How dealers lose the sale

[LongRanger_imp]

Ferret, you took my words. Great review VLJ. I too am getting tired of seeing bikes with ultra-wide gas tanks (think R1200RT). Haven't seen the Z900 series yet.

 

[the Ferret]

Think Triumph Rocket 3 roadster lol

 

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, I didn't get to ride the Z900RS, so I can't offer a ride report or any sort of hands-on functional comparo to my XSR. I was only able to sit on it and hear it run while blipping the throttle.

What I can now tell for certain, however, is that my XSR is a whole lot lighter, narrower, shorter (wheelbase and seat height), and, with my Dimotiv bar risers, more comfortable. Having read about twenty ride reviews of the Z900RS, I am 100% certain that my bike will out-handle and out-brake it, while accelerating a whole lot harder. I'm also certain that my bike has greater ground clearance and is much more flickable. I'll bet that the Z900RS has a plusher ride, though. Lastly, my bike doesn't have any of the jerky-throttle fueling issues of the Z900RS.

Now, keep in mind, this isn't really a fair, apples-to-apples fight here. My bike has braided steel lines and HH pads, so I have an advantage there in initial bite and overall sharpness. I have a full Akropovic carbon exhaust with a matching reflashed ECU and AIS block-offs, so not only is my fueling that much better again, but the bike also dropped a good ten lbs while adding ten rwhp, a couple ft-lbs of torque, and a whole buttload of midrange punch. At this point, my XSR produces the same rwhp as a Z900, so roughly a dozen more than a Z900RS, while weighing fifty lbs less. My suspension has also been set up properly for my weight and riding style, and XSR900 suspension is not the same as FZ/MT-09 suspension. The XSR's shock is significantly firmer than the MT's, both in terms of spring rate and damping.

So, no, it's not really a fair fight, comparing the performance of my XSR to the new Z900RS. Even bone stock, though, I'm certain my XSR was still much sportier, albeit a bit less comfortable.

 

[Guth_imp]

Hey VLJ, I'll add my thanks as well for the insights you've shared regarding the Z900RS.

 

[Cormanus]

Hey VLJ, I'll add my thanks as well for the insights you've shared regarding the Z900RS.

+1. Thanks VLJ.

 

[Beerman_imp]

Reading over this thread, I feel fortunate that I did not have to deal with the most of the issues being discussed. I did not hesitate to pay full price for my CB1100. There were no test rides involved, nor did I ask for one as I had ordered my CB before they had even arrived here in North America. As soon as I saw the photos of the bike that a Honda rep was "test riding" in California (long before Honda officially announced that they were going to release the CB1100 here) I just knew that it was what I wanted. I was never looking for anything more than what Honda had intended — a basic, but high quality retro standard that was was built with great attention to detail much in the tradition of a number of their classic CBs of the past.

That probably made things much easier (simpler) for me. I've never once worried about the price that I paid, nor have I wanted to trade my CB in on a newer model or for some other ride. I'm glad that I bought when I did as no version released since the original has held as much appeal for me. I can admire newer bikes that are being offered by other manufacturers, but none of these offerings have caused me to like my CB any less. While my CB1100 hasn't been perfect, I can still say that it's been great. I'm grateful that I still feel this way about "my bike". Preparing my CB for sitting idle this winter has made me realize that I myself am ready to come out of my "riding hibernation". I'm once again looking forward to jumping back on my bike when the right opportunity next presents itself.

With that in mind, I really feel for those of you that would like to purchase a CB1100 under your own terms and can't even find a dealer to at least work with you to some degree. I wish it weren't this way. It's a bummer to hear that this is how it is for so many who might otherwise also find enjoyment in the CB1100.

There's a philosophy in here that I rather admire - probably applies to more than just bikes.

Beerman

Well, it's certainly held true with me and vehicles. I've tended to focus on those vehicles that
A.)I really liked the looks of, and
B.)Truly sounded like they would fit my needs based on how I planned to use them

As a result, I've been pretty happy with most of my vehicles. I try to take good care of them and do as much work on them myself as I can. For these reasons, even though they are just objects, I do typically end up forming a bond of sorts with my vehicles and hang on to them for a fairly lengthy period of time. I'm coming up on the sixth year of ownership of my 2001 Toyota Tundra — I plan to drive it for many more years to come. I hung on to both vehicles that I owned before the Tundra for at least a decade each. I ultimately ended up selling my 1989 Toyota Pickup to my brother and my 1999 Audi A4 has been passed along to my son. I have very little doubt that the 2005 Honda S2000 purchased earlier this year will be sticking around for a very long time as I've become quite enamored with it.

I don't have as many motorcycle ownership stories since I stopped riding them right after high school. When I returned to motorcycling almost 30 years later, I purchased the only bike that had actually lured me back into a motorcycle dealer during my dry spell — a 1988 Honda Hawk GT. Now after more than a decade of ownership, I really should be selling it (I really planned to do so last fall) as I have accumulated too many vehicles at this time. I'm hoping that the Hawk ends up with someone else who will appreciate it for what it is just as I have. There are a few reasons why I did not end up selling it this year, certainly one reason being that I've grown quite fond of it, and I'll be sad to see it go. (And yes, I realize that it's only a "thing", lol.)

I've long been a fan of Honda products in particular for a variety of reasons. I've owned a good number of them over the years. Honda is very good at engineering and manufacturing products that have generally proven to be highly reliable. It is those projects that are obviously special to Honda (that typically end up being a few steps removed from their mainstream offerings) that I find so appealing. When this company decides to pay tribute to it's heritage, the results are generally very intriguing to me.

As with Honda S2000, the story behind the CB1100 really sucked me in. I was very impressed with Honda's willingness to create a new air-cooled engine, their first in over 20 years, just for this motorcycle. I don't think Honda was ever that concerned about how many CB1100s they would sell. While they obviously produced the CB1100 to be sold to the public, I believe that Honda was most concerned with Honda themselves (as opposed to the general public) when it came to developing this motorcycle. Over time, the CB1100 has evolved to reflect what more of what the public, or those outside of Honda, wanted in a retro machine (again, the CB1100 is very similar to the S2000 in this regard). While I think that the bike that Honda originally released in 2010 was a better reflection of what they themselves wanted to do, whether you're looking at a CB1100 from 2010 or from 2017, I think that you're looking at something that is pretty special. It was the same with the S2000 — I would say that the first generation of that machine was the truest to Honda's vision of what the car should be and it morphed over time to suit the general public. Every model year has it's own fans, but most all would agree that any S2000 is special.

I suppose Honda can get away with projects like these given their sheer size. I'll probably always view (and value) the CB1100 differently because of this take on things. I already viewed it as a special bike before I even got my hands on one, and owning one hasn't changed this opinion.

While I've been lucky with vehicles in this regard, there was a period of time where I went through guitars and stereo equipment like nobody's business. Cheaper than swapping motorcycles in and out all the time, but probably not by all that much as it turns out. Ironically, I have found that the less time I spend on the web reading about everything from bikes to cars to stereos and guitars, the happier I am with what it is I already own.

Ironically, I have found that the less time I spend on the web reading about everything from bikes to cars to stereos and guitars, the happier I am with what it is I already own.
Now isn't that just right!

 

[the Ferret]

mickey, I didn't get to ride the Z900RS, so I can't offer a ride report or any sort of hands-on functional comparo to my XSR. I was only able to sit on it and hear it run while blipping the throttle.

What I can now tell for certain, however, is that my XSR is a whole lot lighter, narrower, shorter (wheelbase and seat height), and, with my Dimotiv bar risers, more comfortable. Having read about twenty ride reviews of the Z900RS, I am 100% certain that my bike will out-handle and out-brake it, while accelerating a whole lot harder. I'm also certain that my bike has greater ground clearance and is much more flickable. I'll bet that the Z900RS has a plusher ride, though. Lastly, my bike doesn't have any of the jerky-throttle fueling issues of the Z900RS.

Now, keep in mind, this isn't really a fair, apples-to-apples fight here. My bike has braided steel lines and HH pads, so I have an advantage there in initial bite and overall sharpness. I have a full Akropovic carbon exhaust with a matching reflashed ECU and AIS block-offs, so not only is my fueling that much better again, but the bike also dropped a good ten lbs while adding ten rwhp, a couple ft-lbs of torque, and a whole buttload of midrange punch. At this point, my XSR produces the same rwhp as a Z900, so roughly a dozen more than a Z900RS, while weighing fifty lbs less. My suspension has also been set up properly for my weight and riding style, and XSR900 suspension is not the same as FZ/MT-09 suspension. The XSR's shock is significantly firmer than the MT's, both in terms of spring rate and damping.

So, no, it's not really a fair fight, comparing the performance of my XSR to the new Z900RS. Even bone stock, though, I'm certain my XSR was still much sportier, albeit a bit less comfortable.

I know you have been looking for a sporty more comfortable replacement for your XSR, so I'm taking it that the Kaw is scratched off the list?

 

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, the Z900RS was never really on my list. In the Kawi lineup, I'm more interested in the Ninja 1000 and Z900, and perhaps even the Z650, with different reasons for each.

I've always been interested in the Ninja 1000 for its hard bags, wind protection, relatively light weight, and major power. My worries with that bike center around the potential buzziness of the motor, which many people don't like, and the possibility of noisy turbulence coming off that windscreen. In my experience, any bike with an upright seating position and a windshield that you see over rather than look through has problems with noisy turbulence. I grew so fed up with this phenomenon on my ST1300 and V-Strom 1000, and also on the FJ-09 and Ducati Multistrada, that I swore off ever going that route again. Even with the XSR I've found that any windshield of a decent size creates noisy turbulence.

In the end, I always go with no windshield, or, in the case of the XSR, a shield that is so small that it only covers the instruments. I let the Kawi sales guy know that I wouldn't buy his Ninja 1000 until it passed a freeway test ride.

The Z900? It's about the motor, the fueling, the seating position, and the increased wind protection afforded by the shape of the tank and that unique seating position. This bike does nothing my XSR doesn't do, so it could only serve as a direct replacement, not an addition.

The little Z650 just fits me so well, and it's very affordable. Dirck's praise for it over at MC Daily has me interested in it. I love tiny, sporty yet comfortable bikes, especially when they have two-cylinder motors. Loved my old SV650, so I'm keeping an open mind about the Z650, and also the 2018 Yamaha MT-07.

I'm leaning against the upcoming Yamaha Tracer 900GT, mainly due to the windshield issue, as well as the cost. I have a hard time believing they've solved the turbulence issue by making the windshield slightly larger. If anything, it needed to be smaller.

The CB1100 EX has taken over from the T120, so that's my pick in a retro.

Lastly, there's the upcoming CB1000, which I really like. I suspect it will cost too much, however, and I'm nearly certain that the seating position is too aggressive for my reconstructed neck. Also, like the Z900, there appears to be nowhere to attach soft luggage.

I wouldn't add a Z900RS, nor would I replace my XSR900 with one. Too similar, and I prefer the Z900 in that instance anyway. I think it probably comes down to the CB1100 (the long-term choice: comfortable, and I simply love it) vs the Ninja 1000 (better touring bike that's still sporty), with the CB1000 having a shot if the price is roughly the same as the CB1100, which I highly doubt will be the case. Also, again, there's the issue with its seating position.

It's probably the CB1100, with the Ninja 1000 needing to pass the engine buzz/noisy turbulence tests before it could become a serious option. The CB1100 doesn't really worry me in any regard. I know I'll adjust to the slower motor and less sporty handling. Otherwise, its positives far outweigh its negatives for me.

 

[LongRanger_imp]

VLJ, I've gone down the same windscreen rabbit hole on too many bikes, just as you have. I couldn't agree with your conclusion more.

 

[VLJ_imp]

LongRanger, the windshield issue is one of the primary reasons I've been so attracted to the CB1100. Amazing looks, impeccable build quality, honest engineering, fantastic comfort, and smooth, quiet airflow!

I know the CB1100 will be the ultimate turnkey bike. Other than the factory heated grips, there is literally not a single thing I would add to the bike, or delete from it. No pipe swaps, or brake lines or pads. No seat swaps. No windshields. I would leave it 100% bone stock, and probably love it even more two years down the road than on the day I first rode it home.

That is an extremely appealing concept to me. I need some of that in my life.

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Yep. My DLX is 100% stock except for the SuperBrace that the original owner installed (along with a number of other doo-dads that found their way to the dumpster). My CB is the quietest bike I own. No wind noise, no turbulence, no buffeting, just a nice calm woosh. You'll love it.

 

[Capo]

mickey, the Z900RS was never really on my list. In the Kawi lineup, I'm more interested in the Ninja 1000 and Z900, and perhaps even the Z650, with different reasons for each.

I've always been interested in the Ninja 1000 for its hard bags, wind protection, relatively light weight, and major power. My worries with that bike center around the potential buzziness of the motor, which many people don't like, and the possibility of noisy turbulence coming off that windscreen. In my experience, any bike with an upright seating position and a windshield that you see over rather than look through has problems with noisy turbulence. I grew so fed up with this phenomenon on my ST1300 and V-Strom 1000, and also on the FJ-09 and Ducati Multistrada, that I swore off ever going that route again. Even with the XSR I've found that any windshield of a decent size creates noisy turbulence.

In the end, I always go with no windshield, or, in the case of the XSR, a shield that is so small that it only covers the instruments. I let the Kawi sales guy know that I wouldn't buy his Ninja 1000 until it passed a freeway test ride.

The Z900? It's about the motor, the fueling, the seating position, and the increased wind protection afforded by the shape of the tank and that unique seating position. This bike does nothing my XSR doesn't do, so it could only serve as a direct replacement, not an addition.

The little Z650 just fits me so well, and it's very affordable. Dirck's praise for it over at MC Daily has me interested in it. I love tiny, sporty yet comfortable bikes, especially when they have two-cylinder motors. Loved my old SV650, so I'm keeping an open mind about the Z650, and also the 2018 Yamaha MT-07.

I'm leaning against the upcoming Yamaha Tracer 900GT, mainly due to the windshield issue, as well as the cost. I have a hard time believing they've solved the turbulence issue by making the windshield slightly larger. If anything, it needed to be smaller.

The CB1100 EX has taken over from the T120, so that's my pick in a retro.

Lastly, there's the upcoming CB1000, which I really like. I suspect it will cost too much, however, and I'm nearly certain that the seating position is too aggressive for my reconstructed neck. Also, like the Z900, there appears to be nowhere to attach soft luggage.

I wouldn't add a Z900RS, nor would I replace my XSR900 with one. Too similar, and I prefer the Z900 in that instance anyway. I think it probably comes down to the CB1100 (the long-term choice: comfortable, and I simply love it) vs the Ninja 1000 (better touring bike that's still sporty), with the CB1000 having a shot if the price is roughly the same as the CB1100, which I highly doubt will be the case. Also, again, there's the issue with its seating position.

It's probably the CB1100, with the Ninja 1000 needing to pass the engine buzz/noisy turbulence tests before it could become a serious option. The CB1100 doesn't really worry me in any regard. I know I'll adjust to the slower motor and less sporty handling. Otherwise, its positives far outweigh its negatives for me.

The Z1000 is the only recent bike I’ve ridden extensively that feels buzz-ier to me than the CB. Irritatingly so. I rented one on the Isle of Man a few years back, and while it was a fine overall machine, my particular sensitivity to I-4 vibes made it unpleasant. Interestingly, I rode a friend’s new Z900 and it was markedly less buzzy. That is a fun bike, really liked it. I’m intrigued by the Z900RS.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Guth_imp]

Capo, I don't know if you're contemplating such a thing, but if you get a chance to ride the Z900RS, I'd be really interested to read your impressions of how that bike compares to your Thruxton R

 

[VLJ_imp]

Yep. My DLX is 100% stock except for the SuperBrace that the original owner installed (along with a number of other doo-dads that found their way to the dumpster). My CB is the quietest bike I own. No wind noise, no turbulence, no buffeting, just a nice calm woosh. You'll love it.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "SuperBrace"?

 

[LongRanger_imp]

It's an aftermarket fork brace. Nicely polished and fits the bike well, though I have no idea as to its effectiveness.

 

[VLJ_imp]

mickey, the Z900RS was never really on my list. In the Kawi lineup, I'm more interested in the Ninja 1000 and Z900, and perhaps even the Z650, with different reasons for each.

I've always been interested in the Ninja 1000 for its hard bags, wind protection, relatively light weight, and major power. My worries with that bike center around the potential buzziness of the motor, which many people don't like, and the possibility of noisy turbulence coming off that windscreen. In my experience, any bike with an upright seating position and a windshield that you see over rather than look through has problems with noisy turbulence. I grew so fed up with this phenomenon on my ST1300 and V-Strom 1000, and also on the FJ-09 and Ducati Multistrada, that I swore off ever going that route again. Even with the XSR I've found that any windshield of a decent size creates noisy turbulence.

In the end, I always go with no windshield, or, in the case of the XSR, a shield that is so small that it only covers the instruments. I let the Kawi sales guy know that I wouldn't buy his Ninja 1000 until it passed a freeway test ride.

The Z900? It's about the motor, the fueling, the seating position, and the increased wind protection afforded by the shape of the tank and that unique seating position. This bike does nothing my XSR doesn't do, so it could only serve as a direct replacement, not an addition.

The little Z650 just fits me so well, and it's very affordable. Dirck's praise for it over at MC Daily has me interested in it. I love tiny, sporty yet comfortable bikes, especially when they have two-cylinder motors. Loved my old SV650, so I'm keeping an open mind about the Z650, and also the 2018 Yamaha MT-07.

I'm leaning against the upcoming Yamaha Tracer 900GT, mainly due to the windshield issue, as well as the cost. I have a hard time believing they've solved the turbulence issue by making the windshield slightly larger. If anything, it needed to be smaller.

The CB1100 EX has taken over from the T120, so that's my pick in a retro.

Lastly, there's the upcoming CB1000, which I really like. I suspect it will cost too much, however, and I'm nearly certain that the seating position is too aggressive for my reconstructed neck. Also, like the Z900, there appears to be nowhere to attach soft luggage.

I wouldn't add a Z900RS, nor would I replace my XSR900 with one. Too similar, and I prefer the Z900 in that instance anyway. I think it probably comes down to the CB1100 (the long-term choice: comfortable, and I simply love it) vs the Ninja 1000 (better touring bike that's still sporty), with the CB1000 having a shot if the price is roughly the same as the CB1100, which I highly doubt will be the case. Also, again, there's the issue with its seating position.

It's probably the CB1100, with the Ninja 1000 needing to pass the engine buzz/noisy turbulence tests before it could become a serious option. The CB1100 doesn't really worry me in any regard. I know I'll adjust to the slower motor and less sporty handling. Otherwise, its positives far outweigh its negatives for me.

The Z1000 is the only recent bike I’ve ridden extensively that feels buzz-ier to me than the CB. Irritatingly so. I rented one on the Isle of Man a few years back, and while it was a fine overall machine, my particular sensitivity to I-4 vibes made it unpleasant. Interestingly, I rode a friend’s new Z900 and it was markedly less buzzy. That is a fun bike, really liked it. I’m intrigued by the Z900RS.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless you let me sell it immediately afterward, you couldn't give me a Z1000. Never mind the buzzing, I simply can't stomach the looks of the thing.

The Z900 isn't exactly CB1100 gorgeous either, but I can at least accept it. I can't deal with the Squinty Lizard In Heat look of the Z1000.

As for the Z900RS, if I'm going to give up performance to get a comfortable ride and retro look, I'm sorry, but I'm going all the way and grabbing the gold standard retro, the CB1100 EX. If I'm sticking with the performance thing, I'll go with the higher performance, better fueling, and $2,400 lower price tag of the Z900.

Regarding the buzziness of the CB1100, which model have you ridden? I can believe that the original 5-speed version might be a bit buzzy for some folks, but nearly everyone who has ridden the 2017 model says it's insanely smooth, unless you take it above 6,000 rpm, which, apparently, is rarely necessary. Most people offer a similar description of the 6-speed 2014 model.

 

[Beerman_imp]

Capo, I don't know if you're contemplating such a thing, but if you get a chance to ride the Z900RS, I'd be really interested to read your impressions of how that bike compares to your Thruxton R

Guth - a gentle reminder, If I may:

'I have found that the less time I spend on the web reading about everything from bikes to cars to stereos and guitars, the happier I am with what it is I already own''

Beerman

 

[Capo]

mickey, the Z900RS was never really on my list. In the Kawi lineup, I'm more interested in the Ninja 1000 and Z900, and perhaps even the Z650, with different reasons for each.

I've always been interested in the Ninja 1000 for its hard bags, wind protection, relatively light weight, and major power. My worries with that bike center around the potential buzziness of the motor, which many people don't like, and the possibility of noisy turbulence coming off that windscreen. In my experience, any bike with an upright seating position and a windshield that you see over rather than look through has problems with noisy turbulence. I grew so fed up with this phenomenon on my ST1300 and V-Strom 1000, and also on the FJ-09 and Ducati Multistrada, that I swore off ever going that route again. Even with the XSR I've found that any windshield of a decent size creates noisy turbulence.

In the end, I always go with no windshield, or, in the case of the XSR, a shield that is so small that it only covers the instruments. I let the Kawi sales guy know that I wouldn't buy his Ninja 1000 until it passed a freeway test ride.

The Z900? It's about the motor, the fueling, the seating position, and the increased wind protection afforded by the shape of the tank and that unique seating position. This bike does nothing my XSR doesn't do, so it could only serve as a direct replacement, not an addition.

The little Z650 just fits me so well, and it's very affordable. Dirck's praise for it over at MC Daily has me interested in it. I love tiny, sporty yet comfortable bikes, especially when they have two-cylinder motors. Loved my old SV650, so I'm keeping an open mind about the Z650, and also the 2018 Yamaha MT-07.

I'm leaning against the upcoming Yamaha Tracer 900GT, mainly due to the windshield issue, as well as the cost. I have a hard time believing they've solved the turbulence issue by making the windshield slightly larger. If anything, it needed to be smaller.

The CB1100 EX has taken over from the T120, so that's my pick in a retro.

Lastly, there's the upcoming CB1000, which I really like. I suspect it will cost too much, however, and I'm nearly certain that the seating position is too aggressive for my reconstructed neck. Also, like the Z900, there appears to be nowhere to attach soft luggage.

I wouldn't add a Z900RS, nor would I replace my XSR900 with one. Too similar, and I prefer the Z900 in that instance anyway. I think it probably comes down to the CB1100 (the long-term choice: comfortable, and I simply love it) vs the Ninja 1000 (better touring bike that's still sporty), with the CB1000 having a shot if the price is roughly the same as the CB1100, which I highly doubt will be the case. Also, again, there's the issue with its seating position.

It's probably the CB1100, with the Ninja 1000 needing to pass the engine buzz/noisy turbulence tests before it could become a serious option. The CB1100 doesn't really worry me in any regard. I know I'll adjust to the slower motor and less sporty handling. Otherwise, its positives far outweigh its negatives for me.

The Z1000 is the only recent bike I’ve ridden extensively that feels buzz-ier to me than the CB. Irritatingly so. I rented one on the Isle of Man a few years back, and while it was a fine overall machine, my particular sensitivity to I-4 vibes made it unpleasant. Interestingly, I rode a friend’s new Z900 and it was markedly less buzzy. That is a fun bike, really liked it. I’m intrigued by the Z900RS.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless you let me sell it immediately afterward, you couldn't give me a Z1000. Never mind the buzzing, I simply can't stomach the looks of the thing.

The Z900 isn't exactly CB1100 gorgeous either, but I can at least accept it. I can't deal with the Squinty Lizard In Heat look of the Z1000.

As for the Z900RS, if I'm going to give up performance to get a comfortable ride and retro look, I'm sorry, but I'm going all the way and grabbing the gold standard retro, the CB1100 EX. If I'm sticking with the performance thing, I'll go with the higher performance, better fueling, and $2,400 lower price tag of the Z900.

Regarding the buzziness of the CB1100, which model have you ridden? I can believe that the original 5-speed version might be a bit buzzy for some folks, but nearly everyone who has ridden the 2017 model says it's insanely smooth, unless you take it above 6,000 rpm, which, apparently, is rarely necessary. Most people offer a similar description of the 6-speed 2014 model.

Unless you let me sell it immediately afterward, you couldn't give me a Z1000. Never mind the buzzing, I simply can't stomach the looks of the thing.

The Z900 isn't exactly CB1100 gorgeous either, but I can at least accept it. I can't deal with the Squinty Lizard In Heat look of the Z1000.

As for the Z900RS, if I'm going to give up performance to get a comfortable ride and retro look, I'm sorry, but I'm going all the way and grabbing the gold standard retro, the CB1100 EX. If I'm sticking with the performance thing, I'll go with the higher performance, better fueling, and $2,400 lower price tag of the Z900.

Regarding the buzziness of the CB1100, which model have you ridden? I can believe that the original 5-speed version might be a bit buzzy for some folks, but nearly everyone who has ridden the 2017 model says it's insanely smooth, unless you take it above 6,000 rpm, which, apparently, is rarely necessary. Most people offer a similar description of the 6-speed 2014 model.

I own a 2013. The buzz is typical and prominent in the 3-4000 range and like a dog whistle, is apparently absent for some, and painfully obvious for others. I fall in the latter group, and am just one of those riders that are susceptible to the high frequency tingles. I can ride a thumping V or Parallel twin or triple all day and not feel a thing. Like a former girlfriend once said to me, ‘it’s not you, it’s me.’


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Capo, I don't know if you're contemplating such a thing, but if you get a chance to ride the Z900RS, I'd be really interested to read your impressions of how that bike compares to your Thruxton R

I’m always contemplating! I’ll catch a test ride of the RS in spring, no rush, it’s only 3rd or 4th on the list of next bikes for me. I visited it in depth at the dealer, and really like it, but objectively provides nothing versus the CB. I’m an old Kawasaki kid, so the appeal is certainly there on that front, as the poster of a Z1 was in my wall when I was 14 and my first road bike was a 500 Triple.


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[Guth_imp]

Capo, I don't know if you're contemplating such a thing, but if you get a chance to ride the Z900RS, I'd be really interested to read your impressions of how that bike compares to your Thruxton R

Guth - a gentle reminder, If I may:

'I have found that the less time I spend on the web reading about everything from bikes to cars to stereos and guitars, the happier I am with what it is I already own''

Beerman

Which is exactly why I started that line with "Ironically," No one said running a motorcycle forum would be easy. But hey, there has to be some of us around to help others spend their money. :biker:

 

[emullick_imp]

Hey, VLJ. I was wondering about you the other day. What happened. I take it you are not the owner of a CB1100?

Nope, still not a CB1100 owner. A few months ago I made my local dealer an offer on their 2017 EX, and we ended up $800 apart. I've been checking back in every so often to see if the bike is still there. As of a week ago, it's still there. Same vin number.

"So when are you going to actually buy the thing? It obviously has your name on it. You keep coming to visit it, so when are you going to take it home?"

"Hey, I made you an offer."

"Yes, you did."

"Three months later, this thing is still sitting here, and now we're heading into winter. Your sales guy says he has my phone number."

"Yep, we have your info stored in our system."

That's where we're at.

The thing is, other players are starting to enter the picture: the new Yamaha Tracer 900 GT, the new CB1000R, and maybe even a couple of much cheaper options like the new Z900, the new Z650, and the updated-for-2018 MT-07.

I've tried to like the new Z900RS, and while I like it more now than I did when I first saw it, I still don't like it all that much. I'm just not that impressed with its design, and I don't like what I'm hearing about the snatchy throttle response. Considering the enormous price difference, I actually prefer the basic Z900, with its stronger motor and smoother fueling.

In terms of the T120 vs CB1100 debate, I've just about eliminated the T120. I can get good heated grips for the Honda, and I've never had electronic cruise-control on a bike, so I won't miss it. My legs are short enough that the CB's reduced legroom isn't much of an issue. I still love the sound and feel of the Triumph's motor, but I'm fairly convinced now that I would also like the sound and feel of the '17 EX's motor, which sounds different from the '14, plus it's a few ponies stronger. Otherwise, I finally came to the conclusion that I just desire the CB1100 more than I desire the T120. Whereas with the T120 I fear that the bloom would soon fall from the rose once the novelty wore off, the CB1100 feels like more of a long-term affair to me.

I did a 400-mile "race" ride a few days ago on my XSR900. I'd picked up a nail in my rear Q3, which sucks, because that tire only had about two thousand miles on it. So, after replacing it with a new Q3 Plus, I wanted to scrub it in and get rid of the chicken strips.

Thus, the "race" ride. I did the Lake Berryessa/Skaggs Springs route, which is almost completely devoid of traffic this time of year. I had these roads all to my lonesome, so I really went hard. In fact, I pushed harder than I ever had on the XSR900, wanting to test its (our) limits.

Also, I wanted to test the suspension again, since it becomes a bit harsh when pushed really hard over bad stutter bumps.

My conclusions were a mixed bag. First off, yes, the suspension is a bit harsh over those bad bumps, but I seriously doubt that any bike would remain plush and fully composed over such bumps when pushed as hard as I was pushing, unless we're talking very high-dollar Ohlins or Penske suspension. This realization got me to thinking about whether I want to sink another $2-3K in upgraded suspension to make the XSR "perfect," or should I just stop being an idiot and accept that it's plenty good enough as is, and why in the hell am I still pushing that hard anyway?

I decided, no, I'm not going to sink a ton of money into suspension for the XSR. It's just fine as it is, 95% of the time. That other 5%, well, I can just back off a bit there.

During most of that ride I was having a great time, and I was definitely thinking, "This bike seriously rocks. It works perfectly. It sounds great. It's stable. The fueling and throttle response are dialed. The acceleration is insane. It's letting me go faster than I really ought to be going, and it can easily handle a whole lot more."

Up there on Skaggs Springs Rd, and Rockpile Rd, I was having a blast, and the bike really couldn't have been any better. More importantly, I knew it, too, and told myself this, right there inside my helmet. "This is all the bike you need, so stop already. Quit looking at other bikes. Quit thinking about other bikes. Be happy with what you have. This thing is absolutely killer, it sounds and feels wicked as hell, and the seating position doesn't hurt your jacked-up neck. It lets you do everything you like to do on a bike, and it's really good at the main thing you like to do on a bike, which is this stuff, right here, right now. It even gets pretty good fuel mileage (46 mpg, even on those sorts of rides), so just stop already!"

Yep, and as soon as I arrived back home, I popped onto my computer to check out some more Z900 and CB1100 videos.

I don't even know what I think the Z900 will give me that this modded XSR won't. With the ECU reflashed to eliminate all restrictions and match my full Akropovic exhaust system, this bike makes 112.4 at the wheel on the dyno, which is about what a Z900 makes at the rear wheel. It makes about 61 ft.-lbs of torque, which is a bit less than the Z900, but it makes it lower in the powerband. Combined with its much lower overall weight, I'm sure my bike is every bit as fast as a Z900, while being (or at least feeling) even punchier down low. I'm sure my brakes are better, and the suspension is probably about equal.

So why do I still want a Z900? I guess I like its looks better, and maybe the overall sound/feel/character of the motor? I like that its seat height is much lower, and with the way it has you sitting in the bike rather than atop it, like the XSR, I'm sure it offers better wind protection. Also, that price. $8,799 for the ABS model. Yow.

Great, but why do I still look at the CB1100?

I think I'm coming to realize that no matter what I look at, no matter what I ride, nothing tugs at me as hard as the '17 CB1100 EX does. I'm fully aware of its limitations, and I know it would force me to alter not only my riding style but my actual rides—no point in going to my usual race roads anymore if the bike can't handle them—yet I can't escape the CB's pull on me, which surpasses all others.

I shouldn't still be doing what I do on my XSR900. I know this. Even though it's still fun to me, the feeling of exhilaration is always tempered now by a gnawing awareness that this is just plain stupid, which diminishes the fun factor.

More and more, I feel like I simply belong on the CB1100. That's my future. I thought the same thing regarding the T120, but my heart tells me that the Honda is more "me" than the slow-steering, low-revving, British Harley Sportster-equivalent Triumph could ever be.

So, yes, of the pure retros, it's the Honda for me. Now it comes down to this: pure retro, or a hard-bags equipped sport-tourer, like the Ninja 1000 or Tracer 900 GT. If the bare-bones Honda didn't cost as much as those other two—if it only cost as much as the similarly-spec'd Z900, for example—the CB1100 would be the no-brainer choice for me. However, because it does cost just as much as the much higher-spec Ninja 1000 and Tracer GT, well, the Honda becomes a much more difficult sell, particularly in comparison to the Tracer. Hard bags, heated grips, cruise control, traction control, full-color TFT display, center stand, adjustable wind protection, hand guards, adjustable seat height, more upright seating position, much greater legroom, much lower weight, remote preload-adjustable shock, fully adjustable suspension, far superior handling and braking, way more power, AND it's that killer Yamaha Triple?

Brain vs heart. The brain says the Yamaha leaves nothing to be desired. It ticks off every functional box. It's a Yamaha, so its reliability is on par with the Honda's, and the new one is no longer a bad-looking bike, nor is it overly tall, like the old one. And for all that, the heart says the Honda is the one. The Honda is pure. The Honda is why we love motorcycles in the first place. Sure, the Yamaha is faster, sportier, more comfortable, and probably more fun, yet it somehow has the feeling of being more of a two-wheeled conveyance, rather than something that stirs the soul. For all its sporting attributes, it's rather appliance-like.

The Honda is just different. It's the one true outlier. It obviously makes the least sense, while clearly being the most emotionally satisfying choice.

For me, it probably comes down to those two bikes. The Tracer GT won't be out until next summer, however, and the price has yet to be announced. If it pushes much above $12,999, I'd probably drop it from consideration.

When all is said and done, I suspect my next bike will be my original number one choice, a red CB1100 EX. For all the Tracer's welcome appointments and gadgets, I can add heated grips and attach my set of my soft bags to the Honda and not really miss anything else from the Yamaha, and there would be no worries of noisy turbulence from the Yamaha's windscreen.

I suspect that in the end the heart will win. It usually does, right?

Nope, still not a CB1100 owner. A few months ago I made my local dealer an offer on their 2017 EX, and we ended up $800 apart. I've been checking back in every so often to see if the bike is still there. As of a week ago, it's still there. Same vin number.

"So when are you going to actually buy the thing? It obviously has your name on it. You keep coming to visit it, so when are you going to take it home?"

"Hey, I made you an offer."

"Yes, you did."

"Three months later, this thing is still sitting here, and now we're heading into winter. Your sales guy says he has my phone number."

"Yep, we have your info stored in our system."

That's where we're at.

The thing is, other players are starting to enter the picture: the new Yamaha Tracer 900 GT, the new CB1000R, and maybe even a couple of much cheaper options like the new Z900, the new Z650, and the updated-for-2018 MT-07.

I've tried to like the new Z900RS, and while I like it more now than I did when I first saw it, I still don't like it all that much. I'm just not that impressed with its design, and I don't like what I'm hearing about the snatchy throttle response. Considering the enormous price difference, I actually prefer the basic Z900, with its stronger motor and smoother fueling.

In terms of the T120 vs CB1100 debate, I've just about eliminated the T120. I can get good heated grips for the Honda, and I've never had electronic cruise-control on a bike, so I won't miss it. My legs are short enough that the CB's reduced legroom isn't much of an issue. I still love the sound and feel of the Triumph's motor, but I'm fairly convinced now that I would also like the sound and feel of the '17 EX's motor, which sounds different from the '14, plus it's a few ponies stronger. Otherwise, I finally came to the conclusion that I just desire the CB1100 more than I desire the T120. Whereas with the T120 I fear that the bloom would soon fall from the rose once the novelty wore off, the CB1100 feels like more of a long-term affair to me.

I did a 400-mile "race" ride a few days ago on my XSR900. I'd picked up a nail in my rear Q3, which sucks, because that tire only had about two thousand miles on it. So, after replacing it with a new Q3 Plus, I wanted to scrub it in and get rid of the chicken strips.

Thus, the "race" ride. I did the Lake Berryessa/Skaggs Springs route, which is almost completely devoid of traffic this time of year. I had these roads all to my lonesome, so I really went hard. In fact, I pushed harder than I ever had on the XSR900, wanting to test its (our) limits.

Also, I wanted to test the suspension again, since it becomes a bit harsh when pushed really hard over bad stutter bumps.

My conclusions were a mixed bag. First off, yes, the suspension is a bit harsh over those bad bumps, but I seriously doubt that any bike would remain plush and fully composed over such bumps when pushed as hard as I was pushing, unless we're talking very high-dollar Ohlins or Penske suspension. This realization got me to thinking about whether I want to sink another $2-3K in upgraded suspension to make the XSR "perfect," or should I just stop being an idiot and accept that it's plenty good enough as is, and why in the hell am I still pushing that hard anyway?

I decided, no, I'm not going to sink a ton of money into suspension for the XSR. It's just fine as it is, 95% of the time. That other 5%, well, I can just back off a bit there.

During most of that ride I was having a great time, and I was definitely thinking, "This bike seriously rocks. It works perfectly. It sounds great. It's stable. The fueling and throttle response are dialed. The acceleration is insane. It's letting me go faster than I really ought to be going, and it can easily handle a whole lot more."

Up there on Skaggs Springs Rd, and Rockpile Rd, I was having a blast, and the bike really couldn't have been any better. More importantly, I knew it, too, and told myself this, right there inside my helmet. "This is all the bike you need, so stop already. Quit looking at other bikes. Quit thinking about other bikes. Be happy with what you have. This thing is absolutely killer, it sounds and feels wicked as hell, and the seating position doesn't hurt your jacked-up neck. It lets you do everything you like to do on a bike, and it's really good at the main thing you like to do on a bike, which is this stuff, right here, right now. It even gets pretty good fuel mileage (46 mpg, even on those sorts of rides), so just stop already!"

Yep, and as soon as I arrived back home, I popped onto my computer to check out some more Z900 and CB1100 videos.

I don't even know what I think the Z900 will give me that this modded XSR won't. With the ECU reflashed to eliminate all restrictions and match my full Akropovic exhaust system, this bike makes 112.4 at the wheel on the dyno, which is about what a Z900 makes at the rear wheel. It makes about 61 ft.-lbs of torque, which is a bit less than the Z900, but it makes it lower in the powerband. Combined with its much lower overall weight, I'm sure my bike is every bit as fast as a Z900, while being (or at least feeling) even punchier down low. I'm sure my brakes are better, and the suspension is probably about equal.

So why do I still want a Z900? I guess I like its looks better, and maybe the overall sound/feel/character of the motor? I like that its seat height is much lower, and with the way it has you sitting in the bike rather than atop it, like the XSR, I'm sure it offers better wind protection. Also, that price. $8,799 for the ABS model. Yow.

Great, but why do I still look at the CB1100?

I think I'm coming to realize that no matter what I look at, no matter what I ride, nothing tugs at me as hard as the '17 CB1100 EX does. I'm fully aware of its limitations, and I know it would force me to alter not only my riding style but my actual rides—no point in going to my usual race roads anymore if the bike can't handle them—yet I can't escape the CB's pull on me, which surpasses all others.

I shouldn't still be doing what I do on my XSR900. I know this. Even though it's still fun to me, the feeling of exhilaration is always tempered now by a gnawing awareness that this is just plain stupid, which diminishes the fun factor.

More and more, I feel like I simply belong on the CB1100. That's my future. I thought the same thing regarding the T120, but my heart tells me that the Honda is more "me" than the slow-steering, low-revving, British Harley Sportster-equivalent Triumph could ever be.

So, yes, of the pure retros, it's the Honda for me. Now it comes down to this: pure retro, or a hard-bags equipped sport-tourer, like the Ninja 1000 or Tracer 900 GT. If the bare-bones Honda didn't cost as much as those other two—if it only cost as much as the similarly-spec'd Z900, for example—the CB1100 would be the no-brainer choice for me. However, because it does cost just as much as the much higher-spec Ninja 1000 and Tracer GT, well, the Honda becomes a much more difficult sell, particularly in comparison to the Tracer. Hard bags, heated grips, cruise control, traction control, full-color TFT display, center stand, adjustable wind protection, hand guards, adjustable seat height, more upright seating position, much greater legroom, much lower weight, remote preload-adjustable shock, fully adjustable suspension, far superior handling and braking, way more power, AND it's that killer Yamaha Triple?

Brain vs heart. The brain says the Yamaha leaves nothing to be desired. It ticks off every functional box. It's a Yamaha, so its reliability is on par with the Honda's, and the new one is no longer a bad-looking bike, nor is it overly tall, like the old one. And for all that, the heart says the Honda is the one. The Honda is pure. The Honda is why we love motorcycles in the first place. Sure, the Yamaha is faster, sportier, more comfortable, and probably more fun, yet it somehow has the feeling of being more of a two-wheeled conveyance, rather than something that stirs the soul. For all its sporting attributes, it's rather appliance-like.

The Honda is just different. It's the one true outlier. It obviously makes the least sense, while clearly being the most emotionally satisfying choice.

For me, it probably comes down to those two bikes. The Tracer GT won't be out until next summer, however, and the price has yet to be announced. If it pushes much above $12,999, I'd probably drop it from consideration.

When all is said and done, I suspect my next bike will be my original number one choice, a red CB1100 EX. For all the Tracer's welcome appointments and gadgets, I can add heated grips and attach my set of my soft bags to the Honda and not really miss anything else from the Yamaha, and there would be no worries of noisy turbulence from the Yamaha's windscreen.

I suspect that in the end the heart will win. It usually does, right?
I bought a new Ninja ZX 9R, set it up with Race Tech forks and Penske shock, set up for me by Race Tech, did many track days and lots of street miles. I bought a 2013 CB 1100 with less than 2,000 miles, from a dealer, after test riding it and a Guzzi, for $7,000 out the door. I love the Ninja and the CB 1100, two very different bikes for how I feel at the time. Along the way I owned a Monster 1100 for two years, not a keeper for me. You can have your cake and eat it too.