Lane splitting (sharing) interview

[curlyjoe]

Yes, joe, I think that's a view that informs many opponents of lane splitting and filtering. But, what then of overtaking?

Overtaking (legal) is allowed for all motorized vehicles. I think laws that only benefit a subset of motorized vehicles is unfair.

 

[Cormanus]

I would normally be inclined to agree with you, but it seems to me there are some complex issues for regulators in the question of whether to allow lane splitting which have to be weighed against fairness.

The first is whether you want to do whatever you can to reduce congestion. Allowing motorcycles to do what they can to get out of the way helps with at, albeit to a limited extent, particularly if you use the speed rules that apply in Australia.

The second is whether you want to reduce the number of motor vehicles on the road, particularly those carrying only one person. If it becomes a great deal quicker and more efficient for people to use scooters and motorcycles to commute, it may turn people from cars to bikes. Allowing motorcycles to filter will also reduce the amount of time they are sitting in traffic burning fuel when it isn't necessary.

I don't know about the USA; but elsewhere in the world, having come to the realisation that building more and better roads simply encourages the appearance of cars, governments are doing what they can to reduce the number of them. They are building dedicated bikeways for cycles, legalising filtering for motorcycles under prescribed conditions, imposing stiff tolls on cars in some city areas, and building lanes that can be used only by cars with more than one or two occupants. Such transit lanes can usually also be used by motorcycles. I read yesterday that that the City of London is thinking of imposing an additional toll on vehicles entering the city which do not meet a very high standards of emission control (Euro 4, I think).

So, consideration of filtering is not so much about advantaging motorcycles as taking steps to decrease the attractiveness of commuting by car.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Yes, joe, I think that's a view that informs many opponents of lane splitting and filtering. But, what then of overtaking?

Overtaking (legal) is allowed for all motorized vehicles. I think laws that only benefit a subset of motorized vehicles is unfair.

Overtaking (legal) is allowed for all motorized vehicles. I think laws that only benefit a subset of motorized vehicles is unfair. The particular vulnerabilities of each class of vehicle are considered. 18-wheelers have an enormous body of regulations, not to mention fees, which apply to the vehicles as well as their drivers. As you move further down the food chain, the regulations become less and less, and the privileges increase. Pedestrians always have the right of way, as do bicycles. They can do the least damage and pose the least threat, and have the least advantages and protections. Motorcycles are only a step above bicycles; any practice that allows motorcycles to use their maneuverabilty to flow more effectively through traffic, and to park in a smaller space not usable by an automobile, is advantageous and safer for all motorists. Such practices reduce the exposure to risk and the elements that the motorcyclist has has to incur while in traffic.

As with flying, the biggest, heaviest craft or vehicle (think A380) is the most regulated. The lightest, least maneuverable craft (the balloon) has the most privileges and the least regulation. Helicopters have some additional privileges and strictures based on their maneuverability.

I would normally be inclined to agree with you, but it seems to me there are some complex issues for regulators in the question of whether to allow lane splitting which have to be weighed against fairness.

The first is whether you want to do whatever you can to reduce congestion. Allowing motorcycles to do what they can to get out of the way helps with at, albeit to a limited extent, particularly if you use the speed rules that apply in Australia.

The second is whether you want to reduce the number of motor vehicles on the road, particularly those carrying only one person. If it becomes a great deal quicker and more efficient for people to use scooters and motorcycles to commute, it may turn people from cars to bikes. Allowing motorcycles to filter will also reduce the amount of time they are sitting in traffic burning fuel when it isn't necessary.

I don't know about the USA; but elsewhere in the world, having come to the realisation that building more and better roads simply encourages the appearance of cars, governments are doing what they can to reduce the number of them. They are building dedicated bikeways for cycles, legalising filtering for motorcycles under prescribed conditions, imposing stiff tolls on cars in some city areas, and building lanes that can be used only by cars with more than one or two occupants. Such transit lanes can usually also be used by motorcycles. I read yesterday that that the City of London is thinking of imposing an additional toll on vehicles entering the city which do not meet a very high standards of emission control (Euro 4, I think).

So, consideration of filtering is not so much about advantaging motorcycles as taking steps to decrease the attractiveness of commuting by car.

Paris recently enacted regulations similar to this, banning all cars not made after 1997 (over 20 years old).

California is building high-speed rail now, and Los Angeles is hard at work on creating bicycle routes and lanes. Anything that will reduce the number of cars is a good thing, but these efforts also improve the quality of life in these locations.

 

[curlyjoe]

Your points are quite valid, Cormanus. The Australian rules look reasonable and perhaps motorist behavior is more civilized there. In the Northeast metro areas, roads are deteriorating, vehicles are getting bigger and it seems drivers are getting more aggressive every year. If you add lane splitting and filtering to the mix in the Boston metro area, I would fear for motorcyclist safety. I certainly wouldn't do it for fear of assault by an angry motorist.

However, it may work just fine in some parts of the world.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

To me, lane splitting and filtering is anti-social behavior and is equivalent to cutting in at the front of the que. I doubt any of us would cut in front of the que at a grocery store check out line so why do it on the road?

At a line in the grocery store, everyone has the same destination. How can it be "cutting in front" when the motorcyclist is going somewhere else? Also, he or she is only using the pavement under their wheels, not the pavement any automobile or truck is using. It's like shifting at a high RPM, we taxpayers paid for all the pavement so why not use it to get where we are going?

At any rate, in California this practice has been going on for a very long time, many decades. It works here. It's never been against the law. And maybe what it shows is that people tend to tolerate, for the most part, things that help everyone get along better.

 

[the Ferret]

On todays ride I thought a lot about this thread. I tried running 18 mph for awhile as is the limit in Australia when filtering. Imagined running between a line of cars. It is kind of slow lol. Tried in first and second gears. In second it's like 1500 rpms. in first IIRC it was around 3000 rpms? The line had better be short that you're filtering on because you are not going to pass many unless it's a long light. If there are a lot of cars you have to pass I imagine they will be taking off before you get to the head of the line and you are going to have to merge left or right into a lane. A better speed for me seemed to be between 25 and 30 mph, in second gear.

So I headed to the freeway since I had to run across town to the Guzzi dealer to pick up a can of Plexus for my brother. Yea at this time of day there wasn't enough traffic to play the splitting game unless you were just picking off 1 vehicle at a time.



one thing I noticed on our roads were hthe pot holes all seemed to be right where a motorcycle would be splitting on the striped lane divides

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/DSCF4073_zpsdh2rz9zo.jpg.html]

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/DSCF4074_zpsg9n6ffrc.jpg.html]

here you can see where the state has come thru and just patched right where the lane dividers are

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/DSCF4071_zpspoutcoet.jpg.html]

I did come up behind vehicles that were running side by side and skooched over on the lane divider looking at the distance between them to imagine going through. I thought Naaaa not me lol. Could probably do it, but I don't have to...... thank goodness

 

[Rebel73_imp]

My rule of thumb:

No lane splitting if traffic is going 30+ mph. At anything below 30, I do lane split but no more than 15mph above the speed of traffic. I also turn on my headlight modulator and cover my brakes.

 

[Cormanus]

You were scooting along there, Ferret.

 

[the Ferret]

speed limit is 65, I was +5, my usual lol ...and getting passed on both sides

 

[lola_imp]

Look at how clean that freeway is... No tar snakes and little bitty pot holes, wish California roads were like that.

Efforts are being made to make Californians even more aware of motorcylists out in the wild concrete jungle in general using Radio and TV ads and even a billboard near where I live which is cool to see every now and again. It's just that some motorcyclists abuse that privilege we have (lane splitting) speed and aggressiveness in its action is what makes it dangerous in the eye of the public and some riders as well that are not familiar with lane splitting. We Californians are just lucky I guess.

I cant see myself sitting behind a lifted diesel truck with a 4 barrel 4 inch diameter exhausts in front of my face and my air cooled CB cooking legs to a crisp in 100 degree weather.

 

[Randy B]

Look at how clean that freeway is... No tar snakes and little bitty pot holes, wish California roads were like that.

Efforts are being made to make Californians even more aware of motorcylists out in the wild concrete jungle in general using Radio and TV ads and even a billboard near where I live which is cool to see every now and again. It's just that some motorcyclists abuse that privilege we have (lane splitting) speed and aggressiveness in its action is what makes it dangerous in the eye of the public and some riders as well that are not familiar with lane splitting. We Californians are just lucky I guess.

I cant see myself sitting behind a lifted diesel truck with a 4 barrel 4 inch diameter exhausts in front of my face and my air cooled CB cooking legs to a crisp in 100 degree weather.

That would be covered with graffiti 5 minutes after it went up around here. The little punks are REALLY bad about that in this neck of the woods.

 

[lola_imp]

Oh yes Randy that billboard did not last long but good efforts by the California highway patrol while it lasted.

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

To me, lane splitting and filtering is anti-social behavior and is equivalent to cutting in at the front of the que. I doubt any of us would cut in front of the que at a grocery store check out line so why do it on the road?

Familiar with express lanes? Grocery stores have lines specifically for those with fewer items (smaller vehicles) while those with more items (larger vehicles) wait in line for each other. Trying to block people on motorcycles, bicycles, rollerblades, etc when you are waiting for other cars, trucks, and buses *is* antisocial.

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

On todays ride I thought a lot about this thread. I tried running 18 mph for awhile as is the limit in Australia when filtering. Imagined running between a line of cars. It is kind of slow lol. Tried in first and second gears. In second it's like 1500 rpms. in first IIRC it was around 3000 rpms? The line had better be short that you're filtering on because you are not going to pass many unless it's a long light. If there are a lot of cars you have to pass I imagine they will be taking off before you get to the head of the line and you are going to have to merge left or right into a lane. A better speed for me seemed to be between 25 and 30 mph, in second gear.

So I headed to the freeway since I had to run across town to the Guzzi dealer to pick up a can of Plexus for my brother. Yea at this time of day there wasn't enough traffic to play the splitting game unless you were just picking off 1 vehicle at a time.



one thing I noticed on our roads were hthe pot holes all seemed to be right where a motorcycle would be splitting on the striped lane divides

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/DSCF4073_zpsdh2rz9zo.jpg.html]

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/DSCF4074_zpsg9n6ffrc.jpg.html]

here you can see where the state has come thru and just patched right where the lane dividers are

[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/theferret111/media/DSCF4071_zpspoutcoet.jpg.html]

I did come up behind vehicles that were running side by side and skooched over on the lane divider looking at the distance between them to imagine going through. I thought Naaaa not me lol. Could probably do it, but I don't have to...... thank goodness

Ferret, I don't think you quite get it. You are hung up on the 30kph speed and then go to a lightly trafficked, fast moving, freeway to check it out. That is nonsense and not what our filtering laws were designed for. Did you look at the video I posted in [URL=https://cb1100forum.net/posts/849891/]this post?. The traffic in that vid is peak hour, bumper to bumper and stop and go. This is where filtering is very useful.

For example, on a hot summers day I get up early to ride one of my favourite roads, the Putty Loop. After 350kms of enjoyable riding I arrive back in Sydney at about 4:30pm. The peak hour traffic is building. I can be faced with about 10kms of walking pace traffic, most of which is in a hot, poorly ventilated (unless you are in a cage with a beaut recycling air conditioning unit) cross city tunnel. Outside of peak hour it flows well but for about three hours a day it is a nightmare of stop and start and speeds rarely exceeding 15kph. To sit and stare through the rear window of a car, at the back of a bus or 18 wheeler while overheating and breathing hot exhaust gas is not a good place to be. So is it stop and go and crawl at sub 30kph speeds, or do I choose to filter at up to 30kph? Have a guess.

Cheers

 

[the Ferret]

:rofl: No no no Ptero I didn't try and do 18 mph on the freeway .... I'd have gotten run over. I was on a back road with no traffic. I understand perfectly what your filtering law and speed is all about. I wanted to see what riding 18 mph for a bit was like since I never do that in everyday riding. Try riding 100 yards at 18 mph sometime. It takes for ev er. Kinda like a slow race at a field meet.

 

[dsinned_imp]

Another factor in favor of lane splitting and/or filtering is FATIGUE. Riding a motorcycle at very slow speed is VERY tiring. Constantly clutching/shifting between lower gears, keeping the bike balanced and going straight, watching out for all the cars around you, and image how much more difficult this would be with a passenger. Not to mention, if it is really warm outside, and you have a full face helmet on, the human body is literally being dehydrated more and more with every mile of impeded traffic.

The example given of being stuck in a long tunnel, gasping for clean air, is another reason for getting further ahead PRONTO.

Again, I do it in moderation as a circumstantial means to an end, to get out of a horrible riding environment! If it is like a parking lot for miles on end, I will usually take the next off ramp and look for a nice air conditioned restaurant to kill time while having a meal to let the traffic clear. In the worse case scenario, I might even turn around and go back the other way - which is usually free of traffic - if I had just set out from home.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Another factor in favor of lane splitting and/or filtering is FATIGUE. Riding a motorcycle at very slow speed is VERY tiring. Constantly clutching/shifting between lower gears, keeping the bike balanced and going straight, watching out for all the cars around you, and image how much more difficult this would be with a passenger. Not to mention, if it is really warm outside, and you have a full face helmet on, the human body is literally being dehydrated more and more with every mile of impeded traffic.

The example given of being stuck in a long tunnel, gasping for clean air, is another reason for getting further ahead PRONTO.

Again, I do it in moderation as a circumstantial means to an end, to get out of a horrible riding environment! If it is like a parking lot for miles on end, I will usually take the next off ramp and look for a nice air conditioned restaurant to kill time while having a meal to let the traffic clear. In the worse case scenario, I might even turn around and go back the other way - which is usually free of traffic - if I had just set out from home.

Yeah, had to do it today, situation just about like the motor officer's. Only for about a mile or so, though. Agree about the offramp and restaurant. That's why commuting can be such an issue, you HAVE to get to work and are forced to deal with that stuff no matter if you are really up to it or not.

 

[Lunatic Fringe_imp]

What say ye Randy, Ulve, MMC, Aschem, Lunatic, Retsel et al can you guys keep to down to max 30 kph (18 mph?)

Ulve that would no doubt require you to be under 4500 rpms lol

If that's what I was held to by some legislation I would happily do it rather than sitting in traffic waiting to get rear ended. When I filter to the front of the line on city streets I have no problem riding with feet up at a walking pace maneuvering between cars on my vfr or on my Bking.

Generally my freeway lane splitting looks a lot like the video posted earlier in this thread, steady and always in control.

For all those citing reports, stats etc to say how dangerous splitting is ...well we all are living in glass houses here. I'm used to riding in mega traffic big cities so I'm comfortable riding in heavy traffic. Personally I feel 18 mph is a bit to conservative and it would never be accepted in California, certainly not here in the Bay Area.

Like someone said, no one forces you to split traffic, even in sunny California.

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

:rofl: No no no Ptero I didn't try and do 18 mph on the freeway .... I'd have gotten run over. I was on a back road with no traffic. I understand perfectly what your filtering law and speed is all about. I wanted to see what riding 18 mph for a bit was like since I never do that in everyday riding. Try riding 100 yards at 18 mph sometime. It takes for ev er. Kinda like a slow race at a field meet.

Sorry, I haven't made myself clear. I have filtered at speeds of up to 30kph for kilometre after kilometre after kilometre. Often. I haven't tried yards or mph since 1970, but I imagine the effect would not be much different . Believe me, when filtering through stationary or very slow moving bumper to bumper traffic 30kph seems like supersonic flight. You should try it sometime. Try it on a very hot day. You will have the added bonus of air flowing over you and through the oil cooler. Luxury. And not only that you will be at home having your second cup of tea before the first cager you passed is off the freeway.

Cheers

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

And that's a back road? I thought you lived in the scrub. In Oz that is a major road.