Kinda Porky

[thessler3_imp]

The deluxe version of the 2014 CB1100 gained thirty pounds. It is listed as 570+ pounds on Honda's website. Regular 2014 models are listed at 540 pounds full of fluids. Second muffler must be pretty heavy. Perhaps that includes ABS also, which is supposed to add 9 lbs.

Honda's have rarely been very light, but this is kind of porky for a naked bike. My last Speed Triple and Tuono V4 were about 475 lbs. My KTM Superduke and Foggy Monster were lighter yet. Porky or not, I like the CB1100 but I will stick with the standard 2013 CB1100 and add an Arrow slip-on.

 

[the Ferret]

New muffler weighs 15 pounds extra, ABS 9 pounds, Gasoline 4 pounds (remember that's a wet weight) that's 28 of the extra pounds... metal sprocket cover? additional electronics for fuel guage, gear indicator etc? 6th gear plus asst shims?

it all adds up

Remember this is an old school bike..steel frame, metal tank. metal fenders, centerstand, 2 rear shocks, 4 into 2 exhaust..not a lot of weight savings going on here. You can make them lighter. I think ACK got his down to 480 lbs?

Interestingly the 1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 weighed 563 with 2.2 gallons of gas in the tank (ie: would have weighed more than the 14 dlx with a full tank of gas), made a few less horsepower and a few pounds less torque.

 

[thessler3_imp]

Perhaps a minor correction, but I believe the 540 lbs 2014 standard model also includes the 6 speed trans. Possibly may also include sprocket cover, fuel gauge, gear indicator but to be fair, I am uncertain of any of those bits. 570 lbs is still pretty heavy for a naked bike, especially when the CB1000R is under 500lbs. My friend's Kawasaki ZRX 1200 is about 525lbs. CB1100 is a very nice bike, but nothing wrong with wishing it were about 50lbs lighter. I wish I was a bit lighter myself.

 

[the Ferret]

I didn't notice, but how could the 14 std weigh exact same as 13 std? with as we mentioned extra gear and electronics? I think the std counter sprocket cover is still plastic.

regardless hard to compare this with a modern bike using modern materials. CB1000 has how many shocks?does it have a centerstand? what kind of frame aluminum? aluminum or steel tank? what kind of exhaust? 4 into 1 shorty?

I wish the CB weighed less too... unfortunately it doesn't.
Comparing it to the classis of yore. Or having fun with numbers

68 Honda CB 750. 67 hp @9000 rpms. Weight 491 wet
,
72 Kawasaki Z-1 900.... 82 hp @8500 rpms. Weight 511 dry

80 Suzuki GS 1100 ..... 87 hp @ 8000 rpms Weight 563 wet

78 Yamaha XS 1100 ...95 hp @ 8500 rpms. Weight 630 wet

2013 Honda CB1100 ....87 hp @ 7500 rpms. Weight 540 wet. Big Grin

Now I also had a 2001 Yamaha FZ 1 with 125 hp that weighed 510 pounds. Its an amazing machine. Trouble is most of those horses come stampeding in between 8,000 and 12000 rpms. Personally, I never rode in that rev range, 100 % of my riding was below 6000 rpms and the FZ made plenty of power for me below 6000 rpms. According to the dyno at 6000 rpms the FZ1 is making 65 hp. The CB will possibly be making more hp than the FZ in the rev range I rode in.

My ST 1300 makes about 92 horses @ 6000 rpms (and peak at 112 hp @8000 rpms).... Thats pretty good, and a little more powerful than the CB 1100 for real world riding, but it weighs 716 wet.

 

[Guth_imp]

This bike has always been about "the feel" or overall riding / ownership experience rather than flat out performance. To that effect, the only time I've really noticed the weight of the CB1100 is when I'm rolling it around in the garage. I'm guessing that the 14 DLX will be very similar in that regard.


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[pechorin75_imp]

No, there's nothing wrong with wishing it were a bit lighter...but that said, what difference does it really make? Granted, I'm used to handling big, heavy bikes, but the CB doesn't feel at all heavy to me, either in terms of handling or just lifting it on/off the side or center stands (in fact, if I didn't know, I'd guess it was actually lighter than the ZRX1100 I own--it certainly turns in quicker). It still accelerates fast enough, even stock, to embarrass all but the quickest sports cars. I doubt the extra pounds on the '14 deluxe will change that very much.

Bottom line, the bike simply isn't meant to play on the same field as a modern sporting machine, naked or not. That extra 50 pounds matters almost entirely at the outer margin of the performance envelope, which is a place where maybe 1 or 2 percent of owners will ever take it. For those who want a more competitive sport machine w/ the retro looks, it can be made to lose some weight and gain some horsepower...but it's never gonna be a CBR1000RR.

Which is why they make CBR1000RRs.

This isn't really directed at you, thessler, but in the digital camera world, there's a certain contingent of enthusiasts who focus almost entirely on technical specs, and in the process completely lose sight of the big picture--which is that the camera is ultimately just a tool used to capture an image; and that it's the image rather than the camera that ultimately matters. In reading comments on sites like Motorcycledaily lately, it seems like we've got something similar going on in the motorcycle world. You get the sense that the "peanut gallery" wouldn't be satisfied until somebody came out with a 220hp, 325lb bike that was completely docile on the street ("great first bike!"), handled like a MotoGP bike, rode like a Cadillac, had comfortable, adjustable ergonomics, got 60mpg, had hydraulic valve lifters, came with 500-mile seat comfortable for every rear-end, could tour like a Goldwing, looked exactly like a classic 1978 whatever (but better), had a centerstand, was belt or shaft driven....etc. And even then they'd find something to complain about ("Ugh! What were they thinking with that horrible speedometer font??")

 

[hedstrom_imp]

One's impression as to weight is dependent on what they are transitioning from. In my case it's a Kawasaki Concours. Therefore I expect that I'll find the 2014 CB1100 Deluxe to be light and nimble. Everything is relative.
On a related issue - has it been confirmed that the sprocket cover on the 2014 is aluminum, not just shiny, silver plastic?

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

One's impression as to weight is dependent on what they are transitioning from. In my case it's a Kawasaki Concours. Therefore I expect that I'll find the 2014 CB1100 Deluxe to be light and nimble. Everything is relative.
On a related issue - has it been confirmed that the sprocket cover on the 2014 is aluminum, not just shiny, silver plastic?

Agreed. After 5 years on a VStrom 1000 going to the CB was like trading a Yukon for a Bugeye Sprite. Which might be odd because their weights aren't that different. I think its because the CB carries its weight well; the CG is low and the bike is extremely well-balanced.

 

[Tortuga_imp]

This bike has always been about "the feel" or overall riding / ownership experience rather than flat out performance. To that effect, the only time I've really noticed the weight of the CB1100 is when I'm rolling it around in the garage. I'm guessing that the 14 DLX will be very similar in that regard.


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Bingo. That's it, right there, in a nutshell!!

That's what brought me to this bike, and that's why I couldn't quantify why I love it so much.

It's an emotional thing, not a rational thing.

We aren't BHP junkies, or gear ratio nerds, we're people who have connected with a motorcycle on an emotional level and have found what we wanted.. A good old powerful, smooth, comfy motorbike. Sorted.

One's impression as to weight is dependent on what they are transitioning from. In my case it's a Kawasaki Concours. Therefore I expect that I'll find the 2014 CB1100 Deluxe to be light and nimble. Everything is relative.
On a related issue - has it been confirmed that the sprocket cover on the 2014 is aluminum, not just shiny, silver plastic?

Agreed. After 5 years on a VStrom 1000 going to the CB was like trading a Yukon for a Bugeye Sprite. Which might be odd because their weights aren't that different. I think its because the CB carries its weight well; the CG is low and the bike is extremely well-balanced.

Agreed. After 5 years on a VStrom 1000 going to the CB was like trading a Yukon for a Bugeye Sprite. Which might be odd because their weights aren't that different. I think its because the CB carries its weight well; the CG is low and the bike is extremely well-balanced.
Hear hear!

No, there's nothing wrong with wishing it were a bit lighter...but that said, what difference does it really make? Granted, I'm used to handling big, heavy bikes, but the CB doesn't feel at all heavy to me, either in terms of handling or just lifting it on/off the side or center stands (in fact, if I didn't know, I'd guess it was actually lighter than the ZRX1100 I own--it certainly turns in quicker). It still accelerates fast enough, even stock, to embarrass all but the quickest sports cars. I doubt the extra pounds on the '14 deluxe will change that very much.

Bottom line, the bike simply isn't meant to play on the same field as a modern sporting machine, naked or not. That extra 50 pounds matters almost entirely at the outer margin of the performance envelope, which is a place where maybe 1 or 2 percent of owners will ever take it. For those who want a more competitive sport machine w/ the retro looks, it can be made to lose some weight and gain some horsepower...but it's never gonna be a CBR1000RR.

Which is why they make CBR1000RRs.

This isn't really directed at you, thessler, but in the digital camera world, there's a certain contingent of enthusiasts who focus almost entirely on technical specs, and in the process completely lose sight of the big picture--which is that the camera is ultimately just a tool used to capture an image; and that it's the image rather than the camera that ultimately matters. In reading comments on sites like Motorcycledaily lately, it seems like we've got something similar going on in the motorcycle world. You get the sense that the "peanut gallery" wouldn't be satisfied until somebody came out with a 220hp, 325lb bike that was completely docile on the street ("great first bike!"), handled like a MotoGP bike, rode like a Cadillac, had comfortable, adjustable ergonomics, got 60mpg, had hydraulic valve lifters, came with 500-mile seat comfortable for every rear-end, could tour like a Goldwing, looked exactly like a classic 1978 whatever (but better), had a centerstand, was belt or shaft driven....etc. And even then they'd find something to complain about ("Ugh! What were they thinking with that horrible speedometer font??")

You've hit the nail on the head. Want fast naked Honda? Buy CB1000R, want something totally unique? Buy CB1100. Not a bike trying to me more than a lush experience and thus a keeper in my and many others books.

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

Tortuga, Pechorin 75, Guth. You have summed up the CB experience eloquently. Well done.

Cheers

 

[Tortuga_imp]

Tortuga, Pechorin 75, Guth. You have summed up the CB experience eloquently. Well done.

Cheers

Thanks mate. Good to see someone else 'gets it' ! :beerchug:

 

[Guth_imp]

One's impression as to weight is dependent on what they are transitioning from. In my case it's a Kawasaki Concours. Therefore I expect that I'll find the 2014 CB1100 Deluxe to be light and nimble. Everything is relative.
On a related issue - has it been confirmed that the sprocket cover on the 2014 is aluminum, not just shiny, silver plastic?

This is an excellent point. I switch back and forth between my CB1100 and a Honda Hawk GT, with is not only light at just over 400 pounds, but is also small compared to the CB1100. However, it doesn't take long on either bike to forget about the differences and just enjoy them for what they are.

 

[Tortuga_imp]

Good point Guth, weight on any well sorted motorcycle soon dissipates once the gyroscopic effect of speed takes over.

This can be as little as 4 mph.

If you don't believe me watch this..

 

[rboe]

My Griso is supposed to be lighter but feels heavier and is not as flickable. The CB feels lighter, handles the tight twisty bits better and is not that hard to pick up (neither is the Griso ) if layer down.

 

[hedstrom_imp]

One's impression as to weight is dependent on what they are transitioning from. In my case it's a Kawasaki Concours. Therefore I expect that I'll find the 2014 CB1100 Deluxe to be light and nimble. Everything is relative.
On a related issue - has it been confirmed that the sprocket cover on the 2014 is aluminum, not just shiny, silver plastic?

Agreed. After 5 years on a VStrom 1000 going to the CB was like trading a Yukon for a Bugeye Sprite. Which might be odd because their weights aren't that different. I think its because the CB carries its weight well; the CG is low and the bike is extremely well-balanced.

Agreed. After 5 years on a VStrom 1000 going to the CB was like trading a Yukon for a Bugeye Sprite. Which might be odd because their weights aren't that different. I think its because the CB carries its weight well; the CG is low and the bike is extremely well-balanced.
Yeah, and the Concours IS heavier, plus it has a very high C/G. When pushing it around the garage, if you let it lean more than a couple degrees away from you... you'll be practicing the motorcycle lifting techniques described elsewhere on this forum.

 

[Capo]

Spec sheets are the last refuge of scoundrels. And we are scoundrels! Imagine if weight and horsepower weren't published for any bike. My hunch is that most would guess the CB was a bit lighter AND more powerful than it actually is. The biggest determinant of a bike feeling heavy versus actually being heavy, IMHO, other than in the twisties or low speed, comes in the garage. And handlebar shape/ placement and fuel tank center of gravity have a lot to do with that. Triumph Triples like my Daytona 900 are notoriously 'top heavy' due to a tall engine, high and wide fuel tank, and various bar shapes. The balance point on them is relatively narrow at zero mph.

 

[the Ferret]

One's impression as to weight is dependent on what they are transitioning from. In my case it's a Kawasaki Concours. Therefore I expect that I'll find the 2014 CB1100 Deluxe to be light and nimble. Everything is relative.
On a related issue - has it been confirmed that the sprocket cover on the 2014 is aluminum, not just shiny, silver plastic?

Agreed. After 5 years on a VStrom 1000 going to the CB was like trading a Yukon for a Bugeye Sprite. Which might be odd because their weights aren't that different. I think its because the CB carries its weight well; the CG is low and the bike is extremely well-balanced.

Agreed. After 5 years on a VStrom 1000 going to the CB was like trading a Yukon for a Bugeye Sprite. Which might be odd because their weights aren't that different. I think its because the CB carries its weight well; the CG is low and the bike is extremely well-balanced.
Yeah, and the Concours IS heavier, plus it has a very high C/G. When pushing it around the garage, if you let it lean more than a couple degrees away from you... you'll be practicing the motorcycle lifting techniques described elsewhere on this forum.

Same with my 717 pound ST 1300. I have had so many " oh crap" moments pushing it around where it " almost" listed to the port side going basically zero mph

In comparison the CB feels like a 125 dirt bike

 

[wildezt_imp]

The big red's an emotional bike for many of us here..ever since they released it in Japan in 2010, I was aching for Honda to bring it over to the States..and man when they finally did and I saw her in the shop waiting for me..wow..I just went many years back in time with her predecessors......everytime when i take her out . its a trip down memory lane ..and her beauty and smoothness just adds alot more to it... ahhh feels good just thinking of her.

 

[thessler3_imp]

All the comments are valid, but so is my point - the Cb1100 is a bit on the heavy side for a naked bike, but it depends on what you are comparing it to. Yes, it is easier to handle than my Gold Wing by a large margin and it is also lighter than many other bikes of similar displacement. My point is that it would be better still if it was lighter by about 50 pounds. The physics is simple - it would accelerate faster, stop quicker and go around corners quicker if it were lighter. It is simply a matter of cost benefit - it costs a lot more to make a lighter bike and the CB1100 is pretty inexpensive - quite a good deal actually. Obviously steel is both cheaper and heavier than aluminum, magnesium, titanium, plastic and carbon fiber.

Bikes in general are getting bigger and heavier. Nearly every "light" bike I have owned in the last 20 years has recently been increased in displacement and added a lot of weight. 650's and 750's used to be "big" bikes. Now they are "middle weights". My personal experience is that lighter bikes are easier to ride, all else being equal.

 

[Red Mist_imp]

All the comments are valid, but so is my point - the Cb1100 is a bit on the heavy side for a naked bike, but it depends on what you are comparing it to. Yes, it is easier to handle than my Gold Wing by a large margin and it is also lighter than many other bikes of similar displacement. My point is that it would be better still if it was lighter by about 50 pounds. The physics is simple - it would accelerate faster, stop quicker and go around corners quicker if it were lighter. It is simply a matter of cost benefit - it costs a lot more to make a lighter bike and the CB1100 is pretty inexpensive - quite a good deal actually. Obviously steel is both cheaper and heavier than aluminum, magnesium, titanium, plastic and carbon fiber.

Bikes in general are getting bigger and heavier. Nearly every "light" bike I have owned in the last 20 years has recently been increased in displacement and added a lot of weight. 650's and 750's used to be "big" bikes. Now they are "middle weights". My personal experience is that lighter bikes are easier to ride, all else being equal.

Yep.

What's funny about all this is cars are similar. I just got a 2014 Malibu 2.0 Turbo which makes 259 HP and 295 lbs/ft of torque. That's similar to the Mustang of the mid-60s with the 289 HiPo V8, but the Mustang weighed 1000 lbs less. The ~2L turbocharged engine has taken the place of the baby V8's across the board and has a hell of a lot of performance, but a half-ton more weight?

That weight all went to a much stronger chassis and safety features, infotainment systems, computer systems, and so on. But what's very interesting is that the Malibu is a much faster car despite its weight "disadvantage". The Mustang's top speed is maybe 120 mph for anyone nuts enough to try it; Malibu 2.0T is a measured 155 mph. 0-60, Mustang, is 8.3 seconds, where the Malibu can do it in 6.1 seconds (Malibu specs are from Car and Driver's road test).

It's in the efficiencies, there is far less friction loss in modern engines with modern oils, the design is more efficient, the car is drastically more aerodynamic, and the six-speed automatic transmission is a huge help.

Another interesting point is that the Malibu is actually faster than the Impala, a car that makes 305 HP and weighs only 100 pounds more, but can barely get up to a measly 149 mph because of the additional drag of the larger frame. Quarter-mile and 0-60 times are identical. So all that additional power is still not sufficient to go "faster". Gas mileage is better on the Malibu, too, so I guess one can sometimes have cake and eat it, too.

The CB1100 may LOOK like a retro bike but as I demonstrated to myself this afternoon, the engine still revs like a modern motorcycle and I ride it like I would a modern 600cc sportbike, mostly in the upper third of the tach. It loves it. Might be heavier than some bikes but it's pretty efficient overall.