GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Yeah, I think the engine compression is pretty high; something like 13:1. If so, that could explain that experience.Frulk_imp said:
2021 Harley Davidson Pan America in Showrooms
- Thread starter Frulk_imp
- Start date
Stichill
Road warrior
I'm susceptible to annoyance from audible mechanical engine noises. My Triumph Thunderbird 1600 did that...whining/spinning sounds + cam racket.
I saw the shade thrown at 250 thumpers (I get it...the exhaust note is annoying), but a big advantage of them is non-existent mechanical engine noises. All I hear (quiet stock exhaust) is induction growl, especially at high rpm. I personally am a fan of induction vs. exhaust sounds.
I saw the shade thrown at 250 thumpers (I get it...the exhaust note is annoying), but a big advantage of them is non-existent mechanical engine noises. All I hear (quiet stock exhaust) is induction growl, especially at high rpm. I personally am a fan of induction vs. exhaust sounds.
Tev62
Road warrior
Engine braking is four stage selectable, you can turn it up or down to suit. You might have it high for the twisties and backed right off for the freeway.Frulk_imp said:
Stichill said...“I saw the shade thrown at 250 thumpers (I get it...the exhaust note is annoying), but a big advantage of them is non-existent mechanical engine noises.”
I expect a 250 to sound like a 250.... and a 1250 to sound like a...well...a 1250. No dig on thumpers of any size. My 2009 KLR’s motor to me at least sounded more pleasing. Mind you, I LIKE mechanical and some auditory feedback from my bikes. I guess that’s why there’s a Guzzi in my garage. The PA motor (to me at least) provides too much of it from the motor and too little at the exhaust and all of it at the wrong frequencies.
Obviously this is a personal preference and the next mbr to ride it and post up here may have a totally different, and valid opinion on this point. I’ll be very interested in that and hope somebody here does ride and comment on the bike.
I expect a 250 to sound like a 250.... and a 1250 to sound like a...well...a 1250. No dig on thumpers of any size. My 2009 KLR’s motor to me at least sounded more pleasing. Mind you, I LIKE mechanical and some auditory feedback from my bikes. I guess that’s why there’s a Guzzi in my garage. The PA motor (to me at least) provides too much of it from the motor and too little at the exhaust and all of it at the wrong frequencies.
Obviously this is a personal preference and the next mbr to ride it and post up here may have a totally different, and valid opinion on this point. I’ll be very interested in that and hope somebody here does ride and comment on the bike.
Tev62
Road warrior
I took a test ride on the Pan American today and posted it up on one of the Triumph forums I use. To keep it simple I repeat it here as is, that is why there is the occasional reference to the Tiger.
I took a two hour test ride on the Pan America (PA) today and it was a hoot. I really enjoyed the bike, the engine is its focal feature for sure. I'll get straight to the point, would I buy it? No. Would I ever buy one, absolutely.
Negatives first
DISPLAY The normal riding display implementation is very poor, very small text for a lot of the information. The gear position indicator, current revs and fuel gauge are hard to pick up on. You can declutter it and take items off you don't need, like I don't care that the battery voltage is 14.4v, but you end up with wasted display estate, I was hoping the rest would get larger but it didn't. That was a great shame, it makes the T12 riding screen look like a design masterclass, easily displaying good information on what is a smaller screen. Set speed for cruise was not there as mentioned above, not a deal breaker but I like to see it. It was not all bad news though, the menus and navigation for setup was intuitive and easy.
QUICK-SHIFTER There isn't one - big fail! This bike would be well suited to one, after being totally spoilt by the Gen 3 QS I wouldn't have a new multi-day bike without one.
LOAD CAPACITY I have mentioned this before, it is a good bit down on the Tiger, not a great contender for a two up load lugger. For solo only riders it is of no consequence.
The rest are merely observations or positives.
The engine is a stormer, pulls like a train, is smooth with marginal vibration. It brings out a little hooligan in you and encourages a handful. I had a screaming eagle add on exhaust which popped a lot on deceleration. but with euro regs. I suspect the stock exhaust would do the same. The acceleration sound from the engine was very pleasing and a little louder than I expected it to be. No valve services a boon.
Ergos for me were perfect, I would change nothing. I have a short 29" leg and the adaptive ride height did its job perfectly. Anyone with a 31" leg or more does not need it to my mind. Seat was comfy, bars were an easier reach than the Tiger. Standing did not work out though, too much of a stoop to the bars but they do offer a factory 2” riser so that is taken care of for taller off-road riders. I used the seat in the high position which gave a good seat to peg ratio. If I am honest this bike fits me better than my Tiger.
Switchgear was really easy to work out but did look slightly low rent compared to the Gen 3. Cruise resume rocker was a stiff old button. Rider modes were nice and easy to select. Looks like you can disable specific rider modes in the setup too so to take them out of the menu choice which I would like on the Tiger.
Handling is something to get used to, at medium speeds the steering damper feels as if it is working against you a little. Some bends felt like they needed a little opposite lock steering which is exaggerated by the narrow bars. Not a deal breaker, something to get used to.
Suspension and Rider modes made a difference in the same way they do with the Tiger. Sport firms it up and rain softens it off and a range in between. Sport seemed like a mode you might use a bit more often, a mode I would not really use too much on the Tiger. Sport rider mode isn't suited to town riding, the motor doesn't particularly like low revs in town.
Overall, the bike is not some great improvement over any ADV bike out there. From a technical standpoint it lags in terms of the latest gadgets that we see from BMW, Ducati and KTM and I suspect the next Gen Tiger 1200, maybe not a bad thing either. It has also gone in a completely different direction to all other ADV bikes, strip the minimal front end plastics top box and you could be looking at a classic roadster, just jacked up a little.
So just a new dash and a quick-shifter and that would do it for me. Better than any other ADV out there, not really, just different, H-D’s way and none the worse for it.
I took a two hour test ride on the Pan America (PA) today and it was a hoot. I really enjoyed the bike, the engine is its focal feature for sure. I'll get straight to the point, would I buy it? No. Would I ever buy one, absolutely.
Negatives first
DISPLAY The normal riding display implementation is very poor, very small text for a lot of the information. The gear position indicator, current revs and fuel gauge are hard to pick up on. You can declutter it and take items off you don't need, like I don't care that the battery voltage is 14.4v, but you end up with wasted display estate, I was hoping the rest would get larger but it didn't. That was a great shame, it makes the T12 riding screen look like a design masterclass, easily displaying good information on what is a smaller screen. Set speed for cruise was not there as mentioned above, not a deal breaker but I like to see it. It was not all bad news though, the menus and navigation for setup was intuitive and easy.
QUICK-SHIFTER There isn't one - big fail! This bike would be well suited to one, after being totally spoilt by the Gen 3 QS I wouldn't have a new multi-day bike without one.
LOAD CAPACITY I have mentioned this before, it is a good bit down on the Tiger, not a great contender for a two up load lugger. For solo only riders it is of no consequence.
The rest are merely observations or positives.
The engine is a stormer, pulls like a train, is smooth with marginal vibration. It brings out a little hooligan in you and encourages a handful. I had a screaming eagle add on exhaust which popped a lot on deceleration. but with euro regs. I suspect the stock exhaust would do the same. The acceleration sound from the engine was very pleasing and a little louder than I expected it to be. No valve services a boon.
Ergos for me were perfect, I would change nothing. I have a short 29" leg and the adaptive ride height did its job perfectly. Anyone with a 31" leg or more does not need it to my mind. Seat was comfy, bars were an easier reach than the Tiger. Standing did not work out though, too much of a stoop to the bars but they do offer a factory 2” riser so that is taken care of for taller off-road riders. I used the seat in the high position which gave a good seat to peg ratio. If I am honest this bike fits me better than my Tiger.
Switchgear was really easy to work out but did look slightly low rent compared to the Gen 3. Cruise resume rocker was a stiff old button. Rider modes were nice and easy to select. Looks like you can disable specific rider modes in the setup too so to take them out of the menu choice which I would like on the Tiger.
Handling is something to get used to, at medium speeds the steering damper feels as if it is working against you a little. Some bends felt like they needed a little opposite lock steering which is exaggerated by the narrow bars. Not a deal breaker, something to get used to.
Suspension and Rider modes made a difference in the same way they do with the Tiger. Sport firms it up and rain softens it off and a range in between. Sport seemed like a mode you might use a bit more often, a mode I would not really use too much on the Tiger. Sport rider mode isn't suited to town riding, the motor doesn't particularly like low revs in town.
Overall, the bike is not some great improvement over any ADV bike out there. From a technical standpoint it lags in terms of the latest gadgets that we see from BMW, Ducati and KTM and I suspect the next Gen Tiger 1200, maybe not a bad thing either. It has also gone in a completely different direction to all other ADV bikes, strip the minimal front end plastics top box and you could be looking at a classic roadster, just jacked up a little.
So just a new dash and a quick-shifter and that would do it for me. Better than any other ADV out there, not really, just different, H-D’s way and none the worse for it.
PowerDubs_imp
Road warrior
Honest question- why would someone want to shift that bike 'quick'?
Sure- a hardcore sport bike might- especially at a track... but this?
Sure- a hardcore sport bike might- especially at a track... but this?
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
I am warm to the fashion of the Pam Am.
Good feedback Tev.
Good feedback Tev.
the Ferret
Road warrior
Saw one in the flesh going the opposite direction in South Dakota.
Stichill
Road warrior
GoldOxide_imp said:
Dat grille; dat headlight
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
I think they make the viewer look.Stichill_imp said:GoldOxide_imp said:
Dat grille; dat headlight
The Pam Am has polarized the ADV fashion world for sure.
tod.branko_imp
Been there
Tev62_imp said:
That's odd, the smart/active suspension (i forgot what HD call it) is supposed to keep your sag and dampening speed optimal at all times. Did you play with those settings perhaps?
Then again, I haven't tried it so I can't say for sure,
but overall I have to say I'm quite pleasantly surprised by what Harley-Davidson has done with these two new bikes, I like the styling and the vision, I think it's commendable
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed
Tev62
Road warrior
Quick-shifters (QS) are not about sporty riding anymore, they are about smooth and effortless riding. The name is a bit of a misnomer really, it should just read "clutchless shifter". On a busily geared European road you can be changing gear all the time, e.g. the Wild Atlantic Way in Ireland and all our small busy towns and villages. Constant gearchanges can be tiresome on the clutch. The QS makes changing gear a delight, most auto blip on the downshift too for a smooth transition. They are very pillion friendly also. My Tiger is the first bike I had with one and I felt the same way as you but I wouldn't buy a long distance bike without one now they are so good. I recently made a video of the top five day to day items that I liked on my Tiger, the QS was no1.PowerDubs_imp said:
Tev62
Road warrior
tod.branko_imp said:
That's odd, the smart/active suspension (i forgot what HD call it) is supposed to keep your sag and dampening speed optimal at all times. Did you play with those settings perhaps?
Then again, I haven't tried it so I can't say for sure,
but overall I have to say I'm quite pleasantly surprised by what Harley-Davidson has done with these two new bikes, I like the styling and the vision, I think it's commendable
'14 CB1100 STD 5 speed
It is not about it being able to adjust the suspension, which was particularly good, couldn't fault it. It is Harleys own "load rating" for the bike. That could be down to frame design, especially the subframe or suspension range, wheel loading or any manner of things. I applaud Harley for publishing it, as do BMW and Triumph, a lot of bike manufacturers go out of their way to hide it. Up until the new Yamaha 900GT came out this year the old one had a max load rating of 167kg which is extremely poor for a touring bike, corrected on the 2021 model I believe.
TEV 62 makes a good point. Over here in the US we call no shift trannys DCT. Honda’s DCT version seems to receive stellar reviews. My buddy has it on his 2020 Gold Wing. In rough stuff or on a moderate climb on dirt or rutted logging road that would be VERY handy on a bike the size of the HDPA, never mind the benefits of riding on the road.
Surprised it’s not an option considering this is a break through model for the MoCo.
Surprised it’s not an option considering this is a break through model for the MoCo.
bvictory_imp
Running like a top
My buddy sold his newer Goldwing and bought the Pan America and absolutely loves it. He is not a Harley person in any way as well. Harley hit a home run with this bike.
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Indeed. That is a testament.bvictory_imp said:
Phadreus_imp
Running like a top
I'm just happy to see HD offering something to broaden their marketing to more than the cruiser/tourer markets. This is encouraging, and I have to imagine straying outside the normal air-cooled cruiser market is always tough for HD. They've not seen the success they've wanted in past years when they deviate too far from the standard HD formula. Ie, V-Rod, Buell...
I stopped at AD Farrow's in Columbus, OH last weekend hoping to ride a Pan Am. None on their floor. They did however have 12 Sportsters, 15 Street Glides and 16 Ultras. Neat. :-/ Interestingly, I spoke to a Salesman while wondering around and he said "Nearly every HD Salesmen that works here, including the owner, all own Metric bikes as well as their HD. Harley just doesn't offer the type of bikes we all love, so we have to buy others Manufacturers.
We then drove a hundred yards away to a Ducati / Triumph / BMW Dealer and walked through their dealership. BWM had Sport, Cruiser, Adventure, Touring bikes as well as Scramblers, Bobbers, Heritage & Cafe bikes all on the floor. Pretty broad offering for one Manufacturer IMO.
I love HD, always have, and I've owned many. I personally believe they need to broaden their offerings to appeal to a larger market than they currently serve. Hopefully the Pan Am is a good start on this.
I stopped at AD Farrow's in Columbus, OH last weekend hoping to ride a Pan Am. None on their floor. They did however have 12 Sportsters, 15 Street Glides and 16 Ultras. Neat. :-/ Interestingly, I spoke to a Salesman while wondering around and he said "Nearly every HD Salesmen that works here, including the owner, all own Metric bikes as well as their HD. Harley just doesn't offer the type of bikes we all love, so we have to buy others Manufacturers.
We then drove a hundred yards away to a Ducati / Triumph / BMW Dealer and walked through their dealership. BWM had Sport, Cruiser, Adventure, Touring bikes as well as Scramblers, Bobbers, Heritage & Cafe bikes all on the floor. Pretty broad offering for one Manufacturer IMO.
I love HD, always have, and I've owned many. I personally believe they need to broaden their offerings to appeal to a larger market than they currently serve. Hopefully the Pan Am is a good start on this.
redbirds_imp
Road warrior
I just read on FB that a Pan America had a total engine failure. The owner said that HD is replacing the motor. I really hope this is an isolated thing.
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Ah crap, too bad.
Like anything I suppose, "don't buy the first model year". HD has no choice but to triage the issue.
Like anything I suppose, "don't buy the first model year". HD has no choice but to triage the issue.
Tev62
Road warrior
You would hope this engine failure in the Pan America is a one off, they have been testing this engine forever and I can't believe it is a design flaw. There is also a very specific way to measure the engine oil on this bike. I guarantee a load of owners will not read the manual and cause self harm doing their own oil changes.