Disappointing Birthday Present

[flynrider]

On April 5th, 2013 I swung my leg over my CB1100 and put the first mile on the odometer.

Today I was running errands around town and stopped at the post office to mail a letter. When I came out I hit the starter button, the engine slowly made about a half turn and stopped. Further attempts got similar results. I could tell voltage was low because when I let go of the button, the tach and speedo would go through their full sweep (as if I had just turned the key on). This had all the earmarks of a dead battery.

To make a long story short, lots of huffing and puffing ensued while I attempted to push start the bike with the side stand down (Doh!). I eventually figured out my goof and the bike started up nicely in second gear with the side stand up.

When I got home, I did some diagnostics and now I'm thoroughly stumped. I let the bike sit for about 1/2 hour (longer than I'd been in the post office). When I went back out I attached a multimeter to the battery and it showed 12.6V, so I turned on the key. The headlight was bright, so I hit the starter and she fired right up. I checked the charging system and it was showing a healthy 14.0 - 14.1 volts at 5,000 rpm. Battery connections were tight. Basically, everything looked good. I'm stumped.

Because of the extreme heat here, lead acid batteries typically last around 3 years on my bikes. I had higher hopes for the stock sealed battery, but maybe not. I suppose the next step will be a load test on the battery (when I get my load tester back from my neighbor). Any other ideas?

 

[the Ferret]

Well everything points to the battery. I would charge it up and do a load test. I've heard that heat in AZ does terrible things to batteries. Some guys say 1 1/2 to 2 years for a car battery?

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

At the post office did you use the kill switch and leave the ignition (and lights) ON? It's been done before (once by me, for instance). A push start and twelve months down the track my four year old battery is still good.

Cheers

 

[Elipten_imp]

Heat kills batteries, not cold. You got some hot wired accessory, you might have left on draining the battery. I hate that side stand switch. On my old BMW when you pull the clutch it retracts the side stand I the rider has not previously done so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[flynrider]

At the post office did you use the kill switch and leave the ignition (and lights) ON? It's been done before (once by me, for instance). A push start and twelve months down the track my four year old battery is still good.

Cheers

Nope. Haven't ever used the kill switch and verified it was on. The key was in my pocket, so the bike definitely wasn't on for the few minutes. I spent in the post office.

Heat kills batteries, not cold. You got some hot wired accessory, you might have left on draining the battery. I hate that side stand switch. On my old BMW when you pull the clutch it retracts the side stand I the rider has not previously done so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No electrical accessories have been added. Electrically, it's stock.

I'm going to let it sit overnight and see what happens in the morning.

 

[Cormanus]

Heat kills batteries, not cold. You got some hot wired accessory, you might have left on draining the battery. I hate that side stand switch. On my old BMW when you pull the clutch it retracts the side stand I the rider has not previously done so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So, if one were to wander along pulling in the clutches of parked Beemers, they'd drop off the side stand?

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

Didn't think you would have, but the old saying that the obvious is often the solution is a start in diagnostics.

When you hit the starter was the bike in gear with the side stand up? If so maybe a sticky, or dirty, side stand switch (intermittent).

Cheers

 

[rboe]

I suspect the battery too. Now it has been brought to my attention that new batteries are given a short initial charge then sent on it's way. But they need a good over night full charge or they don't last. Not sure if a proper charge would help now. But hey. Seems to have worked on my old Griso battery (but I already picked up a replacement so...... ).

Then there are new Lithium batteries that are very light, and um, expensive. Seem to be much less affected by the heat though.

 

[emptysea]

I don't think the engine would crank at all if it was a kill switch or side stand issue. I think doing a load test would be the right next step as I think it's a battery issue. So the only advice I really have is not to lend tools to neighbors. LOL

Report back and what you find.

 

[flynrider]

Didn't think you would have, but the old saying that the obvious is often the solution is a start in diagnostics.

When you hit the starter was the bike in gear with the side stand up? If so maybe a sticky, or dirty, side stand switch (intermittent).

Cheers

Exactly. I'm trolling for the obvious idea that I may have overlooked. I'm suspicious for two reasons. 1) This sealed battery seems to have failed much earlier than most of the cheapo lead/acid batteries I've had. 2) Once I got home, everything seemed perfectly normal.

I used my normal starting procedure. Bike in neutral, side stand up. Since the engine actually attempted to turn over, that would seem to rule out the side stand switch. The sweep of the gauges when the button was released would seem to indicate a lack of voltage while the button was depressed.

 

[Pterodactyl_imp]

I guees, but cannot be sure, we are using the same OEM battery. Mine is over four years old, has been flattened twice and had it's share of very hot temperatures. I tested it recently and it's good. On the other hand the bike rarely sits without use for too long. If it is your battery then, be patient, it will fail again. Don't take a long solo ride out into the desert

Cheers

 

[White Dog_imp]

Will the starter turn over when the speedo and tac are doing the sweep? I've never tried, just curious to know.

 

[flynrider]

I swap back and forth pretty evenly between the CB750 and the CB11, so the bike doesn't sit for more that 2 days at a time. As for heat, from May to October, we get temps in excess of 100 degrees (37.8C) almost every day. Traditionally, batteries in this region have significantly shorter lives than more temperate climates, particularly small motorcycle batteries.

Quote:Will the starter turn over when the speedo and tac are doing the sweep? I've never tried, just curious to know.
I've done this by accident a couple of times. Yes, the starter will turn over and the bike will start and rev up to a couple thousand rpm. It goes back to normal once the sweep is done. I believe the gauge sweep indicates that the computers and sensors are booting up. Since making my few goofs, I now turn the key and wait patiently for the sweep to complete. Funny thing is, now when I'm riding the old CB750 I turn the key and sit there waiting for something to happen

Quote: Rboe said :Then there are new Lithium batteries that are very light, and um, expensive. Smile Seem to be much less affected by the heat though.
In anticipation of having to go battery shopping, I was looking at the Li replacement types. They seem to be getting great reviews all around the Internet and their weak point seems to be cold instead of heat. As a bonus, the Li replacements are 5.7 lbs. lighter than the stock AGM battery (2.3 lbs. vs. 8 lbs.).

 

[Elipten_imp]

Hard to pull against the 550lbs weight on the side stand. Clutch cable would fail first.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Guth_imp]

I hope you're able to find the answer without too much trouble.

Thanks for the reminder — today was the 2 year anniversary of taking delivery of my CB1100 as well.

 

[Cormanus]

Many happy returns, both of you.

 

[flynrider]

It's definitely the battery. I went out to the garage late last night and checked the voltage on the battery. It was down to 12.4V, not a good sign. I turned the key and the light looked bright, so I hit the starter and it started right up. Being suspicious, I immediately killed the engine by cycling the kill switch and tried to start it a second time. No go. It behaved just like it had at the post office. Bottom line, this particular failure mode gives you absolutely no clue that it's about to die. The start previous to the failure seemed normal in every respect (i.e. no slow cranking or dim lights).

When I pulled out the battery, I was stunned by how small it is. It's only about half the size of the battery in my CB750.

In looking at replacements I saw prices ranging from $170 (Yuasa) to $70 (name i never heard of) delivered for the AGM battery.

The most popular lithium ion variant is $99 delivered. Pros are that it's 5.7 lbs. lighter, not as heat sensitive, more cranking amps (290 vs. 220) and has a built in capacity gauge and tester (a big plus). Cons are that I have zero experience with these types, so I'm relying on a few hundred Internet reviews going back about 7 years.

Given my experience with the small AGM stock battery (not good), I've decided to try out the lithium ion. Ordered it this morning and it should be here by Thursday. At the very least, with it's built in gauge, this battery will tell me if it's dying an early death.

 

[the Ferret]

These AGMs seem to be like that. They give up with no warning. Happened on my ST and on my son's FZ-1, however we usually get 3-5 years or more out of one here. My ST battery went from 06-13, so 7 years. My wife's 09 scooter is still running the original battery (5 years this month) but I am thinking about replacing it this year just because.

Will be interesting to see how the lithium battery works out for you. I have read they require special chargers, but can't verify that.

Funny, with that battery you will be saving a lot more weight than switching from a stock muffler to a Staintune.

 

[redbirds_imp]

Many of the fellows on the Triumph Tiger 1050 forum switched to the lithium batteries. Battery failure was rather common on the Tiger because Triumph chose a 12 amphr battery for stock where a 14 would have been better. I remember that those who switched to lithium were happy with their choice especially since the battery box on the Triumph was a bit tight and required the battery resting on it's side.

 

[flynrider]

These AGMs seem to be like that. They give up with no warning. Happened on my ST and on my son's FZ-1, however we usually get 3-5 years or more out of one here. My ST battery went from 06-13, so 7 years. My wife's 09 scooter is still running the original battery (5 years this month) but I am thinking about replacing it this year just because.

Will be interesting to see how the lithium battery works out for you. I have read they require special chargers, but can't verify that.

Funny, with that battery you will be saving a lot more weight than switching from a stock muffler to a Staintune.

A regular charger with auto shutoff will work fine, as long as it doesn't have a desulfating mode enabled. Plain chargers without auto shutoff will work too, but you need to monitor it closely to prevent overcharging.

I'm not too worried about chargers, since I'll be riding about every other day. The Li types are more sensitive to low charge and shouldn't be used if the charge falls below 50% of capacity. If in doubt the there's a little gadget on top that displays the charge remaining.