Ethanol-free gas question

[Lord Popgun]

Red Mist,

Ethanol caused massive problems in the marine world and still does. And fuel problems are not covered under warranty.

 

[Red Mist_imp]

Red Mist,

Ethanol caused massive problems in the marine world and still does. And fuel problems are not covered under warranty.

So I have heard. And we don't want it in our avgas either, do we? But we're talking ordinary roadgoing motorcycles and cars. In the last 20 years I've owned quite a few cars and motorcycles and put on a lot of miles. Not one single fuel system problem. And I live in an area where E10 is common.

Not trying to make a statement about politics, just automotive design.

A lot people don't know it, but we are using fully 1/2 of all our corn supply for ethanol. It has drastically reduced the amount of corn we can export to developing nations -- and has, in some cases, caused food shortages and even famine in some of those countries. The fuel issues are one thing, but when enviro wackjobs are so hell-bent on 'saving the planet' (even though it's been proven that ethanol does no such thing) that humans then end up suffering due to 'good intentions,' I get just plain angry. The thing that gets me is there's never any repercussions for these wackos, it seems as if they just get a pass, because, wait for it...they're 'saving the planet.'

Anyways, sorry everyone, I don't want to turn this into an off-topic rant fest, but I think most folks aren't really that aware of some of the backstory on ethanol.

Hey Guth, maybe we need to create an off-topic section for stuff like this? Probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Y'all could send me there when I misbehave.

90 per cent of this site is off-topic. The CB1100 is a bland motorcycle and there isn't much to do to it other than ride it. So every thread rambles off into politics or disagreements over octane, ethanol, motor oil, how to put the bike on the centerstand, the weather...:rofl:

 

[Lord Popgun]

Red Mist,

I agree completely with you. Didn't mean to sound argumentative. Like ferret says, its hard to convey things on the internet sometimes.

I have never had a problem with ethanol in my car, truck, lawn mower or anything else motorized except marine stuff.

 

[Tripod_imp]

Being a farmer, I don't mind the government subsidizing ethanol production... It get's the corn price up!! :angel: Yes, I know, there are many downsides. Just wanted to give an example that not everyone is against ethanol...

(of course, I use pure gas in all my vintage cars, motorcycles, scooters, and also all my newer small engines, chainsaws, leaf blowers, etc.)

 

[flynrider]

Being a farmer, I don't mind the government subsidizing ethanol production... It get's the corn price up!! :angel: Yes, I know, there are many downsides. Just wanted to give an example that not everyone is against ethanol...

(of course, I use pure gas in all my vintage cars, motorcycles, scooters, and also all my newer small engines, chainsaws, leaf blowers, etc.)

The majority of problems crop up with fuel system components that weren't designed to deal with ethanol (usually found in older vehicles). E10 has been (EPA) mandated in my area for about 15 yrs. When it first showed up it caused problems with my '69 ragtop Mercury and my '59 Cessna. Never had an issue using it in modern vehicles that are designed to handle it.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Tripod,

My uncle (and now his son) was a dairy farmer in Indiana. I remember when I was a kid that he had a LOT of cows and a LOT of land growing corn. Is that what cows eat? Is it better to just sell the corn with prices up, or sell milk at a higher price. Or do farmers do both?

How does that work?

Note: I learned that pigs don't like to be trifled with by little boys...

 

[Red Mist_imp]

Tripod,

My uncle (and now his son) was a dairy farmer in Indiana. I remember when I was a kid that he had a LOT of cows and a LOT of land growing corn. Is that what cows eat? Is it better to just sell the corn with prices up, or sell milk at a higher price. Or do farmers do both?

How does that work?

Note: I learned that pigs don't like to be trifled with by little boys...

Cows generally eat grass or alfalfa, sometimes they receive supplements in the form of pellets, salt/mineral licks, and so on. Farmers generally grow corn as part of a range of crops. We grew corn, wheat, soybeans, sorghum, and hay (baled for cattle feed during the winter). When beef cattle or cows are penned up and can't forage freely, then they usually will get quite a bit of baled alfalfa and supplements.

Beef cattle will often get an exclusive diet of high-calorie, high-nutrition feed when they are on the feedlot just prior to being slaughtered.

Corn may figure in to some extent but it's not a major staple for cattle. It's mostly for people!

Pigs can be damn dangerous at times, especially a mama.

 

[Cormanus]

Where I come from, it's always dangerous to mess with pigs.

 

[Tripod_imp]

We are just grain farmers and have been for many, many years. However, we used to raise cattle and hogs. Hogs are by far my favorite farm animal. Smart, clean, personable. But, yes, they can be extremely dangerous, especially a mother with babies...

Apologies to the OP. This may be the most derailed thread in the history of this forum!!

 

[CA200_imp]

Up here at times in the Milwaukee area because of air pollution they make them sell oxygenated fuel so when you add that to Ethanol
it does some pretty bad things that sit with fuel in them.

 

[Red Mist_imp]

Where I come from, it's always dangerous to mess with pigs.

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature.

We are just grain farmers and have been for many, many years. However, we used to raise cattle and hogs. Hogs are by far my favorite farm animal. Smart, clean, personable. But, yes, they can be extremely dangerous, especially a mother with babies...

Apologies to the OP. This may be the most derailed thread in the history of this forum!!

This forum was derailed the day after it was launched.:rofl:
That was us, too, hogs, cattle, grains...and hogs are way smarter than cattle. We had a pet "pig", smarter'n any dawg we ever had. She made some real good bacon and side pork when she got big enough, too.

Almost felt like cannibalism but not quite.

(When it's a farm animal, its' "hog" but when it's a pet, it's "pig").

 

[Lord Popgun]

Was his name Arnold?

 

[Cormanus]

Where I come from, it's always dangerous to mess with pigs.

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature.

We are just grain farmers and have been for many, many years. However, we used to raise cattle and hogs. Hogs are by far my favorite farm animal. Smart, clean, personable. But, yes, they can be extremely dangerous, especially a mother with babies...

Apologies to the OP. This may be the most derailed thread in the history of this forum!!

This forum was derailed the day after it was launched.:rofl:
That was us, too, hogs, cattle, grains...and hogs are way smarter than cattle. We had a pet "pig", smarter'n any dawg we ever had. She made some real good bacon and side pork when she got big enough, too.

Almost felt like cannibalism but not quite.

(When it's a farm animal, its' "hog" but when it's a pet, it's "pig").

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature. I should've used an emoticon or something that indicated I was making a bad joke. "Pig" has a variety of meanings in Australia, including "messy vulgar uncouth creature." Some messy, vulgar, uncouth creatures (pigs) refer to those worthy ladies and gentlemen charged with enforcing the law as "pigs". Hence my statement that it's dangerous to mess with 'em.

As the thread is completely off the rails, I might as well pursue a linguistic curiosity: some motorcycling ladies and gentlemen ride "hogs". Presumably, when they offend against the law, they are pursued by "pigs", some caged, some not. One side or the other is probably being cheered on by other "pigs" who neither ride hogs nor enforce laws.

Meanwhile other pigs and hogs go quietly about their contemplative business eating and producing ethanol until age or some other factor catches up with them and they are killed, processed and devoured, sometimes by pigs of the first-mentioned variety.

Is there something circular about all this?

 

[flynrider]

Up here at times in the Milwaukee area because of air pollution they make them sell oxygenated fuel so when you add that to Ethanol
it does some pretty bad things that sit with fuel in them.

Just an FYI, the ethanol is what makes the fuel "oxygenated". Years ago oxygenated fuels used to be gas mixed with 10% of an ether compound (MTBE) or ethanol. Since MTBE was banned a decade or so ago, the only oxygenate used is ethanol.

We have the same EPA oxygenate requirement here in Phoenix for the winter months, so the only thing available is E10.

 

[Red Mist_imp]

Was his name Arnold?

Yes, in fact her name was Arnold. Green Acres and all that.

Where I come from, it's always dangerous to mess with pigs.

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature.

We are just grain farmers and have been for many, many years. However, we used to raise cattle and hogs. Hogs are by far my favorite farm animal. Smart, clean, personable. But, yes, they can be extremely dangerous, especially a mother with babies...

Apologies to the OP. This may be the most derailed thread in the history of this forum!!

This forum was derailed the day after it was launched.:rofl:
That was us, too, hogs, cattle, grains...and hogs are way smarter than cattle. We had a pet "pig", smarter'n any dawg we ever had. She made some real good bacon and side pork when she got big enough, too.

Almost felt like cannibalism but not quite.

(When it's a farm animal, its' "hog" but when it's a pet, it's "pig").

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature. I should've used an emoticon or something that indicated I was making a bad joke. "Pig" has a variety of meanings in Australia, including "messy vulgar uncouth creature." Some messy, vulgar, uncouth creatures (pigs) refer to those worthy ladies and gentlemen charged with enforcing the law as "pigs". Hence my statement that it's dangerous to mess with 'em.

As the thread is completely off the rails, I might as well pursue a linguistic curiosity: some motorcycling ladies and gentlemen ride "hogs". Presumably, when they offend against the law, they are pursued by "pigs", some caged, some not. One side or the other is probably being cheered on by other "pigs" who neither ride hogs nor enforce laws.

Meanwhile other pigs and hogs go quietly about their contemplative business eating and producing ethanol until age or some other factor catches up with them and they are killed, processed and devoured, sometimes by pigs of the first-mentioned variety.

Is there something circular about all this?

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature. I should've used an emoticon or something that indicated I was making a bad joke. "Pig" has a variety of meanings in Australia, including "messy vulgar uncouth creature."

Is there something circular about all this? I was thinking more along the lines of the usage in "Swinging On a Star" (Bing Crosby).

 

[Cormanus]

Was his name Arnold?

Yes, in fact her name was Arnold. Green Acres and all that.

Where I come from, it's always dangerous to mess with pigs.

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature.

We are just grain farmers and have been for many, many years. However, we used to raise cattle and hogs. Hogs are by far my favorite farm animal. Smart, clean, personable. But, yes, they can be extremely dangerous, especially a mother with babies...

Apologies to the OP. This may be the most derailed thread in the history of this forum!!

This forum was derailed the day after it was launched.:rofl:
That was us, too, hogs, cattle, grains...and hogs are way smarter than cattle. We had a pet "pig", smarter'n any dawg we ever had. She made some real good bacon and side pork when she got big enough, too.

Almost felt like cannibalism but not quite.

(When it's a farm animal, its' "hog" but when it's a pet, it's "pig").

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature. I should've used an emoticon or something that indicated I was making a bad joke. "Pig" has a variety of meanings in Australia, including "messy vulgar uncouth creature." Some messy, vulgar, uncouth creatures (pigs) refer to those worthy ladies and gentlemen charged with enforcing the law as "pigs". Hence my statement that it's dangerous to mess with 'em.

As the thread is completely off the rails, I might as well pursue a linguistic curiosity: some motorcycling ladies and gentlemen ride "hogs". Presumably, when they offend against the law, they are pursued by "pigs", some caged, some not. One side or the other is probably being cheered on by other "pigs" who neither ride hogs nor enforce laws.

Meanwhile other pigs and hogs go quietly about their contemplative business eating and producing ethanol until age or some other factor catches up with them and they are killed, processed and devoured, sometimes by pigs of the first-mentioned variety.

Is there something circular about all this?

Actually we do call 'em hogs. "Pig" is more of an epithet for any messy vulgar uncouth creature. I should've used an emoticon or something that indicated I was making a bad joke. "Pig" has a variety of meanings in Australia, including "messy vulgar uncouth creature."

Is there something circular about all this? I was thinking more along the lines of the usage in "Swinging On a Star" (Bing Crosby).

Thanks for the pointer to Breckenridge Elkins. I'm looking forward to reading him.