Feasibility of a Modern CB750

LongRanger_imp said:
I don't know if it's as much the benefits of new technology as it is the styling. Today's new riders have no connection to the UJM's of the past. Instead, they're likely more influenced by today's designs.

As a new rider / driver growing up in the 60's, I had zero interest in the hot rods and motorcycles of the 30's / 40's / 50's. I wanted the current stuff. Back then, the styling of the CB750 was groundbreaking and very appealing. Those old '50's BMW's, Triumph's, Harley's and Moto Guzzi's? Too heavy and frumpy. Yuck!

So, perhaps today's new rider views a '70's or '80's superbike the same way. We may love those bikes, but today's kids didn't grow up coveting one, the bikes have dated technology and performance, and the colors are garish compared to today's matte and/or blacked-out finishes. Why would a CB750 redo hold any appeal to them?
Click to expand...
Put so much better than I could manage it. Thank you.
 
Roper_imp said:
Stichill_imp said:
In the wake of Motus’s demise, I saw this comment in reaction to the Revzilla story about the end of Motus:

“Have Honda build a CB750 styled like its CB1100, give it a fuel injected inline 4 with about 90 horsepower and sell it for between $7500 and $8500. Keep weight to no more than 450 lbs and make it devoid of electronic gadgetry.”

Obviously it would have to be liquid cooled, but other than that compromise...reaction?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It pretty much already exists.

Current CB650F: Liquid cooled I-4, 86hp, 454 lbs, base MSRP $8249. Only difference is more modern than retro style.
Click to expand...
It pretty much already exists.

Current CB650F: Liquid cooled I-4, 86hp, 454 lbs, base MSRP $8249. Only difference is more modern than retro style.
Replace the angular headlights and fairing on the CB650F with a round headlight and you closer to the goal.
 
m in sc_imp said:
the reality is, triumph secured the monopoly on the modern retro market over 10 years ago.and the modern sport and touring bikes are flat out fantastic as well. those bonnevilles and derivitives are EVERYWHERE. they did it with price point and quality, and until recently the retros were performance turds, and triumph sold millions of them anyway. honda, yamaha, and kawasaki missed securing the retro market due to price point, plain and simple. I NEVER would have paid 11, 12, 13k for a cb1100, never. the 6k i paid is less than i was willing to pay. When they came out, if they were in the 8500 range, i would have bought one. wasn't enough bang for buck. especially since i bought my ducati sport classic for 9k at the time.
Click to expand...
As they seem rather desirable these days, I suppose I'm in the minority. But the Ducati Sport Classic always struck me as such a strange bike from a design perspective. There were a few angles where I personally thought that it looked attractive, with "few" being the operative word here. From the rear view it looks like it was built to carry two-up, side by side that is.

Out of all the modern retro bikes the proceeded the CB1100, Kawasaki's W650 was the one that I'd most have liked to own.
 
Wide angle lenses can be deceiving. It's all got to do with the angle from which you view it. The first time I saw one in person I was wondering what on earth were they were thinking with that cowl?



"Did you hear the one about the motorcycle and the tractor that fell in love?" Sorry couldn't resist.

This guy goes into a bit more detail, lol.
 
Didn't look like there was a difference in the seat/cowl design from the article that I linked to. Here was that bike before he slapped the aftermarket unit on there. Still looks like it's in need of a diet to me.



But indeed to each their own. That bike doesn't hold as much appeal to me but I'm sure that there are plenty who enjoy their Ducs over a bike like the CB1100. Variety is the spice of life.
 
I'm the second. I think they're hideous. Even the Paul Smart. The fuel tank is mis-proportioned and there's too much distance between the rear tire and the rear fender. I like the DS1000 engine but I think the bikes look like bloated turds. Now, show me a real 900SS bevel and my opinion will change dramatically.
 
Take comfort, Guth and LongRanger. I’m with you. On second thoughts, maybe you should be afraid.
 
m in sc_imp said:
Yes indeed. having actually owned both, the duc is a much meaner looking bike, not nearly as stodgy or stuffy as the cb is. More business, and the tail never bothered me. . in the pics you show, they look stubby, which is funny, they are not quite like that in real life. they do look terrible with the tail off, that i can assure you.

I sold mine because i had it for 8+ years, and figured id get out while the market was still strong, made quite a wad on it upon sale, which was nice, especially as i didn't buy it as an investment. Dead reliable, more comfortable that you'd think, and was quite fast with the termis and the fat duc ecu. I did a few 5+ hour rides on it.

I can say though, you are the -only - person i've ever ran across that didn't like the way they looked.
Click to expand...
Well, me and the guy that wrote the article that I referenced, lol. Plenty of people have bagged on the rear fender clearance over the years, but that Duc is what it is. I'm the first to admit that looks are subjective. That was what turned me off to the Ducati and what was the single biggest draw for me when it came to the CB1100 — regardless of what anyone else thought of the bike.
m in sc_imp said:
oh, they are collectible, make no doubt. But i understand. I have my preferences as well. im prob the ONLY person on here that HATES the red deluxe whatever cbs with the bigger tanks and abs. If i hadn't seen a black one, in person, a year and a half ago, i never would have owned a cb1100 on looks alone, especially after seeing a 14 in red way back when they came out.. and i like red, had a 1st year CB400f super sport and a 75 CB750f in red. they both looked great IMHO.

to be honest, id love to see an 1100 in the old school gold color with black accents, but on the modern bodywork. (sic: 72 cb450). I bet that would be pretty trick. or horrible, i dunno. lol.
Click to expand...
Well, I wouldn't say that I hate the Sport Classic, nor do I hate the DLX, but anyone that's been around here for a while knows that I've voiced my displeasure with the bulbous shape of the DLX tank plenty of times. I get the appeal of the added capacity (the Sport Classic tank didn't do much for me either for that matter). The 17 EX tank has become a non-discussion for me, not going there. The black 14's don't really do all that much for me visually either, but I can understand why others really dig them. Different strokes. One man's garbage is another man's treasure was likely never more true than when it comes to cars and motorcycles. Plenty of guys like the CB1100 but can't stand the signature silver side panels. I'm really glad that Honda ended up mixing it up with the CB, a little something for everyone (well, maybe not everyone).

I really liked the old CB400F — my favorite set of motorcycle headers ever. As far as Ducs go, nothing beats the styling of a Darmah to my eye. Love the way those bikes look.
 
m in sc, I too had a CB400F SuperSport (1976 model in blue) and a CB750F SuperSport (1978 model in black). Both lovely bikes. The CB1100 feels and rides a lot like my '78 CB750F (as much as I can remember from 40 years ago). Like the CB1100, I bought those two Honda's for the way they looked.

I also had a pristine, all-original '70 CB750K0. All I can say about that experience is we're really spoiled by today's bikes!
 
When the Sport Classics first came out, I soooo wanted the GT, with it's regular handlebars. Even after a lengthy test ride that showed how light and balanced it was, I couldn't pull the trigger. The overall ugliness was too much to overcome, especially compared to my old 750GT. It could have been great, instead, a missed opportunity.
Like all Ducatis, the signature perimeter frame design allowed it no steering lock, and made for some awkward views at the front of the tank. The narrowest engine with the widest frame, all for an airbox that could have flanked a narrower frame. Plus the downward slope of the tank/seat made for a huge unsightly gap above the rear wheel.
I love the looks of the standard CB1100, especially in black. Only wish it had a stock, less bulbous 4-into-2 exhaust.
 
So many compromises must be made in terms of design that it's mind boggling to think about. I met a younger guy this past week that had been a designer for Ford who recently took a job with Daimler (located here in Portland). We were talking at great length about the process and how segregated things are within the various design-related specialties. He was involved at the very earliest stages of the concept design. So he would stand to see the most amount of change from the time he is involved on any given project. His work is passed on to many other individual teams dedicated to virtual rendering, aerodynamics, clay modeling, etc., etc.. It was a truly fascinating discussion for someone like me and I was grateful for both his enthusiasm and his patience withe me, lol. I actually purchased a couple of books on illustrating/rendering vehicle design last year just out of personal interest and it turned out that the author of the books was one of his key instructors at school. Small world.

Anyway, I realize that it's easy for me to sit around and nitpick other's designs, it's what so many of us do. But I also do understand just how complicated the process is and have a great deal of respect for those who do what they do.

As far as a "modern CB750" is concerned, water cooling is just a non starter for me personally, and that's before you get to any kind of styling/design exercises. That changes the whole soul of the bike and once that's done I'm not nearly as interested in how it might look.
 
m in sc_imp said:
maybe im odd, but i always place function over form, looks being second on my priorities. I cant see it when im on it. But i can see yours when i pass it. :P lol
Click to expand...
I had already guessed this. ;)
 
It's a bit like with the original Multistrada. I rode a fair bit on an 1100S, with the Ohlins, and it is to this date one of the best riding bikes I have ever tried. The engine was perfect, the chassis superb, and the riding position just right. I so wanted to get one, but every time I would actually have to look at it, I just couldn't pull the trigger. The modern Multistradas are a bit better looking, but they have become too big, heavy and sophisticated. As bikes goes, the original was perfect, except for the looks!

Personally I always like the Sports Classics, and have always thought that Ducati got their timing wrong. They now have the Scramblers that are selling well, but I so wish they would take that aircooled 1100 engine and put it in a retro roadster, like they did back with the Sports Classic.

The GT was also a great riding bike, and really if it would have been on the market at the same time it would have been a perfect competitor to the CB1100. But that gap at the rear fender.... just no!

I mentioned it in an earlier post, I am convinced that next year we will see the CB650 being modified to look like the neo-retro CB1000R, and it can then actually become something pretty interesting.
 
m in sc_imp said:
Yes indeed. having actually owned both, the duc is a much meaner looking bike, not nearly as stodgy or stuffy as the cb is. More business, and the tail never bothered me. . in the pics you show, they look stubby, which is funny, they are not quite like that in real life. they do look terrible with the tail off, that i can assure you.

I sold mine because i had it for 8+ years, and figured id get out while the market was still strong, made quite a wad on it upon sale, which was nice, especially as i didn't buy it as an investment. Dead reliable, more comfortable that you'd think, and was quite fast with the termis and the fat duc ecu. I did a few 5+ hour rides on it.

I can say though, you are the -only - person i've ever ran across that didn't like the way they looked.
Click to expand...
Count me in too. I have never liked the overall stying of Ducati’s. Something about the L-twin, frame geometry, and overall package that just looks off to me. UJMs and British twins are more my cup of tea.
 
Most Ducati's I find the looks of okay I suppose (would never own one though), The Sport 1000 is an exception to likeable looks for me, angled pudgy tank, angled overstuffed seat, too much space between rear tire and fender. I thought aesthetically it was a disaster.
 
It’s a bit ironic that I’m generally quite positive when it comes to the visual appeal of Ducati’s overall. While Honda was way ahead of the game with the Hawk GT, I loved Ducati’s initial execution of the Monster. I had never seen one before when I first layed eyes on one while traveling in Europe. That remained one of the highlights of the trip, and it was a great trip.

I just don’t think Ducati did a good design job of bridging the gap between the old and the new with the Sport Classic for many of the reasons mentioned above by myself and others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Well m in sc, having only owned two street bikes I suppose that I've missed out on owning all kinds of wonderful motorcycles, lol. But I don't really tend to look at it that way as I've got a family and all kinds of other interests in addition to motorcycling that consume my time and money. Sure, there are definitely a few other bikes that I would like to own, but I doubt I will.

The important thing is that you had an interest in the Sport Classic and went on to own one. Regardless of how I view the bike, I think that story is pretty cool. There are all kinds of bikes that I'm not all that amped up about, but I can appreciate the fact that there are others who are. At the end of any given day, if we both managed to have gone for a ride at some point or another then that's one thing that you and I have in common that I don't have in common with the majority of other people in the world. I feel like that realization is one of the things that makes this forum great.

I suppose my opinions regarding the Sport Classic as well as those of some of the others here really aren't incredibly surprising considering that this is the CB1100 forum as you've noted. I have no doubt that many others would consider the Sport Classic to be a superior motorcycle. I just don't happen to think that it's better for me personally. The same would apply to any number of amazing motorcycles that are out there.

By the way, I likely missed it elsewhere as I've been a bit out of commission this year, but what vintage bikes do you own (or have owned)?
 
That is truly quite a lovely collection of bikes. I really REALLY like the 1970 Yamaha HS1.

Guth, great comments regarding individual taste and preference. It's important to note that nobody here is criticizing others for their taste in bikes, even when those tastes differ from their own. I have full respect for other's preferences, though I may not always understand or appreciate their perspective. If I'm presented with an opportunity to share my opinion, I'll usually be honest and try to keep my views objective. At the end of the day, as long as we like what we like and respect others for what they like and dislike, the world is a good place.

With respect to the Ducati Sport Classic discussion, I would imagine many here have torrid love affairs with their motorcycles. I know I do. When I go out to the garage, I love to stare and marvel at the styling and form of my bikes. I don't view their merits from a performance standpoint -- I really don't need any more performance that what I can get from a 250 streetbike. But the machines have a sentimental value and evoke a sense of style, freedom, and adventure that I can't get from a car. Plus, they make me feel like a thirteen year-old kid again. So, if I love the way a bike looks, I'll tend to overlook its performance shortfalls. Others have different priorities, which I get and fully respect. But that's not where my views are rooted.

Today's bikes have been refined to a performance spec that we could have only dreamed of ten years ago. But today's styling leaves me dead cold. There's no emotional attraction or appeal to this old rider. But when something like a CB1100 comes along, suddenly I'm in love. Or that yellow HS1 Yamaha. It really pulls on my heart strings!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

V
 CB1100: a beautiful love letter to the old CB750
Replies
16
Views
2K
Gone in 60
Gone in 60
G
NC750XD: Initial review ...
3 4 5
Replies
90
Views
8K
GoldOxide_imp
G
Back
Top