Need some help guys

[CIP57_imp]

This is a link to view the rim. Its worse in real time but you can see its out of round.

Better view from the top:

Adjusting my chain the other day noticed high and low spots spinning the wheel as if in there was a kink. No kinks in the chain. Put her on the centerstand in 1st gear and noticed the inner hub was not true or out of round. The outer rim is fine to the naked eye. Put a set point on the sprocket where the shock meets the frame little half moon area and sprocket is ever so slightly out of true.

While picking up oil at local dealer not mine i put a CB on the centerstand and the the chain was true as it should be.

Went to me dealer on Saturday and had him observe. He sew the center hub out of round and chain movement and called Honda yesterday.

There response was that its not possible, these molds are checked for tolerance daily. We'll this threw a red flag lol. If mine were out there would have to many other. If a few of you could check your inner hub it would be appreciated before i meet with the rep.

BTW this is something a tech would never pick up on during service

My build date is 2/2013 last four 0838

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Lord Popgun]

This is a link to view the rim. Its worse in real time but you can see its out of round.

Better view from the top:

Adjusting my chain the other day noticed high and low spots spinning the wheel as if in there was a kink. No kinks in the chain. Put her on the centerstand in 1st gear and noticed the inner hub was not true or out of round. The outer rim is fine to the naked eye. Put a set point on the sprocket where the shock meets the frame little half moon area and sprocket is ever so slightly out of true.

While picking up oil at local dealer not mine i put a CB on the centerstand and the the chain was true as it should be.

Went to me dealer on Saturday and had him observe. He sew the center hub out of round and chain movement and called Honda yesterday.

There response was that its not possible, these molds are checked for tolerance daily. We'll this threw a red flag lol. If mine were out there would have to many other. If a few of you could check your inner hub it would be appreciated before i meet with the rep.

BTW this is something a tech would never pick up on during service

My build date is 2/2013 last four 0838

Thanks,
Steve

Yeah, and(for some of us) our brakes are just fine too

 

[Deanohh_imp]

You have to measure it with some precision or you won't get anywhere because there no doubt a spec for how much run out is allowed. The dealer should have done that because they should have the tools to do it within .1 mm. You should be able to get within .5 mm with a cheap caliper and your pointer to measure the max to min of your run out (out of round) of your sprocket. The casting surface is less important than the machining. So if you can determine its 3mm or 1mm or 1.6mm it means a lot more than you can see it wobble a little. It needs to be checked with a precision "indicator" for lateral and radial run out by the dealer, and compared to what's allowed to know how far "out" it is. Then it becomes a warranty issue that Honda can't argue about.

 

[Lord Popgun]

This is a link to view the rim. Its worse in real time but you can see its out of round.

Better view from the top:

Adjusting my chain the other day noticed high and low spots spinning the wheel as if in there was a kink. No kinks in the chain. Put her on the centerstand in 1st gear and noticed the inner hub was not true or out of round. The outer rim is fine to the naked eye. Put a set point on the sprocket where the shock meets the frame little half moon area and sprocket is ever so slightly out of true.

While picking up oil at local dealer not mine i put a CB on the centerstand and the the chain was true as it should be.

Went to me dealer on Saturday and had him observe. He sew the center hub out of round and chain movement and called Honda yesterday.

There response was that its not possible, these molds are checked for tolerance daily. We'll this threw a red flag lol. If mine were out there would have to many other. If a few of you could check your inner hub it would be appreciated before i meet with the rep.

BTW this is something a tech would never pick up on during service

My build date is 2/2013 last four 0838

Thanks,
Steve

Yeah, and(for some of us) our brakes are just fine too

 

[CIP57_imp]

You have to measure it with some precision or you won't get anywhere because there no doubt a spec for how much run out is allowed. The dealer should have done that because they should have the tools to do it within .1 mm. You should be able to get within .5 mm with a cheap caliper and your pointer to measure the max to min of your run out (out of round) of your sprocket. The casting surface is less important than the machining. So if you can determine its 3mm or 1mm or 1.6mm it means a lot more than you can see it wobble a little. It needs to be checked with a precision "indicator" for lateral and radial run out by the dealer, and compared to what's allowed to know how far "out" it is. Then it becomes a warranty issue that Honda can't argue about.

Thank you Dean for putting me in the right direction. You are far more knowledgeable than I with this issue.

 

[Deanohh_imp]

I measured and analyzed heavy duty truck wheel hubs production and warranty for many years. Problems were rarely with the castings (molds) but almost always with the machining of bearing bores and other critical surfaces. Even when done by state of the art equipment, some variation is acceptable, but errors sometimes can happen and cause unacceptable out of tolerance misalignments.

 

[CIP57_imp]

It is not at all unusual for the chain to have tight spots but I think you know this. The sprocket/cush drive assembly is never going to be perfectly true, in fact it is designed to flex a bit. Bicycles exhibit the same thing, which appears as a "wobble" in the rear cassette. I take it you are saying the entire wheel itself may be defective as the inner hub, spokes, and outer wheel are all one single casting. So it sounds like you suspect you have a bad wheel. However the rear sprocket and cush drive assembly could be your culprit. A worn or defective sprocket (I know it sounds unlikely for a new bike but it's possible anyway) can easily cause what you are describing as could a faulty cush drive.

As someone mentioned the whole rear wheel/sprocket/cush drive needs to be removed and inspected carefully and as always if the bike is under warranty Honda needs to look at it and warranty the issue if one is found.

There again, given this bike is made in Honda's most modern, advanced plant this sounds like an odd occurence but must be investigated.
The cast of the wheel could be by design, that's why i asked for some help.

[/QUOTE]It is not at all unusual for the chain to have tight spots but I think you know this. The sprocket/cush drive assembly is never going to be perfectly true, in fact it is designed to flex a bit.

Stretch, your absolutely correct, there is no tolerance for a spinning sprocket, their rubber mounted.

 

[CIP57_imp]

I just took a close look at my rear wheel/cush drive/chain assembly and it is perfect. Bike has ~1100 miles but has been zipped to redline many times and not mollycoddled. Adjusted chain at first service.

What you are calling the inner hub is what I would call the cush drive assembly. A chain with tight/loose spots can most definitely cause this to "wobble" a bit.




Stretch, My rim ( where flange sub ass. and damper set enter the rim ) is out of round. can be seen by just spinning the wheel. Thanks for looking.

 

[Deanohh_imp]

In the video I see the chain running true and the wheel rim (where the tire is) running true. Also the little shiny (machined) strip on the edge of the driven flange is running true. The painted as cast area of the wheel hub is varying a little but I think that's ok because the machined surfaces that really count are running straight. I don't see how that could affect the chain.

on my wheel, the machined diameter on the driven flange doesn't match (is a little higher 1-2mm) the diameter the of of the painted as cast wheel hub of on one side but its almost perfectly even with it on the opposite side. I think its fine as long as it can be balanced and the machined parts turn straight. No problem with chain.

 

[Lord Popgun]

I looked in the service manual and it specs runout as .2mm for the axle, and 2mm for the wheel, axial and lateral, at the rim.

I don't know if that is a lot or a normal amount, maybe Dean or Stretch can comment.

 

[CIP57_imp]

I looked in the service manual and it specs runout as .2mm for the axle, and 2mm for the wheel, axial and lateral, at the rim.

I don't know if that is a lot or a normal amount, maybe Dean or Stretch can comment.

Thanks Pop helpful information

 

[dBuster_imp]

In the video I see the chain running true and the wheel rim (where the tire is) running true. Also the little shiny (machined) strip on the edge of the driven flange is running true. The painted as cast area of the wheel hub is varying a little but I think that's ok because the machined surfaces that really count are running straight. I don't see how that could affect the chain.

on my wheel, the machined diameter on the driven flange doesn't match (is a little higher 1-2mm) the diameter the of of the painted as cast wheel hub of on one side but its almost perfectly even with it on the opposite side. I think its fine as long as it can be balanced and the machined parts turn straight. No problem with chain.

Maybe it is my old eyes... but when like Deanohh said looking at the machined strip it looks good and running true to me as well. Now I see the tire maybe has a spot on it that when you look at the tire itself it looks off. Same with both videos.

but then again, to some of us, there is nothing wrong with the rear brake.....

 

[XeNoSCR_imp]

I just watched the videos a couple times, then took a piece of paper and held it over the playing video so I was only seeing the sprocket, then so I was only seeing the very edge of the rim. When viewed that way, they appear to be running true. I think the casting/machining of the rest of the rim combined with some uneven painting perhaps is off a bit but, the the important parts seem to be running true.

Only one way to be sure, have it measured I guess but when you remove seeing the unevenness of the casting/machining of wheel, the rest seems right. Seeing it all together might be a bit misleading due to the optical illusion it might create?

EDIT: You got me curious enough to go check mine out. I just put my bike on the center stand, fired it up, and put it in gear. I see the same "wobble" in the casted center hub area, maybe not as bad but, it's there. The whole drive sprocket area was true to the eye. I closed one eye and lined up what the parts list calls the "RING, RR. PULSER" with the bottom of the center stand mount. I was not able to observe any amount of wobble/out-of-roundness with my naked eye. Seems good to me.

XeNoSCR

 

[CIP57_imp]

I just watched the videos a couple times, then took a piece of paper and held it over the playing video so I was only seeing the sprocket, then so I was only seeing the very edge of the rim. When viewed that way, they appear to be running true. I think the casting/machining of the rest of the rim combined with some uneven painting perhaps is off a bit but, the the important parts seem to be running true.

Only one way to be sure, have it measured I guess but when you remove seeing the unevenness of the casting/machining of wheel, the rest seems right. Seeing it all together might be a bit misleading due to the optical illusion it might create?

EDIT: You got me curious enough to go check mine out. I just put my bike on the center stand, fired it up, and put it in gear. I see the same "wobble" in the casted center hub area, maybe not as bad but, it's there. The whole drive sprocket area was true to the eye. I closed one eye and lined up what the parts list calls the "RING, RR. PULSER" with the bottom of the center stand mount. I was not able to observe any amount of wobble/out-of-roundness with my naked eye. Seems good to me.

XeNoSCR

Thanks for checking.

Sent video to dealer who forwarded it to the reg. rep for the area. He was concerned enough to forward the video to techs in CA. I'm waiting for a response. Thanks Again

 

[736cc_imp]

Wheel needs to be removed and set on balancing stand w/ a dial gauge set-up. Mechanic will measure actual run-out in several different positions (much like truing a spoked rim).
The tire would wobble if rim was out of true, and tire does not appear to do so in video.
One possible explanation (if the wheel is determined true) is that the perceived wobble is an optical illusion because of where the paint is contrasted against the aluminum on rim is not symmetrically perfectly painted (like a slight spiral).