I have two challenges... shifting down and checking the oil level

[Inhouse Bob]

1) If I'm at a full stop and am still in second or third gear, it is generally impossible to downshift without some clutch work and it's annoying. I don't often get into that situation, but a quick stop can find me there. Am I doing something wrong? Everyone talks about the buttery transmission, but I'm not really feeling it. Often when I am slowing, it'll get stuck in third or second while still in motion, and then I'm fishing around for a gear and tweeking the clutch and trying not to hit the guy in front of me and that ain't right.
This is a '13 with the five speed.
2) I can't see a thing in the oil window. Maybe I need new glasses, but it is so small and it is too dark to tell whether there is oil in there or not. Even leaning it way over either way reveals nothing. Must be some oil, as it hasn't eaten itself yet. I tried a flashlight, but still can't be sure of anything. Suggestions?

Thanks for listening. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[kmoney_imp]

I've had that gear problem somewhat on every bike I've owned (including the CB). I've never found a way around it -- there are no clutch adjustments on the CB save for putting the lever on its farthest position to give a longer throw -- and have just ingrained the habit to keep kicking for 1st if I'm stopping suddenly. I've never had a bike I could make shift into first from third at a standstill unless I feathered the clutch or rocked it forward and back a bit.

Oil, I always needed a pen flashlight to see it -- though running Motul 300v now I can see it, as it's neon green. Keep in mind that a normal "full" fill will only be visible when on the center stand.

 

[Randy B]

A motorcycle transmission needs to be spinning to shift more than a gear to shift properly so downshift while you are moving, even slowly, and you won't have the issue.

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

1) If I'm at a full stop and am still in second or third gear, it is generally impossible to downshift without some clutch work and it's annoying. I don't often get into that situation, but a quick stop can find me there. Am I doing something wrong? Everyone talks about the buttery transmission, but I'm not really feeling it. Often when I am slowing, it'll get stuck in third or second while still in motion, and then I'm fishing around for a gear and tweeking the clutch and trying not to hit the guy in front of me and that ain't right.
This is a '13 with the five speed.
2) I can't see a thing in the oil window. Maybe I need new glasses, but it is so small and it is too dark to tell whether there is oil in there or not. Even leaning it way over either way reveals nothing. Must be some oil, as it hasn't eaten itself yet. I tried a flashlight, but still can't be sure of anything. Suggestions?

Thanks for listening. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Bob, run the engine until the oil is hot. Shut it down. Put the bike up on the centre stand on a level surface. Make sure the sight glass is clean by cleaning the outside of the glass and then rotating, with a flat screwdriver, the interior glass cleaning device. Using a torch (flashlight?), check the oil level while the bike is on the centre stand and the engine has been shut down for a minimum of two minutes (I think the Owners Manual gives advice on this). Ideally you should see oil, dark or light brown, up to a level between the full and refill lines. Above this you should be able to see a metallic (silver) background. Just as a check, if you can't see see the metallic background then put the bike on the side stand. This should allow the oil to drain to the left side of the sump (?). If you still can't see the metallic bit the bike may have been grossly overfilled. If you can see the metallic bit while the bike is on the side stand the oil has been overfilled, but not grossly. In either case drain some oil off. If, while the bike is on centre stand, all you can see is the metallic background then the oil needs topping up. The metallic background is very easy to see and the oil level is quite apparent if the glass is clean so you should not be in doubt as to the oil level.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

 

[the Ferret]

Heres another thought. I am assuming you have less than 600 miles on the bike you are still running factory oil. These bikes come over filled from the factory, therefore the window is completely covered with oil and it's difficult to tell how full it is. The entire window will be dark.
Once you do your 600 mile service you can put in a couple ounces less than what is called for and then sneak up on the upper line on the case, so it's easier to see the true level. My brpther and I have a philosophy, once we change our oil, and since we do it ourselves we KNOW how much oil we put in, unless it's burning oil or leaking oil there is no need to check it between 4000 mile changes.

And Randy is right, motorcycle transmissions do not like being down shifted multiple times at once while not moving. Sometimes someone in front of us short stops and catches us in say third. In this instance you will need to let the clutch out far enough to engage ( bit not necessarily move the bike) then pull it back in and continue down shifting. Nature of the beast. This should be rare though, we can usually down shift a gear or two at a time and arrive at our stop in first gear.

 

[redbirds_imp]

Another thought for what it's worth, when my 2013 was new I was not completely satisfied with the shift quality either. The shift from 4th to 5th would sometimes give a false neutral and neutral was a bit hard to find when stopped. At the second oil change I switched to Shell Rotella T6 synthetic 5W-40 (please, not trying to start an oil thread) and within a hundred miles afterwards the shift problems were gone. That being said, with the onset of winter I switched back to the Honda 10W-30 synthetic and the shift quality remained good. Perhaps just needed time for the tranny to break in properly.
And my engine was overfilled with oil at delivery but I have found that to be the case with most new bikes.

 

[DGShannon_imp]

Another thought for what it's worth, when my 2013 was new I was not completely satisfied with the shift quality either. The shift from 4th to 5th would sometimes give a false neutral and neutral was a bit hard to find when stopped. At the second oil change I switched to Shell Rotella T6 synthetic 5W-40 (please, not trying to start an oil thread) and within a hundred miles afterwards the shift problems were gone. That being said, with the onset of winter I switched back to the Honda 10W-30 synthetic and the shift quality remained good. Perhaps just needed time for the tranny to break in properly.
And my engine was overfilled with oil at delivery but I have found that to be the case with most new bikes.

That is what I experienced with my 2013. It was prone to not want to make the shift from 2nd to 3rd. And, shifting in general was a bit notchy. Improved with time, and now it is the best transmission I have ever had. (Running non-synthetic Honda 10W-30)

 

[Inhouse Bob]

Thanks all.
I will review my manual for the sight-glass cleaning procedure, which I was unaware of. What will they come up with next?
I'm at 594 miles, so I suppose it is almost time for the 600 mile oil change :clap: That might well make everything clearer, so to speak.
As for the transmission, I will wait a few more miles before cursing the bike again. One of those add-on gear indicators would do me a lot of good, too, I suppose. I often find I am in a higher gear when stopping than I thought. By the time I figure it out, I'm stopped and annoyed again. Counting from one to five isn't so hard... it's the counting from five to one that is the tricky part
Now, I gotta go review me some oil threads

 

[the Ferret]

So you have a 13 5 speed? This may help

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=202

 

[DGShannon_imp]

Thanks all.
I will review my manual for the sight-glass cleaning procedure, which I was unaware of. What will they come up with next?
I'm at 594 miles, so I suppose it is almost time for the 600 mile oil change :clap: That might well make everything clearer, so to speak.
As for the transmission, I will wait a few more miles before cursing the bike again. One of those add-on gear indicators would do me a lot of good, too, I suppose. I often find I am in a higher gear when stopping than I thought. By the time I figure it out, I'm stopped and annoyed again. Counting from one to five isn't so hard... it's the counting from five to one that is the tricky part
Now, I gotta go review me some oil threads

Avoiding that just comes from years of habit. When I am coming to a stop, I downshift a gear, release the clutch, and let engine compression do some of the work of slowing the bike. Do this for each lower gear, one by one, and by the time you reach the stop, you are in first. Normal stops are a combination of front brake and rear wheel engine compression (no rear brake).

Panic stops, my left foot is as well trained as my right foot and hands. Muscle memory instinctively goes for the brakes, clutch, AND shifter. At the end of that panic stop may very well be the need to make an aggressive move to get out of the way, and you darn well better be in the right gear to do so! Leaving transmission duties to an after stop afterthought is not good practice.

 

[Inhouse Bob]

Thanks all.
I will review my manual for the sight-glass cleaning procedure, which I was unaware of. What will they come up with next?
I'm at 594 miles, so I suppose it is almost time for the 600 mile oil change :clap: That might well make everything clearer, so to speak.
As for the transmission, I will wait a few more miles before cursing the bike again. One of those add-on gear indicators would do me a lot of good, too, I suppose. I often find I am in a higher gear when stopping than I thought. By the time I figure it out, I'm stopped and annoyed again. Counting from one to five isn't so hard... it's the counting from five to one that is the tricky part
Now, I gotta go review me some oil threads

Avoiding that just comes from years of habit. When I am coming to a stop, I downshift a gear, release the clutch, and let engine compression do some of the work of slowing the bike. Do this for each lower gear, one by one, and by the time you reach the stop, you are in first. Normal stops are a combination of front brake and rear wheel engine compression (no rear brake).

Panic stops, my left foot is as well trained as my right foot and hands. Muscle memory instinctively goes for the brakes, clutch, AND shifter. At the end of that panic stop may very well be the need to make an aggressive move to get out of the way, and you darn well better be in the right gear to do so! Leaving transmission duties to an after stop afterthought is not good practice.

Yup, I do work through the gears on slowing, whether a fast stop or easy, but sometimes I just don't get all the way there. Practice makes perfect!

So you have a 13 5 speed? This may help

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=202

Thanks Ferret. I spent the last hour working through that most excellent thread. With this bike, as with most others, it generally comes down to, "Just trust the manual and ride."

 

[flynrider]

Thanks all.
I will review my manual for the sight-glass cleaning procedure, which I was unaware of. What will they come up with next?
I'm at 594 miles, so I suppose it is almost time for the 600 mile oil change :clap: That might well make everything clearer, so to speak.
As for the transmission, I will wait a few more miles before cursing the bike again. One of those add-on gear indicators would do me a lot of good, too, I suppose. I often find I am in a higher gear when stopping than I thought. By the time I figure it out, I'm stopped and annoyed again. Counting from one to five isn't so hard... it's the counting from five to one that is the tricky part
Now, I gotta go review me some oil threads

Your not crazy, Bob. As posted above, the nature of unsynced bike transmissions is that they need to be moving to make the downshift. That being said, I have noticed that my CB11 is a bit worse than any of my previous bikes in this respect. For example, my CB750 has no trouble downshifting from the upper gears if it's still moving between 5 - 10 mph. The CB11 doesn't like downshifting below 10 mph so much. It's a quirk, but once you get used to it, you'll just plan your downshifts a further ahead of time.

 

[Inhouse Bob]

Thanks all.
I will review my manual for the sight-glass cleaning procedure, which I was unaware of. What will they come up with next?
I'm at 594 miles, so I suppose it is almost time for the 600 mile oil change :clap: That might well make everything clearer, so to speak.
As for the transmission, I will wait a few more miles before cursing the bike again. One of those add-on gear indicators would do me a lot of good, too, I suppose. I often find I am in a higher gear when stopping than I thought. By the time I figure it out, I'm stopped and annoyed again. Counting from one to five isn't so hard... it's the counting from five to one that is the tricky part
Now, I gotta go review me some oil threads

Your not crazy, Bob. As posted above, the nature of unsynced bike transmissions is that they need to be moving to make the downshift. That being said, I have noticed that my CB11 is a bit worse than any of my previous bikes in this respect. For example, my CB750 has no trouble downshifting from the upper gears if it's still moving between 5 - 10 mph. The CB11 doesn't like downshifting below 10 mph so much. It's a quirk, but once you get used to it, you'll just plan your downshifts a further ahead of time.

Your not crazy, Bob. As posted above, the nature of unsynced bike transmissions is that they need to be moving to make the downshift. That being said, I have noticed that my CB11 is a bit worse than any of my previous bikes in this respect. For example, my CB750 has no trouble downshifting from the upper gears if it's still moving between 5 - 10 mph. The CB11 doesn't like downshifting below 10 mph so much. It's a quirk, but once you get used to it, you'll just plan your downshifts a further ahead of time.
[/quote
Thanks Fly n rider. I will just need to be more assertive in my shifting. No more mamby-pamby footwork for me

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

1) If I'm at a full stop and am still in second or third gear, it is generally impossible to downshift without some clutch work and it's annoying. I don't often get into that situation, but a quick stop can find me there. Am I doing something wrong? Everyone talks about the buttery transmission, but I'm not really feeling it. Often when I am slowing, it'll get stuck in third or second while still in motion, and then I'm fishing around for a gear and tweeking the clutch and trying not to hit the guy in front of me and that ain't right.
This is a '13 with the five speed.
2) I can't see a thing in the oil window. Maybe I need new glasses, but it is so small and it is too dark to tell whether there is oil in there or not. Even leaning it way over either way reveals nothing. Must be some oil, as it hasn't eaten itself yet. I tried a flashlight, but still can't be sure of anything. Suggestions?

Thanks for listening. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Bob, run the engine until the oil is hot. Shut it down. Put the bike up on the centre stand on a level surface. Make sure the sight glass is clean by cleaning the outside of the glass and then rotating, with a flat screwdriver, the interior glass cleaning device. Using a torch (flashlight?), check the oil level while the bike is on the centre stand and the engine has been shut down for a minimum of two minutes (I think the Owners Manual gives advice on this). Ideally you should see oil, dark or light brown, up to a level between the full and refill lines. Above this you should be able to see a metallic (silver) background. Just as a check, if you can't see see the metallic background then put the bike on the side stand. This should allow the oil to drain to the left side of the sump (?). If you still can't see the metallic bit the bike may have been grossly overfilled. If you can see the metallic bit while the bike is on the side stand the oil has been overfilled, but not grossly. In either case drain some oil off. If, while the bike is on centre stand, all you can see is the metallic background then the oil needs topping up. The metallic background is very easy to see and the oil level is quite apparent if the glass is clean so you should not be in doubt as to the oil level.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Bob, run the engine until the oil is hot. Shut it down. Put the bike up on the centre stand on a level surface. Make sure the sight glass is clean by cleaning the outside of the glass and then rotating, with a flat screwdriver, the interior glass cleaning device. Using a torch (flashlight?), check the oil level while the bike is on the centre stand and the engine has been shut down for a minimum of two minutes (I think the Owners Manual gives advice on this). Ideally you should see oil, dark or light brown, up to a level between the full and refill lines. Above this you should be able to see a metallic (silver) background. Just as a check, if you can't see see the metallic background then put the bike on the side stand. This should allow the oil to drain to the left side of the sump (?). If you still can't see the metallic bit the bike may have been grossly overfilled. If you can see the metallic bit while the bike is on the side stand the oil has been overfilled, but not grossly. In either case drain some oil off. If, while the bike is on centre stand, all you can see is the metallic background then the oil needs topping up. The metallic background is very easy to see and the oil level is quite apparent if the glass is clean so you should not be in doubt as to the oil level.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
In addition to the above - the internal cleaning device is a single blade wiper. Turning the wiper to the down (6 o'clock position) assists in determining the oil level.

You should see something like this:

Or maybe this:

Mmmmmm. Help me Tink!

Cheers

 

[JustPassinThru_imp]

Thanks all.
I will review my manual for the sight-glass cleaning procedure, which I was unaware of. What will they come up with next?
I'm at 594 miles, so I suppose it is almost time for the 600 mile oil change :clap: That might well make everything clearer, so to speak.
As for the transmission, I will wait a few more miles before cursing the bike again. One of those add-on gear indicators would do me a lot of good, too, I suppose. I often find I am in a higher gear when stopping than I thought. By the time I figure it out, I'm stopped and annoyed again. Counting from one to five isn't so hard... it's the counting from five to one that is the tricky part
Now, I gotta go review me some oil threads

I had much the same troubles and sometimes still do.

First, as noted, you have to be rolling for the shift to happen. Not unlike dry-shifting a car or, more obviously, a truck with a crude long-throw shift. If nothing is moving in the gearbox, you will have trouble if the engaging keys don't line up.

Since you cannot double-clutch with a bike transmission, you have to feed it motion by rolling.

Now. Downshifting on this transmission...if you're going overly slow, like walking speed, and you try to bang-bang-bang your way down into first...you will have problems. If you even try to fast-shift down at about 25 mph, you will have odd behaviors.

What I've found: Go down one gear, generally the first drop goes smooth, and let the clutch out for a second. Then in again and go two more. Out again, then two more...don't hit 1st until you're at walking speed. And don't expect to find N unless you first go into 1st. Sometimes you will. Not always; and if you try for N at too fast a ground speed, you can invertantly downshift with a THUNK that you just KNOW is no good.

It can be a nuisance; but it's one of few on this design. Also...make SURE your foot is all the way off the shift lever. When I changed from shoes to boots, suddenly I was having some odd shifting issues. It was my big heavy boot.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Thanks all.
I will review my manual for the sight-glass cleaning procedure, which I was unaware of. What will they come up with next?
I'm at 594 miles, so I suppose it is almost time for the 600 mile oil change :clap: That might well make everything clearer, so to speak.
As for the transmission, I will wait a few more miles before cursing the bike again. One of those add-on gear indicators would do me a lot of good, too, I suppose. I often find I am in a higher gear when stopping than I thought. By the time I figure it out, I'm stopped and annoyed again. Counting from one to five isn't so hard... it's the counting from five to one that is the tricky part
Now, I gotta go review me some oil threads

Avoiding that just comes from years of habit. When I am coming to a stop, I downshift a gear, release the clutch, and let engine compression do some of the work of slowing the bike. Do this for each lower gear, one by one, and by the time you reach the stop, you are in first. Normal stops are a combination of front brake and rear wheel engine compression (no rear brake).

Panic stops, my left foot is as well trained as my right foot and hands. Muscle memory instinctively goes for the brakes, clutch, AND shifter. At the end of that panic stop may very well be the need to make an aggressive move to get out of the way, and you darn well better be in the right gear to do so! Leaving transmission duties to an after stop afterthought is not good practice.

(+1) Will add that it is usual for myself to down shift as far as needed and land in neutral at a definitive normal safe stop.