alprider
Road warrior
look here by : 2. Modellübersicht the last word in the first section : Edelstahlspeichenpekingduck_imp said:
Honda CB1100 EX, Modelljahr 2017
Broken spokes -> NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE!!!
- Thread starter Riko_imp
- Start date
Honda CB1100 EX, Modelljahr 2017
max
Road warrior
Alprider wass machst du, viele leute sprechen kein deutch hier, and i am struggling as well .:blush:
here is the piece of whom he speaks;
" Die aus Aluminium gefertigten Naben nehmen jeweils 40 Edelstahlspeichen auf (beim Vormodell waren 48 verzinkte Speichen verbaut)."
What Alprider helpfully points out is the new wheel has an aluminum hub with 40 stainless spokes and the old wheel has 48 zinc plated spokes.
Vielen dank Alprider, das hat spass gemacht wieder im deutch zu antworten, schuss
here is the piece of whom he speaks;
" Die aus Aluminium gefertigten Naben nehmen jeweils 40 Edelstahlspeichen auf (beim Vormodell waren 48 verzinkte Speichen verbaut)."
What Alprider helpfully points out is the new wheel has an aluminum hub with 40 stainless spokes and the old wheel has 48 zinc plated spokes.
Vielen dank Alprider, das hat spass gemacht wieder im deutch zu antworten, schuss
alprider
Road warrior
people :
google online translater....helps a lot and its very easy to handle....
.
i (must) work very often with it...:hello::hello:
and yes the other text is in this part:
3. Ausstattungs-Merkmale
in section 4
google online translater....helps a lot and its very easy to handle....
.i (must) work very often with it...:hello::hello:
and yes the other text is in this part:
3. Ausstattungs-Merkmale
in section 4
Bazbro_imp
Road warrior
Well-spotted, Alp! Thanks 
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Welcome to the Forum Uncanny Aleman. When not elsewhere, you will be here.
Bazbro_imp
Road warrior
Yes, welcome Uncanny Aleman.
That's uncanny, because Houtman is an aleman too. Yes - uncanny!!
That's uncanny, because Houtman is an aleman too. Yes - uncanny!!
pekingduck
Road warrior
"What Alprider helpfully points out is the new wheel has an aluminum hub with 40 stainless spokes and the old wheel has 48 zinc plated spokes. "
Thanks very much for the translation and clarification. In the US market, we did not receive any CB1100s until 2013 and 2014, and they were all cast-wheel versions. We received no 2015 or 2016 models, and the only 2017 models we got were wire-wheel models (no RS models ever).
A check of the parts catalog shows that US wire-wheel models are 40-spoke, and presumably stainless. Still, if someone could put a magnet to their spokes, it would be nice to know.
Thanks very much for the translation and clarification. In the US market, we did not receive any CB1100s until 2013 and 2014, and they were all cast-wheel versions. We received no 2015 or 2016 models, and the only 2017 models we got were wire-wheel models (no RS models ever).
A check of the parts catalog shows that US wire-wheel models are 40-spoke, and presumably stainless. Still, if someone could put a magnet to their spokes, it would be nice to know.
max
Road warrior
Honda made another change to the stainless spoked wheel; they changed the way the power transfers from the hub to the rim,
the spokes with the bend near the head now take this load as opposed to the old hub.
this is shown in the insert picture on the lower right corner, notice how the spokes cross over each other,
they swapped the function of the spokes and corrected the situation by supporting the bend much more closer to and by the hub,
this way the stress on the bend of the spoke is much reduced.
You may have to click on the picture to show the details clearly.
and another one of the old hub which shows the drive force transfers through the "weaker" spoke type which puts more stress on the spoke bend;
And thanks again to Alprider who pointed out the difference in the spokes used now
.
the spokes with the bend near the head now take this load as opposed to the old hub.
this is shown in the insert picture on the lower right corner, notice how the spokes cross over each other,
they swapped the function of the spokes and corrected the situation by supporting the bend much more closer to and by the hub,
this way the stress on the bend of the spoke is much reduced.
You may have to click on the picture to show the details clearly.
and another one of the old hub which shows the drive force transfers through the "weaker" spoke type which puts more stress on the spoke bend;
And thanks again to Alprider who pointed out the difference in the spokes used now
.
I think he doesnt even have a car and does everything on his motorcycle, quite sure actuallyUncanny Aleman_imp said:
I saw the state of his previous Honda and could tell he does everything on two wheels
Maybe the cb is too nice for a daily, but who am I to say wich bike is perfect for him, he absolutely was in love with the 2014 model.
This video gives hint of his CB1100EX love:
Imo, still one of the best looking bikes out there, and not in its class, but generally speaking.
So yeah, in conclusion, he tries to look after it in the best of his knowledge.
That said, I'm getting a whole lot of cuss, insults and hate from 2 members of one of the CB1100 facebookgroups:
Un-cuss-believable what the hell copes out f their mouth, I'm genuinly shocked.
Social media at its worst right there.
They basically put the guy down because: 'he's an idiot because he didnt look after his bike'
So its basicakly his own damn fault
The heat went up when hinted that build quality are not as expected after a 43.000km service of the spokes and broke at 50.000km
Hinting that Honda was to blame made em go loco...
I posted the same video on various english groups and a french and a german forum, all recived with tips and with understanding messages (like here
)....and I really have to restrain myself NOT to think that most Americans aren't arrogant a-holes with a lack of basic manners, even they are only with 2 of em.One of them basically started his comment with, 'he's an idiot'
Aftersome more name calling and insults, one of them even questioned if I wasn't the real owner, because 'I took the comments very personally'
I mean WTF, the owner isnt even a memember let alone he could defend himself :dodgy:
alprider
Road warrior
made any pics this afternoon
modell 2017:
Microsoft OneDrive
modell 2014
Microsoft OneDrive
better quality for zoom if you download it...
modell 2017:
Microsoft OneDrive
modell 2014
Microsoft OneDrive
better quality for zoom if you download it...
max
Road warrior
Thanks for posting Alprider, that's very clear.
How's the new rx100 mk6 working for you?
How's the new rx100 mk6 working for you?
alprider
Road warrior
i have the rx100 mk4.....this littel thing is something lightweight I always have to be careful so that I keep her calm.....and not shaky shake shake...smilee
this pics now i made with the nex5n look my avatar.
this pics now i made with the nex5n look my avatar.
Well, I went out to the garage and pinged all spokes on the '07 klr650 w/44k miles front and back...very musical sounding, although one spoke looked very slightly bent. Then the '17ex CB1100 w/5k miles...again, pure música, no dull sounding thuds.
Since I bought the klr in '08, I've read a bit on spoke maintenance, but still haven't done anything with them. By pulling on them, there doesn't appear to be any loose ones, so I leave it.
Since I bought the klr in '08, I've read a bit on spoke maintenance, but still haven't done anything with them. By pulling on them, there doesn't appear to be any loose ones, so I leave it.
max
Road warrior
Thanks, just now when i was laughing at your funny reply i thought;alprider_imp said:
isn't it neat that two people who have never met and are at the opposite end of the world can have a laugh, amuse and help each other over 2 copper phone wires? spectacular!
:clap:
pekingduck
Road warrior
And..are...the...spokes...stainless?pdedse_imp said:
Yes, thanks Alprider for the pictures! I looked at them and saw several things of note.alprider_imp said:
Honda uses 4 different rear wheel spokes for early hubs - 2 insides of different length, and 2 "outside" of different lengths. Same on the 2017, but different length and material. (Triumph does the same on the Bonnies).
And as Max in NZ pointed out, on the original rear hub, acceleration pulls on the "outer" spoke, the one with the longer neck before the bend, which causes that spoke to flex as it tries to straighten out.
This seems like bad practice. The longer neck is needed to clear the other spoke as they cross by each other, so they don't force each other to bend and distort.
The holes drilled in the hubs for the inner and outer spokes are not not in the same diameter circle, so they clear each other without the outer spokes having the extra neck length. On the 2017 hub, drive side inner pulls, on the brake side, outer pulls (and that's normal for most spoked wheels). But now, both inner and outer have the same strength, no flexing, so no real difference.
The last thing of note is that on the original wheels (see the last picture of the front wheel), there are some spoke threads visible, which makes me wonder if they are only partially engaging the spoke nipple threads. The spoke nipple's internal threads start about 4-5 mm down from the top. That stepped section of the spokes should be hidden by the recess in the spoke nipples.
[attachment=9692]
Not looking to rush our right away to purchase spoke wrench, but how to determine spoke size for the 17ex? Looked in service manuel and online, but I can't find it.
pekingduck
Road warrior
Depends. Are they steel or stainless? :-/pdedse_imp said:
jtopiso_imp
Been there
Well... spokes are like "stay-cables" on a bridge. The work in tension only, so they don't flex: they just stretch.The ferret_imp said:
Preload on them has to be high enough so load cycles are small and fatigue is minimized (load will be small compared to tension, so cycle amplitude is small). If load is to high, you could have metal yield (so tension becomes VERY low), ir it can just snap (this depends on the alloy). In any case: spoke preload is VERY important.
Without knowing this case, I'd point the probable causes to be:
-wrong servicing (i.e. bad preload on spokes) -> most probable
-bad batch of spokes -> unlikely: we would have heard of more.
-corrosion failure -> unlikely: we would have heard of more.
-bad design -> VERY unlikely: spoke rim design is not exactly a new unknown technology
This is just my opinion, but if I had to bet... this failure can be from something very simple like a unit conversion problem from [Nm] to [lb·ft].
I'm glad nothing irreversible happened!
Some interesting info I've just found regarding spoked wheels:
http://poehali.net/attach/Bicycle_Wheel_-_Jobst_Brandt.pdf
peterbaron
Road warrior
Wow Jtopiso, very professional link with condensed explanation. Thanks for this technical link
kennyw
Road warrior
You cannot rule the last three as unlikely without further investigation. I've seen all of these types of failures in my 20+ years as a mechanical engineer across many mature product lines and industries.jtopiso_imp said:
The fact Honda changed the spoke wheel design tells me they MAY have been aware of a design issue OR the change was to cut cost. However, since the materials used after the design change are more expensive, I doubt it was a cost cut.
