Complicated solution to a simple problem

[peterbaron]

:-/:-/, even more expensive than our ETR-407

 

[Nachodaddy]

So, under the new arrangements, Gone, any car driver can pay a toll and use the fast lanes? Or is there still a requirement for more than one person in the vehicle?

The way these lanes work, if you have three or more people in a car, you aren’t charged a toll. Otherwise, before you enter these lanes, you pass a big electronic message board that shows the current toll prices for different destinations along the length of the toll lanes, like interchanges with upcoming freeways. The toll prices vary based on traffic levels, but you have enough time to view the tolls and decide to take the lane or stay on the main freeway. Your account is charged for each use and is automatically reloaded from your bank account if your balance falls below, I think, thirty bucks.

These lanes along the 405 are new, so I’m not familiar with the toll ranges, but on some of the other freeways that have the toll lanes, some areas with heavy traffic can be pretty expensive.

In any case, these toll lanes are now along three freeways that I frequently use, and they’re a big time saver on a bike and a no-brainer since we’re not charged.

Up north of the border here we have the most expensive toll freeway in the world. Peak period before taxes and other fees is about $0.61 per km. And the toll freeway does not even cross any significant geographical feature like a large waterway or mountain valley.

Motorcycles pay the same as cages, unless their plate happens to be "unreadable".

Ah, the perfect excuse not to take a Freeway!

Ah, the perfect excuse not to take a Freeway!

 

[Gone in 60]

The most expensive segment I've seen around here is the 91 to 15 freeway transition, continuing down the 15 for a few exits. $11.50 for a few miles. I won't pay that out of pricipal, and sitting in the regular traffic, it's mainly for frustration relief than anything else, as it would save maybe 15 minutes.

With the increasing number of dedicated toll roads and toll lanes on regular freeways in California, the state has had to adapt to people who try to skirt the system. Bikes are free on the Southern California toll lanes on the freeways, but we do have three dedicated toll roads, the 73, 241 and 261 down here in Orange County, and all vehicles, including motorcycles, pay to use them. Initially they had staffed toll booths, but when they transitioned to automated tolling, people got creative. Tolling is done by camera, so that if you happen to "forget" your billing transponder, which was a little box, the toll point would snap a picture of your plate and bill your account.

Here's where it gets creative. Throughout history, California did not put a temporary paper license plate on new cars like other states. Your temporary registration was just a little piece of paper about the size of a business card, taped inside the windshield by the salesman. You had a maximum of six months to run without metal plates on your car to allow time for the state DMW to process the new car registration and mail your plates to you, which usually took a few weeks. So, it was reeeeaaallly convenient to run the toll roads with a newer car with no plates...no charge! In fact, if you kept your new car nice and clean, there was really no way of enforcing a car without plates unless an officer pulled the car over and looked really closely at the little tag in the windshield for an expiration date in 10-point font.

Those of us on motorcycles would try to be creative too. The early cameras were above each lane to catch the plates. But with a big tail box that hung over the back, when you went under the tolling cameras, if you straddled two lanes, there was a pretty good chance that the cameras wouldn't see you, and if one of them did, the angle and the box might be enough to hide your plate.

Due to the rampant use of toll roads by scofflaws like me, who "oops, didn't stay in my lane on my bike", or "oops, still haven't gotten those plates in the mail for my new car", the state started using temporary paper plates with large numbers and a clearly displayed expiration date for cars and bikes, and the transponders are now permanent stickers.

 

[pdedse]

The most expensive segment I've seen around here is the 91 to 15 freeway transition, continuing down the 15 for a few exits. $11.50 for a few miles. I won't pay that out of pricipal, and sitting in the regular traffic, it's mainly for frustration relief than anything else, as it would save maybe 15 minutes.

With the increasing number of dedicated toll roads and toll lanes on regular freeways in California, the state has had to adapt to people who try to skirt the system. Bikes are free on the Southern California toll lanes on the freeways, but we do have three dedicated toll roads, the 73, 241 and 261 down here in Orange County, and all vehicles, including motorcycles, pay to use them. Initially they had staffed toll booths, but when they transitioned to automated tolling, people got creative. Tolling is done by camera, so that if you happen to "forget" your billing transponder, which was a little box, the toll point would snap a picture of your plate and bill your account.

Here's where it gets creative. Throughout history, California did not put a temporary paper license plate on new cars like other states. Your temporary registration was just a little piece of paper about the size of a business card, taped inside the windshield by the salesman. You had a maximum of six months to run without metal plates on your car to allow time for the state DMW to process the new car registration and mail your plates to you, which usually took a few weeks. So, it was reeeeaaallly convenient to run the toll roads with a newer car with no plates...no charge! In fact, if you kept your new car nice and clean, there was really no way of enforcing a car without plates unless an officer pulled the car over and looked really closely at the little tag in the windshield for an expiration date in 10-point font.

Those of us on motorcycles would try to be creative too. The early cameras were above each lane to catch the plates. But with a big tail box that hung over the back, when you went under the tolling cameras, if you straddled two lanes, there was a pretty good chance that the cameras wouldn't see you, and if one of them did, the angle and the box might be enough to hide your plate.

Due to the rampant use of toll roads by scofflaws like me, who "oops, didn't stay in my lane on my bike", or "oops, still haven't gotten those plates in the mail for my new car", the state started using temporary paper plates with large numbers and a clearly displayed expiration date for cars and bikes, and the transponders are now permanent stickers.

Jahajaha...ah, the ways of mankind are a curious thing.

Let's see...$11.50 for a few miles that saves you 15 minutes. If were patient 4/5 days per week, that means you've waited an extra hour, but you've saved yourself 4 x 11.50 = $46 for your an hour of your time. Shoooot, if I saved minimum wage I'd gladly sit in that traffic.

Wait...minimum wage in California is still less than $46 per hour, isn't it?

 

[Gone in 60]

Hmmm... last time I made minimum wage it was $3.35, so not sure there.
The last time I spent money on toll roads, I had taken a sabbatical from my normal job for a few years to work for a race car parts company east of me. The commute included a 16 mile two-lane twisty that made for a fun ride. The 241 toll road ran parallel to the two-lane road and made the full commute a straight line.

When I got to the ramp for the toll road, I'd check the time, and if I was running really late, I'd suck it up and take the toll road. I'd use my lane-straddling technique, and would get billed about 50% of the time. I'd consider it a penalty for oversleeping.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

... it is sad to have to "pay to go to work".

For me, using the local toll freeway is over $50 per day, plus tax and fees.

 

[Gone in 60]

Bleh! No way! I'll sit in traffic for that much.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Bleh! No way! I'll sit in traffic for that much.

... or leave MUCH later.

 

[the Ferret]

Dang it may get cold here, but I can ride the freeway here all day for free.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Dang it may get cold here, but I can ride the freeway here all day for free.

This is just one cost of living near a metropolis. I think this applies almost everywhere in the world. Heck, some metropolises block cages and motorcycles from entering now, or if not, not without some entry fee.

 

[Cormanus]

Your $50 per day is pretty rich, GO.

 

[Gone in 60]

question: why not the back of the helmet?

I swap between several different helmets from day to day. But, I only have three tail boxes, and I have three bikes.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Your $50 per day is pretty rich, GO.

Sorry Cormanus.

It appears I was off a bit. I haven't looked at the toll rates lately.

Turns out my round trip would be over $100 per day, plus tax.

Here be the toll calculator:

https://www.407etr.com/en/tolls/tolls/toll-calculator.html


There was a time toll was $0.11 per km during peak time. But that is sooo 20th century.

 

[Gone in 60]

Jeebus, that's expensive!

I've only paid to commute once.
Back in the late 90s, when I worked at Petersen Publishing in West L.A. my freeway commute was almost two hours each way. Enough to make you want to eat your steering wheel, and I hadn't started riding yet. I started taking the train from my town to downtown, and the subway to within a short bus ride the rest of the way. At the time, my monthly rail and bus passes totalled about $200 per month. Pricey at the time, but it didn't take any longer than driving, and I could keep my sanity and sleep most of the way to work and back.

They're expanding the subway system, and will soon have a station directly below the Petersen Museum where I still work on weekends. I could take the train and subway to the museum, but I imagine the ticket prices have gone up quite a bit since the 90s, and riding is vastly faster than public transportation.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Jeebus, that's expensive!

I've only paid to commute once.
Back in the late 90s, when I worked at Petersen Publishing in West L.A. my freeway commute was almost two hours each way. Enough to make you want to eat your steering wheel, and I hadn't started riding yet. I started taking the train from my town to downtown, and the subway to within a short bus ride the rest of the way. At the time, my monthly rail and bus passes totalled about $200 per month. Pricey at the time, but it didn't take any longer than driving, and I could keep my sanity and sleep most of the way to work and back.

They're expanding the subway system, and will soon have a station directly below the Petersen Museum where I still work on weekends. I could take the train and subway to the museum, but I imagine the ticket prices have gone up quite a bit since the 90s, and riding is vastly faster than public transportation.

Expanding a subway system sounds like a plan versus more toll freeways.

= = =

The province of Ontario is pretty stupid.

They sold (leased) this overpriced toll freeway to Spain (I think that is still the case?) for 99 years. So some toll proceeds go back to a foreign country.

Meanwhile, the Ontario taxpayer helps cover some freeway maintenance costs, and of course any new extensions including lane expansion.

 

[Gone in 60]

Jeebus, that's expensive!

I've only paid to commute once.
Back in the late 90s, when I worked at Petersen Publishing in West L.A. my freeway commute was almost two hours each way. Enough to make you want to eat your steering wheel, and I hadn't started riding yet. I started taking the train from my town to downtown, and the subway to within a short bus ride the rest of the way. At the time, my monthly rail and bus passes totalled about $200 per month. Pricey at the time, but it didn't take any longer than driving, and I could keep my sanity and sleep most of the way to work and back.

They're expanding the subway system, and will soon have a station directly below the Petersen Museum where I still work on weekends. I could take the train and subway to the museum, but I imagine the ticket prices have gone up quite a bit since the 90s, and riding is vastly faster than public transportation.

Expanding a subway system sounds like a plan versus more toll freeways.

= = =

The province of Ontario is pretty stupid.

They sold (leased) this overpriced toll freeway to Spain (I think that is still the case?) for 99 years. So some toll proceeds go back to a foreign country.

Meanwhile, the Ontario taxpayer helps cover some freeway maintenance costs, and of course any new extensions including lane expansion.

Remember that movie Vocano with Tommy Lee Jones from the '90s, where the La Brea Tar Pits was really a dormant volcano? Part of it was sort of true. They were tunneling below Wishire Boulevard, the main East/West corridor from downtown to the coast at Santa Monica. The further west they dug, the more gas pockets they hit getting closer to the La Brea Tar Pits. Plus, there were claims of poor construction, mishandling of funds, and the whole thing stopped mid-way and became sort of a boondoggle. They never hit lava or triggered a volcano, but there were some gas explosions.

With modern tunneling techniques, they have apparently solved some problems, and they've been digging like gangbusters. At first they expanded the lines in other directions away from the tar pits, but the current construction has underground stations going in on both sides of it along Wilshire, so maybe they'll have to pull Tommy out of retirement to save the day if something bad happens.

The above-ground light rail has also expanded quite a bit.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

... yez, I vaguely recall that movie when it was new.

 

[Cormanus]

$100 / day is not 'pretty rich'; it's bloody outrageous unless they're actively trying to stop people using it.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

$100 / day is not 'pretty rich'; it's bloody outrageous unless they're actively trying to stop people using it.

Needless to say, the freeway is underutilized.

Many hooligan motorcycle riders use the freeway by temporarily blocking their license plate upon ingress and egress of the roadway. Some riders simply have no plates.

Since traffic is light, they often test their top speed. I can hear them often in the late summer nights as their inline lumps wind up and fill the region with sound. It is not uncommon hearing riders brag about breaking 300 km/h on their 600s.

 

[pdedse]

Motorcycle Plate Flipper - Discreet & Easy Install | Made in the UK

lol.

I love advertising and marketing:

"A MOTORCYCLE PLATE FLIPPER IS IDEAL FOR SHOWS, TRACK DAYS OR BIKE MEETS"

But...

"IT’S UP TO YOU HOW YOU USE YOURS!"

I'd buy one if only there were other uses one could use them for.