Design Disadvantages of the CB1100

[the Ferret]

Color me pessimistic, but I don't see you (Chris) being happy with a CB 1100 . Just a feeling. You come in being an acknowledged " card carrying Honda Hater" (see I did read every word of your valve adjustment procedure). You say you want to trade in an EX500 which is rather a milquetoast motorcycle ( but maybe a perfectly fine motorcycle, dont know, never ridden one) but you keep comparing the CB to your "mighty ZX9R " .

The CB is not going to compare to the ZX9. It was never designed to. The CB is designed specifically for the "smile on your face/sunny day sentimentality ". That is what the motorcycle is all about. Honda has built other models for other purposes with lighter stronger frames, sharper handling, physically smaller but more potent motors like the CBR1100XX Blackbird, or CBR1100RR but this bike was built rather heavy, rather slow, not very technically advanced, but in a style designed to appeal to those who impressed enough to own the original inline 4 Hondas, or those who were too young but wanted too. There are what some would observe as flaws in this motorcycle. Plastic used in the tail light assembly, engine covers, and headlight lens. A relatively short service span for valve adjustments, probably ball bearings in the steering head, and probably plastic or resin swing arm bushings if I were guessing. Steel frame, 8500 rpm redline, narrow tires and rims, and speed limited to 112 mph. Barely adjustable built to a price point suspension. Its got a lousy tool kit. It's heavy, it's slow and it costs a lot of money.

It's great that your ZX9 will "still hit an actual 100 mph in first gear" or that "it has a brutal hit at 9000 that still scares you on public highways", but the CB is never going to compete with that. Was never intended to. You seem to be hung up on a performance standard that the CB is never going to match.

There are any number of motorcycles that would seem to me to be more appealing to you... The Kawasaki Versys or 650 Ninja, the Suzuki SV 650 or maybe the new Yamaha FZ-09. Plus Honda makes some very nice, if not very exciting, NC 700 series of bikes for thousands less that would compare more directly to your current dog sled.

I'm confused, you don't seem old enough to want a CB for nostalgic reasons, you admittedly don't like Hondas, you obviously like to explore the outer limits of speed and handling on public highways, you seem bright and intelligent, and you are obviously mechanically gifted... Why are you even considering a CB 1100?

 

[redbirds_imp]

I'm in agreement with Ferret on this. I bought the CB1100 because it has the character that fits my riding style. What are considered shortcomings by some (usually younger riders) are virtues to me. Having owned many bikes with shim under bucket adjusters, in my experience they seldom need adjustment in a bike that is not ridden hard, read bounced off the rev limiter at every opportunity. And checking clearances on the CB looks to be quite simple. When I started riding in the 60's a motorcycle with over 80HP would be thought too powerful for mere mortals to ride. The CB1100 has far more power and speed potential than can be used legally on any public road and very few riders have the skills to ride this bike at it's full potential.

I would suggest a Triumph Speed Triple or the new Yamaha FZ-09. The Yamaha has so much potential and it's low entry price leaves much room for performance enhancements and a good bike for you Chris with your mechanical talents and intelligence.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide. :beerchug:

 

[Dakota_imp]

I thought that this would be an interesting thread titled "design..." yet there is not one bit of discussion on the actual bike engineering design. Three pages of nothing but meandering anecdotal blah blah blah.

 

[the Ferret]

Sorry Dakota, answered the best I could seeing as how I am not an engineer by trade. I talked about wheels, frame, suspension, steering head, swing arm, horsepower, torque, inherent strength, weaknesses and smoothness of an I-4 engine, valve layout, materials used ......

Others spoke to valve and cam timing

This is a very common platform that has been around for 45 years. The only trick thing Honda did with this bike is the thin cooling fins which are supposed to make a tinking sound when cooling down, and putting oil passages around the spark plugs to cool that area of the head. Other than that this bike was pretty much built in 1969, or at least 1979 with the first dohc motors.

Maybe you would like to start us off with some design engineering disadvantages advice that would help Chris.

 

[Ack-CB11_imp]

I bought it for looks alone, then changed it completely..........Twice?

 

[Inline4_imp]

I bought it for looks alone, then changed it completely..........Twice?

I LOVE IT, too!!!!! :clap: :biker:

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

Here's my list of design failings of the CB:

1. It's air-cooled. What were they thinking? It's so much easier to control engine heat, and thus provide more power for comparable displacements, with water-cooling.

2. There's no fairing. Riders are exposed to the elements, including wind-blast, rain, and cold. A large, modern fairing would not only resolve those issues, but would also provide a location to install features such as "Infotainment" systems, GPS, satellite TV, etc.

3. No luggage. Where the heck are you supposed to put your hair dryer if you take a road trip? A large top case and side-bags would go a long way here.

4. Chain drive. Are you kidding me? A shaft drive would be quieter, cleaner, and virtually zero maintenance. CB buyers are stuck with cleaning and lubricating chains for the life of the motorcycle.

5. I-4 engine layout. This engine design is simply outdated. A V-4 or horizontally opposed 6 cylinder engine would produce more power and fewer vibrations.

6. Single headlight. Two headlights would provide better visibility for both the rider and surrounding traffic. Shame on Honda for not investing a few dollars more here.

 

[Deanohh_imp]

I thought that this would be an interesting thread titled "design..." yet there is not one bit of discussion on the actual bike engineering design. Three pages of nothing but meandering anecdotal blah blah blah.

The thread title probably could have been better. Why don't you start a discussion on what you want to discuss?

 

[redbirds_imp]

Here's my list of design failings of the CB:

1. It's air-cooled. What were they thinking? It's so much easier to control engine heat, and thus provide more power for comparable displacements, with water-cooling.

2. There's no fairing. Riders are exposed to the elements, including wind-blast, rain, and cold. A large, modern fairing would not only resolve those issues, but would also provide a location to install features such as "Infotainment" systems, GPS, satellite TV, etc.

3. No luggage. Where the heck are you supposed to put your hair dryer if you take a road trip? A large top case and side-bags would go a long way here.

4. Chain drive. Are you kidding me? A shaft drive would be quieter, cleaner, and virtually zero maintenance. CB buyers are stuck with cleaning and lubricating chains for the life of the motorcycle.

5. I-4 engine layout. This engine design is simply outdated. A V-4 or horizontally opposed 6 cylinder engine would produce more power and fewer vibrations.

6. Single headlight. Two headlights would provide better visibility for both the rider and surrounding traffic. Shame on Honda for not investing a few dollars more here.

 

[Deanohh_imp]

I never get a tinking sound when I shut it off. If that's a design objective, their engineering fell short.

 

[the Ferret]

I never get a tinking sound when I shut it off. If that's a design objective, their engineering fell short.

Yea, me either. ...but that's what the engineer's said when it was introduced. Maybe we don't ride them hard enough?

 

[Aussie_imp]

I don't frequent this forum to discuss design disadvantages and pick faults with the bike. You either 'get' the bike or you don't. Those that don't have a veritable cornucopia of other bikes choices to make.

I love this You Tube clip; I wish that was me on the bike. I've driven that road in NZ as well so I can appreciate it.

Read what the designers say:

Honda Motor Co.,Ltd.｜Honda Global Corporate Website

The End. :hello:

Let's get back to the positive stuff!

I never get a tinking sound when I shut it off. If that's a design objective, their engineering fell short.

Yea, me either. ...but that's what the engineer's said when it was introduced. Maybe we don't ride them hard enough?

Yea, me either. ...but that's what the engineer's said when it was introduced. Maybe we don't ride them hard enough?
I love the tink! You guys really don't hear it?

 

[SanPete_imp]

I never get a tinking sound when I shut it off. If that's a design objective, their engineering fell short.

I hear it. After I close the garage door and while undressing the riding gear. It's a beautiful thing.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk now Free

 

[the Ferret]

No I don't hear it, but ask my wife I can't hear half of what they say on tv or the movies either, and I often mistranslate what my wife, kids and grandkids say when they talk. When I was real young I used " like" every other word..now that I'm real old I use " what?"

Too many loud motorcycles and guns in my past

 

[mininsx_imp]

Here's my list of design failings of the CB:

1. It's air-cooled. What were they thinking? It's so much easier to control engine heat, and thus provide more power for comparable displacements, with water-cooling.

2. There's no fairing. Riders are exposed to the elements, including wind-blast, rain, and cold. A large, modern fairing would not only resolve those issues, but would also provide a location to install features such as "Infotainment" systems, GPS, satellite TV, etc.

3. No luggage. Where the heck are you supposed to put your hair dryer if you take a road trip? A large top case and side-bags would go a long way here.

4. Chain drive. Are you kidding me? A shaft drive would be quieter, cleaner, and virtually zero maintenance. CB buyers are stuck with cleaning and lubricating chains for the life of the motorcycle.

5. I-4 engine layout. This engine design is simply outdated. A V-4 or horizontally opposed 6 cylinder engine would produce more power and fewer vibrations.

6. Single headlight. Two headlights would provide better visibility for both the rider and surrounding traffic. Shame on Honda for not investing a few dollars more here.

Sounds to me like you need another bike. I'm blessed to have three, and one of them (Concours 14) addresses all of your issues with the CB except the inline four "problem." The Concours is a great bike, but you know, when I pass through the garage where they're covered up from our lousy winter, the one I most want to get on and ride is the CB. :celebrate:

 

[the Ferret]

Methinks Spaceman was pulling someones leg.

 

[Greg Davis_imp]

Here's my list of design failings of the CB:

1. It's air-cooled. What were they thinking? It's so much easier to control engine heat, and thus provide more power for comparable displacements, with water-cooling.

2. There's no fairing. Riders are exposed to the elements, including wind-blast, rain, and cold. A large, modern fairing would not only resolve those issues, but would also provide a location to install features such as "Infotainment" systems, GPS, satellite TV, etc.

3. No luggage. Where the heck are you supposed to put your hair dryer if you take a road trip? A large top case and side-bags would go a long way here.

4. Chain drive. Are you kidding me? A shaft drive would be quieter, cleaner, and virtually zero maintenance. CB buyers are stuck with cleaning and lubricating chains for the life of the motorcycle.

5. I-4 engine layout. This engine design is simply outdated. A V-4 or horizontally opposed 6 cylinder engine would produce more power and fewer vibrations.

6. Single headlight. Two headlights would provide better visibility for both the rider and surrounding traffic. Shame on Honda for not investing a few dollars more here.

Like the Air Cooled.

Didn't want a fairing, ( not my cup of tea )

Didn't want luggage rack, (If you want luggage rack you can add one)

I'm fine with chain drive, if I wanted shaft, I would buy a BMW

Love the I-4 engine

Single head light is perfect, multiple head lights look weird

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[rboe]

Seriously; the oil cooler is in the way of making a mount for a Vetter fairing. There are times I'd consider a Vetter on this girl.

Taller seat; but that is purely subjective.
Other gripes have been addressed with the Deluxe version (except tubeless spoked wheels).
The frame is what it is to avoid being an aluminum perimeter frame. The engineers get full marks for making a strong frame using tubing. :worship:
I'd like a longer front fender to protect the engine from road crap.
Four into four. But I guess you need to decide what era your retro bike is going to be from. I prefer the 70's. It's about the only thing from the 70's I prefer.

 

[DAC]

The only disadvantages for an I4 that I know of came from reading Kevin Cameron (Cycle World.) He puts some people to sleep but he did one article comparing I4s to V4s, mainly in racing applications, and since I own a V4 Interceptor I was able to stay awake for that one.

First, an I4 with a 180* crankshaft has a dead inertial moment twice every rotation as the pistons bottom out/top out at the same time. IIRC, this creates a need for beefier counterweights on the crank. Racing engines where the counterweights were lightened up too much resulted in "shuddering" at corner exit as power was applied at lower RPMs. In the V4, when two pistons are at the top/bottom of their stroke, the other two are in the middle of a stroke, resulting in continuing inertia, and the ability to use lighter counterweights.

With the heavier counterweights and a generally longer unit, the crank has much more of a gyroscopic effect, resisting turn in, and making the bike feel heavier. Again, V4s by nature have a narrower crank and produce less such turning resistance.

As Ferret mentions, the engine is wider in an I4 and can create a teeter totter effect compared to an V4, which is more centralized in the bike like a bowling ball.

Another difference between these two isn't an advantage/disadvantage, just a difference. The I4 makes its power fairly evenly with power pulses like x-o-x-o-x-o-x-o. That's a gross oversimplification, I think, but you get the idea. The V4 is more like x-x-o-o-x-x-o-o. That is also an oversimplification. In racing, the V4's gap in power pulses aided corner exit by acting like a kind of traction control as the "rests" helped the tire reconnect in moments of too much throttle while the bike is leaned over. However, in a street riding application, this has little utility.

Finally, there's the sound. An I4 can have that angry-hornet-riding-a-jet-turbine sound while a V4 has a distinctive growl often described as half of a small block Chevy. Both, frankly, are music to my ears.

 

[CB4ME_imp]

Spaceman -