle of the clutch, with some (preferably small) amount of slippage each time. That's what I was talking about when I said "engaging the clutch in each gear."

 

[the Ferret]

Yes, disengage clutch (pull lever in), shift ( either up or down), engage clutch ( let lever back out)...same going up thru the gears or down thru the gears. There is no difference a shift cycle is a shift cycle. It is a machine, it has no conscious thought as to whether you are shifting up or down.

And with regards to engine braking it is no different then coming up to a corner, backing off the throttle, allowing the engine to slow down the bike before hitting the apex, and then throttling back out the other side.

 

[tbone455_imp]

I will downshift all at once, but do it as I'm moving so if the traffic starts to move I'm in the proper gear to start out and not have to hunt for the correct gear to be in. If you try and downshift from 5th to 1st while stopped most bikes won't like that (in my experience). It's like trying to get the bike gear when it's not running. You'll have to roll be rear tire or start it to get it to shift because that's how the transmission is designed to work.
So there is nothing wrong with the trans, just shift it while you are in motion and all will be right with the world.

I should have stated better: I DO the downshifting as you are doing-as I am still moving and slowing down. But on occasion the display will go from showing "6" to "-" and I am still slowing while trying to deal with this. This is something I would do on the Goldwing for 20 years with no problems. To my way of thinking, it should be an optional way to coast with engine at idle while down "clicking" through the gears. So is this a poor habit?

 

[Randy B]

You might be doing it too slowly as I never have an issue with it. I'm usually hitting 1st gear at about 15 mph soo...
If I do it too close to 10 mph it doesn't like it so it's either 15 mph or at a stop.

 

[tbone455_imp]

You might be doing it too slowly as I never have an issue with it. I'm usually hitting 1st gear at about 15 mph soo...
If I do it too close to 10 mph it doesn't like it so it's either 15 mph or at a stop.

Well every bike model is different and for me it'll just be an adjustment I will have to make in technique. No biggie. I can't wait to ride it :celebrate:

 

[pechorin75_imp]

I will downshift all at once, but do it as I'm moving so if the traffic starts to move I'm in the proper gear to start out and not have to hunt for the correct gear to be in. If you try and downshift from 5th to 1st while stopped most bikes won't like that (in my experience). It's like trying to get the bike gear when it's not running. You'll have to roll be rear tire or start it to get it to shift because that's how the transmission is designed to work.
So there is nothing wrong with the trans, just shift it while you are in motion and all will be right with the world.

I should have stated better: I DO the downshifting as you are doing-as I am still moving and slowing down. But on occasion the display will go from showing "6" to "-" and I am still slowing while trying to deal with this. This is something I would do on the Goldwing for 20 years with no problems. To my way of thinking, it should be an optional way to coast with engine at idle while down "clicking" through the gears. So is this a poor habit?

If it's a poor habit, this is the first I've heard of it. I could see grounds for criticism if you were habitually pulling in the clutch at 65 mph, braking to a stop, and then sitting there at a standstill clicking down through the gears. First because you wouldn't be in the right gear to accelerate at any given time, and second because transmissions don't seem to like that very well.

But doing it as you're describing, moving down through the gears at appropriate shift points, with the clutch fully disengaged? Personally, in all my years of riding ATVs and motorcycles, I've never encountered any problems as a result of that. I don't do it that way every time...but likewise, I don't see any compelling reason to always hit every single gear on the the way from 5th (or 6th) down to first.

 

[OldF7Guy_imp]

You might be doing it too slowly as I never have an issue with it. I'm usually hitting 1st gear at about 15 mph soo...
If I do it too close to 10 mph it doesn't like it so it's either 15 mph or at a stop.

Well every bike model is different and for me it'll just be an adjustment I will have to make in technique. No biggie. I can't wait to ride it :celebrate:

Well every bike model is different and for me it'll just be an adjustment I will have to make in technique. No biggie. I can't wait to ride it :celebrate:
They are all a little different. I could rev match my old Sportster as good as could be but still am trying to find out how to do the same on my 750 Nighthawk and just cant seem to find the sweet spot as of yet. I think part of my problem is that I forget the Nighthawk likes to rev much more. Just totally different animals with the same rider trying to adapt.

 

[Cormanus]

tbone, someone, somewhere else on the forum reported this. My recollection is that they said they got the "--" when they had their foot resting on the gear lever when the bike was in first. If I can find the thread, I bung in a link to it.

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

You might be doing it too slowly as I never have an issue with it. I'm usually hitting 1st gear at about 15 mph soo...
If I do it too close to 10 mph it doesn't like it so it's either 15 mph or at a stop.

Agreed. Great thing about this forum is that it gets you thinking about a lot you take for granted. Another nice thing is that if "you haven't got it quite right" the time in the stocks is fairly short and the thrown fruit not too hard

Cheers.

 

[wayne van horn_imp]

tbone455 you only have 100 miles on the bike, it takes a lot more then that to find out what your bike likes & doesn't like.

 

[tbone455_imp]

You might be doing it too slowly as I never have an issue with it. I'm usually hitting 1st gear at about 15 mph soo...
If I do it too close to 10 mph it doesn't like it so it's either 15 mph or at a stop.

Agreed. Great thing about this forum is that it gets you thinking about a lot you take for granted. Another nice thing is that if "you haven't got it quite right" the time in the stocks is fairly short and the thrown fruit not too hard

Cheers.

Agreed. Great thing about this forum is that it gets you thinking about a lot you take for granted. Another nice thing is that if "you haven't got it quite right" the time in the stocks is fairly short and the thrown fruit not too hard

Cheers.
Well put brother, well put.

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

ferret is right; the clutch plates aren't acting like a brake pad and disk. They snap together and then the engine does the work of slowing the bike as it pumps air. If you bother to blip the throttle properly as you downshift, you will have virtually no friction on the plates. And even if you don't, you'll still never wear out a clutch unless you simply don't know how to use it.

I've been hearing that old saw about "brakes jobs are cheaper than clutch repairs" since I started driving, and it's just wrong. Ask any professional driver or mechanic and they'll advise downshifting to slow your vehicle; either going down a mountain or coming to a stop sign.