Front brakes squeal...this feels like a saga in the making

[the Ferret]

:rofl: yea...he's kidding folks, don't anybody do that

 

[Houtman_imp]

I am hoping that people realize that I was kidding , but thanks for pointing this out !

 

[Acrobat_imp]

Acrobat, ABS sensors don't measure anything that has to do with the brake pad compound, so switching to aftermarket pads should have no effect on the ABS system. I changed pad compounds on my ABS-equipped XSR900, to no ill effect.

So, from what you're saying, the only remedy they've tried that worked (other than swapping pads) was adding grease to the back of the pads?

Yes, that's why when you're more hard on brakes the extra force minimize the vibration. Grease suppresses the vibration and there is no noise. Until Honda or their supplier come up with a new compound combination.

Of course this is also not a very elegant engineering solution like Triumph's ridiculous rubber patch.

You are right also about ABS sensors, but the job of ABS is to use this measurement to modulate breaking as long as you apply pressure on the lever after detecting locking. And friction characteristics plays a major role to the performance of the ABS.

The devil is in the details...

 

[jtopiso_imp]

Acrobat, ABS sensors don't measure anything that has to do with the brake pad compound, so switching to aftermarket pads should have no effect on the ABS system. I changed pad compounds on my ABS-equipped XSR900, to no ill effect.

So, from what you're saying, the only remedy they've tried that worked (other than swapping pads) was adding grease to the back of the pads?

Yes, that's why when you're more hard on brakes the extra force minimize the vibration. Grease suppresses the vibration and there is no noise. Until Honda or their supplier come up with a new compound combination.

Of course this is also not a very elegant engineering solution like Triumph's ridiculous rubber patch.

You are right also about ABS sensors, but the job of ABS is to use this measurement to modulate breaking as long as you apply pressure on the lever after detecting locking. And friction characteristics plays a major role to the performance of the ABS.

The devil is in the details...

The ABS was tuned under a certain conditions, which are usualy diferent to what we find in real use.

So the ABS is tuned making several assumptions, and leaving some security marging to make sure the bike remains stable (even if it means losing some braking capacity). The biggest assumption, which varies from day to day, from bike to bike is the one which imposes the biggest limit on braking performance: tire grip against the ground. You can easily ride anyday with a fricition coeficient varying between 0.6 to 1.4, and the ABS programming is still the same wether you ride on wet cold morning with old tires, or you can have new sticky tyres in hot summer, mid day, on a race track.

So do brake pads matter to ABS? Yes they do, but in an order of magnitud (or two) less than the tires or the tarmac.

 

[Aussieflyer]

You could try taking the sharp edge off the pad friction material. Run a file at 45 degrees around the pad to round off the sharp corner. This may help to reduce the chance of vibration, it's worked for me in the past ... no guarantees.

 

[CA200_imp]

Back when we had our store we sold several brands of brake pads. People
would come to us with squeal issues. As I remember it mostly was on modern
brakes on spoke wheels. I can think of a couple of Suzuki models that stand out. It sounds like most people have some good ideas so far. As I remember
there was a product out there just made for the back of brake pads that worked well.

 

[Nortoon_imp]

You could try taking the sharp edge off the pad friction material. Run a file at 45 degrees around the pad to round off the sharp corner. This may help to reduce the chance of vibration, it's worked for me in the past ... no guarantees.

That was one of the things the dealer suggested to me. But they did not touch the front brakes when replacing the rear disk and pads under warranty.

 

[ohiorider_imp]

I've had several bikes whose front brakes squealed when applied. Solution was simple. Google for "brake grease to eliminate squealing." I've used both a 'grease' that came in a tube and applied a thin coat to the pad backing where it contacts the caliper pistons. Also used a spray on the same location (back of pads) that was blue in color, but dried in seconds. Both products eliminated the squealing.

Bob

 

[VLJ_imp]

Brought the bike back to the dealer today. Sunny day, so they were able to ride the bike and do their thing.

First off, the Service Manager called Honda to see whether they would authorize a warranty job for squealing brakes. Apparently the answer was yes, because he went ahead with the job. I told him what people here have been advising, i.e., apply brake grease behind the pads, and file off the edges of the pads.

Those two things are exactly what Honda recommended to his service tech, and that's what the guy did.

When the job was finished, I took her out for a quick hundred-mile spin in the foothills. There was one instance when I thought I might have heard some slight squealing, so I removed my earplugs and rode the rest of the way without them. I'm not sure, but there was one additional time when I thought I might have heard a tiny bit of squeal, but it was iffy. It may have been the cars in front of and beside me. Otherwise, there were many other slow, gradual stops that were completely silent. I tried like crazy to make them squeal, and even without earplugs they passed all my usual tests.

So, either it's 100% fixed, or very close to 100%. Hopefully this proves to be a permanent solution.

 

[the Ferret]

Hope it works Vealjay. Hate to see perfection tarnished.

 

[VLJ_imp]

Perfection is a real problem. I realize this now, with this bike. The cosmetics are so gorgeous that I lose my mind the second I spot a speck of grease on a wheel, a scuff mark where my knees contact the side of the tank, a swirl pattern or slight haze on the tank, polish lines in the instrument display, etc.

I was similarly anal about my first VFR. I haven't been that anal about any other bike, until now, with this CB1100.

I really need to knock it off, before I drive myself crazy and/or stop enjoying the bike.

 

[the Ferret]

The instrument faces need special care. THey are not glass anymore. When they get dusty don't wipe them with your finger. Squirt some water on them first then use a good plastic polish and soft cloth. Same for the headlight.

 

[Houtman_imp]

Perfection is a real problem. I realize this now, with this bike. The cosmetics are so gorgeous that I lose my mind the second I spot a speck of grease on a wheel, a scuff mark where my knees contact the side of the tank, a swirl pattern or slight haze on the tank, polish lines in the instrument display, etc.

I was similarly anal about my first VFR. I haven't been that anal about any other bike, until now, with this CB1100.

I really need to knock it off, before I drive myself crazy and/or stop enjoying the bike.

Take up drinking as a second hobby !

 

[johnf514_imp]

Happy to see Honda getting behind this fix and I hope it stays sorted for you VLJ.

 

[Bobcat_imp]

Brought the bike back to the dealer today. Sunny day, so they were able to ride the bike and do their thing.

First off, the Service Manager called Honda to see whether they would authorize a warranty job for squealing brakes. Apparently the answer was yes, because he went ahead with the job. I told him what people here have been advising, i.e., apply brake grease behind the pads, and file off the edges of the pads.

Those two things are exactly what Honda recommended to his service tech, and that's what the guy did.

When the job was finished, I took her out for a quick hundred-mile spin in the foothills. There was one instance when I thought I might have heard some slight squealing, so I removed my earplugs and rode the rest of the way without them. I'm not sure, but there was one additional time when I thought I might have heard a tiny bit of squeal, but it was iffy. It may have been the cars in front of and beside me. Otherwise, there were many other slow, gradual stops that were completely silent. I tried like crazy to make them squeal, and even without earplugs they passed all my usual tests.

So, either it's 100% fixed, or very close to 100%. Hopefully this proves to be a permanent solution.

I have had the same issue with my 2017 EX and plan to bevel the pad edges and add some grease to interface between the pads and pistons. I'll reply back once I know if it solves my problem.

Just a note for anyone who might be planning to perform the same procedure: the factory service manual states that the caliper mounting bolts need to be replaced rather than reused. I assume that means they are a torque-to-yield type of bolt. The part number for the bolt is 90131-MGC-000.

 

[Cormanus]

Welcome, Bobcat.

 

[VLJ_imp]

The squeal had been completely absent for a decent while now, but a bit of squeal returned yesterday.

Sigh.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Brought the bike back to the dealer today. Sunny day, so they were able to ride the bike and do their thing.

First off, the Service Manager called Honda to see whether they would authorize a warranty job for squealing brakes. Apparently the answer was yes, because he went ahead with the job. I told him what people here have been advising, i.e., apply brake grease behind the pads, and file off the edges of the pads.

Those two things are exactly what Honda recommended to his service tech, and that's what the guy did.

When the job was finished, I took her out for a quick hundred-mile spin in the foothills. There was one instance when I thought I might have heard some slight squealing, so I removed my earplugs and rode the rest of the way without them. I'm not sure, but there was one additional time when I thought I might have heard a tiny bit of squeal, but it was iffy. It may have been the cars in front of and beside me. Otherwise, there were many other slow, gradual stops that were completely silent. I tried like crazy to make them squeal, and even without earplugs they passed all my usual tests.

So, either it's 100% fixed, or very close to 100%. Hopefully this proves to be a permanent solution.

I have had the same issue with my 2017 EX and plan to bevel the pad edges and add some grease to interface between the pads and pistons. I'll reply back once I know if it solves my problem.

Just a note for anyone who might be planning to perform the same procedure: the factory service manual states that the caliper mounting bolts need to be replaced rather than reused. I assume that means they are a torque-to-yield type of bolt. The part number for the bolt is 90131-MGC-000.

I understand that they are an ALOC bolt with blue Loctite pre-applied.
Don't know if bolt stretch is the issue or just be sure to use Loctite.
If you do re-use, be sure to first remove old Loctite with wire brush and/or acetone, etc.

Perfection is a real problem. I realize this now, with this bike. The cosmetics are so gorgeous that I lose my mind the second I spot a speck of grease on a wheel, a scuff mark where my knees contact the side of the tank, a swirl pattern or slight haze on the tank, polish lines in the instrument display, etc.

I was similarly anal about my first VFR. I haven't been that anal about any other bike, until now, with this CB1100.

I really need to knock it off, before I drive myself crazy and/or stop enjoying the bike.

Is crazy really such a negative thing?!

 

[pdedse]

The squeal had been completely absent for a decent while now, but a bit of squeal returned yesterday.

Sigh.

Interesting...mine w/out doing anything hasn't happened for several rides now. Maybe I'm subconsciously controlling for it by braking more firmly. When your acts up, can you make it happen every time you come to a stop, or is it sporadic?

 

[VLJ_imp]

Sporadic. It doesn't do it much now, or often.