Fairwell to Air-cooled engines?

A couple points:
Tooling wears out with use; I'd like to know how many times Yamaha has had to redo the tooling for the SR-400. A second question; how long of a production run can you get out of your typical tooling?

Emissions is not just a US thing, the Euro Zone has very strict regs and they are getting stricter. Even China has seen the light and is starting the light and enforce standards they had on the books but have over looked so they could fire up their economy. At some point the whole world will be on the same page - if we live long enough and if the oil supply lasts that long.

Right now a lawn mower engine pollutes more in one typical mowing than a modern car does going from Phoenix to Flagstaff - about 120 miles.
 
Writer doesn't have a clue. Suzuki Boulevards are water cooled, not air cooled, I know because I owned one. Engineering a NEW large displacement air cooled takes a bit more work for sure, after owning the CB for little more than a month I can tell you it is pretty quiet, again something that the author is wrong about. That article is just a summation of a person's bias, not based on fact.
 
Well the water jacket does attenuate sound and it is used to control the over all acoustic signature of a machine (Europe has done wonders with diesel motors in this regard) so I'd give him a pass on that one. I missed where he said the Boulevards are air cooled; I read a different bike (checked the article again and he used the blanket term Boulevard and I'm pretty sure he was talking about the S-40 - clear as mud :P ).

I really can't ride my Griso without ear plugs (it also has an oil cooler with special attention on oil flow in the heads); she is just a loud bike. The Honda CB is much quieter and for in town riding ear plugs could be optional. I've done it, it's OK but I still prefer using them. To be fair to the Griso; she is tuned to be louder at the pipe and I think the valve train, using screw adjustment, is naturally louder than the shim under bucket affair. The Griso creates a lot of noise just from the heads alone.

The CB1100 is liquid cooled (oil is circulated around the sparkplugs) so our motors are a bit of a hybrid when it comes to cooling. Now it would be very interesting to compare our CB1100 to the water cooled CB1300 or the older 919 (I rode one once, impressive motor and quiet).
I'll add that I wish my XR650L had an oil cooled head. That sucker runs too hot. Especially in Phoenix.
 
I too think the noise argument is not really one. Ultimately it is possible to make a water cooled engine quieter than an air cooled one, but there are so many other things that impact this aspect. I remember my Ducati ST2, which was a water cooled 944cc engine, as being mechanically very noisy. The desmo valve system and especially the dry clutch made quite a racket, and a friend used to refer to it as the stone crusher. At the end of the day, it will always be the exhaust pipes, or lack thereof, that make the most noise on a bike.

The CB11? By far the most silent bike I have ever owned...
 
Yea stand next to a Duc with a dry clutch and you want to yell to the owner " quick turn it off, something's wrong with your bike" lol
 
Dry clutches are an acquired taste. I had one on the Quota. Never got used to it. But a lot of guys I ride with love the sound. The probably like crying babies too. :P
 
There was a good discussion on the Honda "Designer's Talk" pages about their decision to build the CB air-cooled. They felt it had to be if it were going to be the bike they wanted it to be. IIRC, it's the first air-cooled bike they've built in 20 years.

Since this can of worms is open, how about dragging out the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke debate?
 
Rboe_imp said:
Dry clutches are an acquired taste. I had one on the Quota. Never got used to it. But a lot of guys I ride with love the sound. The probably like crying babies too. :P
Click to expand...

Well, that had me laughing uncontrollably, lol .
 
The Spaceman_imp said:
There was a good discussion on the Honda "Designer's Talk" pages about their decision to build the CB air-cooled. They felt it had to be if it were going to be the bike they wanted it to be. IIRC, it's the first air-cooled bike they've built in 20 years.

Since this can of worms is open, how about dragging out the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke debate?
Click to expand...
The Lotus 2 stroke research engine might be a path to some future with that kind of engine

http://www.lotuscars.com/gb/engineering/case-study-omnivore-research-engine
 
gossman_imp said:
Writer doesn't have a clue. Suzuki Boulevards are water cooled, not air cooled, I know because I owned one. Engineering a NEW large displacement air cooled takes a bit more work for sure, after owning the CB for little more than a month I can tell you it is pretty quiet, again something that the author is wrong about. That article is just a summation of a person's bias, not based on fact.
Click to expand...
I think he was referring to the 650 single S40 Boulevard, or LS650/Savage. A lot of these older air-cooled designs are likely grandfathered in, including the old XR650L and DR650S dual sports. Don't know how a lot of the Chinese-motored smaller bikes can get in legally though.
 
The CB is by no means noisy. I agree, a very quite bike, if not reved high. The EFI Bullet creates a much more destinctive sound as a one cylinder. Also the W800 after having lost the inlets of the exhaust pipes without my help, they rusted and get lost all of sudden, creates a more recognizeable sound with new inlets build by a forum member of the W-Forum in Germany. A little bit in the direction of old british paralleltwins. Nice to listen to. Kawasaki uses some damping material in different motorcovers to cut down engine noise though.

Do more think that ever more restricted emission laws will put an end to aircooled engines in the upcoming future. Maybe watercooled ones are better in overcoming the harder getting emission values but don't look as good. Not half the way.

But I don't worry about it. Once you've registered a motorbike and are allowed to ride it in the public, it is allowed to drive there. The German word for it is "Bestandsschutz", don't know the american one. The only thing that can change with time is, you're not allowed to ride everywhere with your bike(s), something that right started with diesel cars in some cities over here. Very strange and its just the beginning. Other countries in Europe are a step further like France. If your bike does not fulfill certain emission norms you have to stay out of town. Very nice perspectives for the future...

Wisedrum
 
When the neighbours fire up their [air-cooled] gasoline powered snow throwers on a clean, quiet, crisp, and frigid cold winter morning, their unprocessed exhaust particulate fills the air. It is nauseating, and reminds me how we even got out of the 60s and 70s and before that. Add air-cooled lawnmowers and two-stroke weed whackers - their is a lot of air-cooled things to tackle before penalizing modern air-cooled motorcycles.
 
I've got a relatively new four-stroke Honda snowblower. All stock. It has no throttle control (always WFO) and no muffler to speak of. You'd never expect 160cc to be so loud!
 
Yea stand next to a Duc with a dry clutch and you want to yell to the owner " quick turn it off, something's wrong with your bike.
I resemble that remark! I've got a Moto Guzzi Stornello and it does make a bit of a racket while idling, but it's a nice racket. It's all part of the experience.
t.
 
I think the oil cooling is mainly for the top end. CB is still a true air-cooled piece of engineering art.

RE dry clutch: Not a very attractive sound for a casual riding experience.
 
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