Here's what's in my garage for 2018

[Flytech99_imp]

Ulvetanna Wrote:The real fix is to get a '17 EX. Yes, the EX forks and shock will help some, but they are calibrated to work with the chassis of the EX, and I think the overall package is going to work much better than tossing $1500 at the Deluxe.

I honestly don't think the first generation CB1100 is going to have the ride or handling the later model has. If you are making these observations now, chasing fixes probably won't work.
Good point. The chassis are slightly different, though I don't think the difference extends beyond the different width and location of the upper fork brace. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Honda altered the rake or trail or anything else with the frame on the '17 EX, compared to the previous models.

I suspect that a suspension swap to the '17 EX's components will result in significant improvement; perhaps not identical to the '17, but close enough.

Good point. The chassis are slightly different, though I don't think the difference extends beyond the different width and location of the upper fork brace. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Honda altered the rake or trail or anything else with the frame on the '17 EX, compared to the previous models.

I suspect that a suspension swap to the '17 EX's components will result in significant improvement; perhaps not identical to the '17, but close enough. I bet the powertrain changes helped. I understand some modifications were done to the ECU, subtle changes in timing, fueling to change the feel. The whole package is really massaged all the way through.

Your take on the '14 was that it was rather crude; agreed, that's why I felt I couldn't really get what I wanted from the '13. Someone looking for really sorted handling and the kind of throttle performance I was seeking is not gonna get that from the first generation.

This forum is littered with the memories of highly-modified, but sold-for-a-song first-generation CB1100s. Some guys poured tens of thousands of dollars into their machines and still ended up selling them. I been around here, lurking, visiting since 2013.

There was Motogeezer's bike, a real beauty, highly-modded. Just one example. I can think of one other, can't recall the member's handle, he'd done the bike up real nice with Ohlins shocks, all kinds of stuff. Then he sold it.

And so on.

Having worked on my '13 for four years, and still never getting it right, I think the whole package from the 2017 onward is needed to really get the bike to work as a seamless unit, for those who like to push the envelope and ride in a sporting fashion.

I don't know of a single attempt that's been really successful with respect to the earlier version.

I haven't managed to get to a dealer to take another look at that '17, which is a beauty, but I can say that the '13 whetted my appetite for more. I think your ride report, on the 2017, will be quite different than the 2014.

I think some of these observations are subjective. Owners/riders spending gobs of cash to customize and/or personalize their motorcycle isn't necessarily an indication the bike is incompetent. I think it has more to do with preference, personal taste, varying riding styles, unrealistic expectations and chasing unattainable goals... which may also be the nature of motorcycle owners in general and not just a CB1100 thing, lol.

In defense of the CB1100, I'll say this.... If aggressive sporty riding is your main goal, the CB probably isn't the bike for you. Weight, brakes, suspension, tires, etc. all contribute to this limitation. Personally, I try to "improve" everything I drive or ride.... That's not just limited to performance, but has more to do with improving the driving or riding experience. Thus, I believe the CB is an excellent build platform for that approach.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

The 2017 bar clamp position got moved farther forward of the stem centerline.
So, in addition to opening up the cockpit larger for taller riders, does this change do anything else, like changing steering input and/or steering effort goes?

ps, the '17 pinch bolt got relocated to the back vs '13/14 front.

You better know it!

Offset is a big factor in stability and handling, and while I didn't specifically recall the details, I felt there had been more than just the forks changed.

Not only the forks, but triple clamps, too.

But...the frame and swingers are different part numbers. That's HUGE. Subtle differences in rake, trail, wheelbase, and swingarm pivot to countershaft make BIG differences in handling.

I am glad you brought this up. The fact that not only are the forks and shocks different, but the entire frame/swingarm assembly, means Honda did a very major massage to the bike to improve handling. It was obviously a comprehensive and integrated approach.

VLJ commented that the 2017 seemed to have no driveline lash to speak of. Every bike has some driveline lash, of course, but the CB1100 does have significant lash compared to many other bikes. Not problematic, but there. Heavy flywheel, drivetrain, large-displacement engine, no throttle-by-wire nor secondary butterflies means it is all in the wrist.

I am guessing that VLJ has a pretty well-trained wrist and if he states the new bike has no issue regarding driveline lash, I speculate that some of the issue has been ameliorated by the changes in the swingarm and frame.

 

[VLJ_imp]

Ulvetanna Wrote:I am guessing that VLJ has a pretty well-trained wrist
So many jokes ready-made there, and I'm counting on you miscreants to resist the temptation.

 

[ohiorider_imp]

Let me clarify my position. I've been riding motorcycles and motorbikes since 1960. My first bike (that I owned)was a 1963 BSA Spitfire Scrambler. I didn't know any better, so I rode this bike from Charleston, West Virginia almost to Brownsville Texas and back home in August, 1966. But remember, I was 23, not 75 at the time.

Let me clarify: I am not a track day rider. I am not a canyon racer.

All I expect of a 500 pound bike that looks like it was designed to be a daily rider, a do it all machine ...... is to be just that.

With front suspension that doesn't destroy wrists, and rear suspension that doesn't catapult the rider off the seat.

I have logged over 500,000 miles on motorcycles.

In my wildest dreams, I never expected the CB1100 to be a harsh riding machine. I guess I was beguiled by the standard appearance of the bike. And I thought Honda would market this bike as a standard that took on standard tasks, including roads that weren't A++ in smoothness.

They didn't, and I'm disappointed.

That's it for me.

Bob

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Let me clarify my position. I've been riding motorcycles and motorbikes since 1960. My first bike (that I owned)was a 1963 BSA Spitfire Scrambler. I didn't know any better, so I rode this bike from Charleston, West Virginia almost to Brownsville Texas and back home in August, 1966. But remember, I was 23, not 75 at the time.

Let me clarify: I am not a track day rider. I am not a canyon racer.

All I expect of a 500 pound bike that looks like it was designed to be a daily rider, a do it all machine ...... is to be just that.

With front suspension that doesn't destroy wrists, and rear suspension that doesn't catapult the rider off the seat.

I have logged over 500,000 miles on motorcycles.

In my wildest dreams, I never expected the CB1100 to be a harsh riding machine. I guess I was beguiled by the standard appearance of the bike. And I thought Honda would market this bike as a standard that took on standard tasks, including roads that weren't A++ in smoothness.

They didn't, and I'm disappointed.

That's it for me.

Bob

First off, I THANK you for clarifying your experience. Makes it a lot easier to see where you are coming from here an avoid assumptions about how perhaps I somehow know more about riding than you do. Unlikely.

At any rate, Bob, welcome to the club. That's exactly why I traded my 2013 Standard for something else a little over a year ago. And I replaced the shocks, handlebars, and changed to a thicker fork oil. For the sporting rider or someone who rides the bike a little harder than status quo, it does not quite meet the needs in the first iteration.

I speculate the second generation is going to be excellent.

Did you not read my much-loved, greatly-appreciated "Sayonara to the CB1100, with an Exit Interview?" Those same concerns, along with regrets, were poignantly noted; with the stoicism of a Spartan, the philosophical insight of a Plato, and even-tempered acceptance of a Confucius, I finally had to let it go.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I am now eyeing a 2017 EX very critically; but, with a sense of pure objectivity, aloof and keenly analytical, like a German philosopher, I will eventually make the right decision.

"Okay, enough of that BS..."

-Bill Paxton's character in Titanic after spouting a lot of pseudo-romantic nonsense.

 

[Cormanus]

Ulvetanna Wrote:I am guessing that VLJ has a pretty well-trained wrist
So many jokes ready-made there, and I'm counting on you miscreants to resist the temptation.

So many jokes ready-made there, and I'm counting on you miscreants to resist the temptation.
Yes. Please resist. It’s such a bore having to delete posts.

 

[cookiemech]

Let me clarify my position. I've been riding motorcycles and motorbikes since 1960. My first bike (that I owned)was a 1963 BSA Spitfire Scrambler. I didn't know any better, so I rode this bike from Charleston, West Virginia almost to Brownsville Texas and back home in August, 1966. But remember, I was 23, not 75 at the time.

Let me clarify: I am not a track day rider. I am not a canyon racer.

All I expect of a 500 pound bike that looks like it was designed to be a daily rider, a do it all machine ...... is to be just that.

With front suspension that doesn't destroy wrists, and rear suspension that doesn't catapult the rider off the seat.

I have logged over 500,000 miles on motorcycles.

In my wildest dreams, I never expected the CB1100 to be a harsh riding machine. I guess I was beguiled by the standard appearance of the bike. And I thought Honda would market this bike as a standard that took on standard tasks, including roads that weren't A++ in smoothness.

They didn't, and I'm disappointed.

That's it for me.

Bob

Bob - Very sorry to hear it's not working out for you . . . I followed your interest and then purchase of that bike on the OTHER forum we both frequent (are we allowed to mention other forums here?). In fact, a guy named Bob with both Guzzi and BMW interests picking up a CB1100 was a factor in me ordering one a couple of weeks ago. I'm selling my Guzzi and replacing it with the CB1100; the Guzzi is beautiful, but just never turned me on in any way. Haven't had a Honda since about 1981, so thought it's time.

I'm a bit younger (61), but with a similar number of miles in my experience. Hopefully the changes they've made on the 2017 model will improve ride quality; maybe I won't know the difference. My two old K bikes ride and handle well, but are a bit harsh on the busted Pennsylvania roads. My Harleys are absolutely stellar in ride quality (well, 823 and 929 pounds in wet weights helps). My KLR (2009, totally stock) works well with all that suspension travel.

Guess if you can't find satisfaction it's better to dump it. Life's too short . . .

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not difficult but expensive. Damping must behave differently at high and low speed. Also having separate compression/rebound damping adjustments and hi/lo speed circuits. Springs must be designed correctly, much more meticulously. Materials, thickness, rates, coil spacing. The bike that feels overly firm on the showroom floor will probably ride with more comfort and compliance than the one that feels like a pogo stick. Dynamics of weight, velocity, impact of bumps.

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really think the "Don't know, it just goes" philosophy is very often the best.

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean Ikons, no?

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Ikons are Koni. I thought that was well known?

KONI made motorcycle shock absorbers from 1967 which were imported into Australia by Proven Products Pty Ltd.

Koni decided to close it’s production of motorcycle shock absorbers in 2000.

This decision lead to a special licence agreement being struck between Proven and Koni allowing Proven to make the motorcycle shocks under its own name for the worldwide market- Ikon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Ikons are Koni. I thought that was well known?

KONI made motorcycle shock absorbers from 1967 which were imported into Australia by Proven Products Pty Ltd.

Koni decided to close it’s production of motorcycle shock absorbers in 2000.

This decision lead to a special licence agreement being struck between Proven and Koni allowing Proven to make the motorcycle shocks under its own name for the worldwide market- Ikon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I knew that already, so it is fairly well-known but I imagine only to those having contact with the subject. Like hardly anyone knows Nissan used to be Datsun. Having installed Ikons on my own CB1100, I take it they are Ikons. I don't call them Koni, the guy I ordered 'em from didn't call 'em Konis, so I was confused.

All that pedantic drivel aside, Ikons are very good shocks and you have a most excellent setup.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Speaking of pedantic drivel, I had a Datsun 610 once! And to keep on a motorcycle topic, the car had a trailer hitch and I would pull a motorcycle trailer with my Yamaha XS750 on it. Or 850, can’t remember

 

[the Ferret]

Datsun 240Z's were quite the hot ticket back in the day, although they wouldn't out accelerate any good medium sized motorcycle

 

[DaSwami_imp]

It must be a weight thing. I'm almost twice your size and the CB1100 suspension is awesome for me, can't remember what the preload settings are on my bike but it is neither softest or highest setting.

When you talk about the CB1100 it's like you are describing my old 2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone. THAT was a harsh rear suspension!

 

[ohiorider_imp]

It must be a weight thing. I'm almost twice your size and the CB1100 suspension is awesome for me, can't remember what the preload settings are on my bike but it is neither softest or highest setting.

When you talk about the CB1100 it's like you are describing my old 2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone. THAT was a harsh rear suspension!

It probably is a weight thing. I weight in at about 160#, and the CB absolutely beats me up on anything but a perfectly smooth road. Unfortunately, many of the roads to and from my favorite small town destinations here in NE Ohio are not in the best of shape. My old BMW R100GS takes this in stride. I don't expect the Honda to do as well, but I do hope I can resolve the fork issue. Don't expect GS compliance, but I do need a more compliant ride.

Bob

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

It must be a weight thing. I'm almost twice your size and the CB1100 suspension is awesome for me, can't remember what the preload settings are on my bike but it is neither softest or highest setting.

When you talk about the CB1100 it's like you are describing my old 2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone. THAT was a harsh rear suspension!

It probably is a weight thing. I weight in at about 160#, and the CB absolutely beats me up on anything but a perfectly smooth road. Unfortunately, many of the roads to and from my favorite small town destinations here in NE Ohio are not in the best of shape. My old BMW R100GS takes this in stride. I don't expect the Honda to do as well, but I do hope I can resolve the fork issue. Don't expect GS compliance, but I do need a more compliant ride.

Bob

It probably is a weight thing. I weight in at about 160#, and the CB absolutely beats me up on anything but a perfectly smooth road. Unfortunately, many of the roads to and from my favorite small town destinations here in NE Ohio are not in the best of shape. My old BMW R100GS takes this in stride. I don't expect the Honda to do as well, but I do hope I can resolve the fork issue. Don't expect GS compliance, but I do need a more compliant ride.

Bob Of course your R100GS takes it in stride! I had one, fantastic bike over any kind of surface, dirt roads, etcetera. I did install a Works Performance rear shock.

That bike had about the best ride of any bike I have ever owned. Way better than my 2013 F800GS, which I eventually traded in after it reached 10,000 miles.

I speculate the new F850GS will be a lot better, with the fuel tank moved back to the usual spot. That bike wanted to spit the back end out at the drop of a hat, so much weight over the rear tire due to the underseat tank. Which also swelled and cracked.

Looks very nice but no more big ADV bikes for me.

 

[Guth_imp]

I think that some guys are just much more sensitive to certain aspects of riding than others are. Take the stock seat for example: for some it's way too soft and for others it's way too hard. When it comes to the suspension, I'm guessing that it's much the same. And some guys simply like to change things up while other guys more or less adapt to whatever they happen to be riding without any issues. There is no right or wrong in such cases, these things just are what they are.

I remember going to watch the vintage motorcycle races a number of years ago out at Portland International Raceway. It was a great day as they had everything from road racing to motocross along with a bike show and swap meet (not to mention all of the cool bikes that everyone rode to the event). I saw a lot of memorable motorcycles there that day. I also saw a lot of guys racing a lot of neat old bikes. The most memorable rider that day was a guy racing motocross. The class he was racing in featured a wide span of year models and there were many guys on faster bikes than his with much nicer suspension setups. Yet this guy left everyone in his dust — quite literally in this case. He was just so much smoother than everyone else it wasn't even funny. I'm guessing that had he been on one of his competitor's bikes the difference would have been even more notable. But as it was I think he was already having more fun out there than anyone else. I have no idea who this guy was, but I found watching him to be rather inspirational. I sometimes think about that guy when I'm out riding. Not the fast part, but simply the fun part.

I recently changed out my seat and bars (going a bit lower in both cases). This didn't have anything to do with the handling or my comfort while riding the bike. I simply wanted to better be able to flat foot the thing while stopped or while moving it in and out of parking situations. My CB is already more than capable for how I ride, I figure the rest is up to me to continue to improve and get better. However, if I felt that some part of this machine was holding me back or causing me discomfort then I definitely wouldn't have a problem making a change if it meant the difference between selling the bike or keeping it.

 

[spacetiger_imp]

Bob,

Last time I swapped posts with you, you were making adjustments to your suspension. What did you finally settle on?

Jerry

It must be a weight thing. I'm almost twice your size and the CB1100 suspension is awesome for me, can't remember what the preload settings are on my bike but it is neither softest or highest setting.

When you talk about the CB1100 it's like you are describing my old 2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone. THAT was a harsh rear suspension!

It probably is a weight thing. I weight in at about 160#, and the CB absolutely beats me up on anything but a perfectly smooth road. Unfortunately, many of the roads to and from my favorite small town destinations here in NE Ohio are not in the best of shape. My old BMW R100GS takes this in stride. I don't expect the Honda to do as well, but I do hope I can resolve the fork issue. Don't expect GS compliance, but I do need a more compliant ride.

Bob

It probably is a weight thing. I weight in at about 160#, and the CB absolutely beats me up on anything but a perfectly smooth road. Unfortunately, many of the roads to and from my favorite small town destinations here in NE Ohio are not in the best of shape. My old BMW R100GS takes this in stride. I don't expect the Honda to do as well, but I do hope I can resolve the fork issue. Don't expect GS compliance, but I do need a more compliant ride.

Bob