2014 Start - Cutoff Switch Question

[deltamark]

My 2014 CB1100 died this weekend while taking it out for a short test ride. I was coming up to a stop sign about 2.5 miles from my home when the engine died and would not restart. I had power, lights, etc, but it nothing happened when I hit the start switch. Couldn't hear the fuel pump come on when I turned the key.

I called a friend who suggested that the starter switch and or cutoff switch might have taken on moisture. (He knew that I have to store my bike outside under a cover during the winter.) He suggested holding down the starter switch while toggling the cutoff switch on and off. This technique may have worked because eventually I was able to get it started again. When I got the bike home, I sprayed the switches with WD-40. The battery checked out OK.

Wondering if anyone has had this experience and if so ... was it moisture in the switch? If that was the case, are there any other things I can do to guard against this. (Besides get a garage.: )

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Hey deltamark. I don't have a garage. Besides, if you are doing multi-day tours that involve heavy rain on some ride days, you have to ride in the rain. No garage will help there.

I stored motorcycles under outdoor covers for years in all seasons. There are condensation issues for sure, especially when transitioning from a warm bike undercover and cooling air. Ensure your cover can "breathe". If anything else, this limits the pitting on the chromed and aluminum components. WD-40 will displace moisture, but will leave a lubricating residue. I am not sure if this is desirable. Possibly consider using a "tuner cleaner" used on electrical switch components. It removes moisture and cleans the electrical contacts, assuming the cleaner reaches them.

As for keeping moisture out of the switch, I imagine the seal(s) have become compromised? Motorcycle switch gear is supposed to be weather-resistant, otherwise vehicle operation would not be fit for safe use. Example: If your engine kill switch asserted while riding in the rain (and due to rain), that would be unsafe.

Also consider inspecting associated cabling and inter-connections for water build-up.

 

[Retsel_imp]

I use electrical grease on all contacts exposed to weather. Of course the contact switch has to be disassembled to apply it. So, this will only help once you find the trouble area. I agree with G.O. stay away from WD40 for electrical contacts of any kind.

 

[peterbaron]

^ +1
Di-Electric Grease, very good and commonly used with great success in automotive industry...if someone is extremely picky..Stabilant 22A (contact enhancer) can be used, expensive though.

 

[deltamark]

Thanks GoldOxide, Retsel and Peterbaron. I'll stop using WD-40 for switches.

Are any of you familiar with ACF-50? I have some of that and am wondering if it will be as effective as the Di-Electric grease?

Hey deltamark. I don't have a garage. Besides, if you are doing multi-day tours that involve heavy rain on some ride days, you have to ride in the rain. No garage will help there.

I stored motorcycles under outdoor covers for years in all seasons. There are condensation issues for sure, especially when transitioning from a warm bike undercover and cooling air. Ensure your cover can "breathe". If anything else, this limits the pitting on the chromed and aluminum components. WD-40 will displace moisture, but will leave a lubricating residue. I am not sure if this is desirable. Possibly consider using a "tuner cleaner" used on electrical switch components. It removes moisture and cleans the electrical contacts, assuming the cleaner reaches them.

As for keeping moisture out of the switch, I imagine the seal(s) have become compromised? Motorcycle switch gear is supposed to be weather-resistant, otherwise vehicle operation would not be fit for safe use. Example: If your engine kill switch asserted while riding in the rain (and due to rain), that would be unsafe.

Also consider inspecting associated cabling and inter-connections for water build-up.

I use electrical grease on all contacts exposed to weather. Of course the contact switch has to be disassembled to apply it. So, this will only help once you find the trouble area. I agree with G.O. stay away from WD40 for electrical contacts of any kind.

^ +1
Di-Electric Grease, very good and commonly used with great success in automotive industry...if someone is extremely picky..Stabilant 22A (contact enhancer) can be used, expensive though.

 

[peterbaron]

Have not heard about/used ACF-50,...but our aircraft specialist Flynrider can have a word about it

 

[Houtman_imp]

ACF - 50 is used a lot in the UK for protecting chrome and many other area's , with all the rain and dampness in England you need good protecting against the elements.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Actually, ACF-50

 

[Bazbro_imp]

In the old days, I satisfactorily used ordinary Vaseline in the switches and to stop rusting in hidden places, like the inside of headlamp rim and bowl, etc.
There are probably better, dedicated compounds now. I know ACF-50 has a good reputation in the UK.

 

[max]

Deltamark glad you had someone with good advice, the cutoff switch is the only part that stops the pump ( apart from the pump relay and the bank angle sensor which normally do not give any trouble )
The cutoff switch drives the "engine stop relay" which then conducts to negative through the bank angle sensor .
The engine stop relay supplies several vital engine systems such as the fuel pump, fuel injectors and ignition coils.

It is also possible for the engine to be stopped by the sidestand switch through the on-board computer ( ecm ) but in that case the fuelpump would still operate as usual so that does not point to your situation.

At this point it may be a good idea to check the engine cutoff switch by engaging it several times with the ignition key on but engine not running, i would listen to the fuel pump and switch it several times and notice if there is any hesitation or different pitch in the fuel pump.
This switch has been mentioned before on the odd occasion and the fact that it stopped the engine "midstream" would concern me, in your outdoor situation it may be a good idea to cycle it from time to time which means the contacts slide past themselves in a way that cleans the electrical surface of them if there is any buildup of oxide over time.

Well now you have a good idea of how to fix any future gremlins, thanks for sharing your experience with the forum

 

[flynrider]

My 2014 CB1100 died this weekend while taking it out for a short test ride. I was coming up to a stop sign about 2.5 miles from my home when the engine died and would not restart. I had power, lights, etc, but it nothing happened when I hit the start switch. Couldn't hear the fuel pump come on when I turned the key.

I called a friend who suggested that the starter switch and or cutoff switch might have taken on moisture. (He knew that I have to store my bike outside under a cover during the winter.) He suggested holding down the starter switch while toggling the cutoff switch on and off. This technique may have worked because eventually I was able to get it started again. When I got the bike home, I sprayed the switches with WD-40. The battery checked out OK.

Wondering if anyone has had this experience and if so ... was it moisture in the switch? If that was the case, are there any other things I can do to guard against this. (Besides get a garage.: )

I had this problem a few years ago. Here's the thread :

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11611&highlight=stranded

The short version is that my kill switch was indeed the problem. When the shop disassembled and cleaned the contacts, they also applied some dielectric grease to the contacts. Dielectric grease is specifically made to prevent corrosion on switch contacts, so that's probably the best thing to use. I've had no issues with the switch since then.

The switch problem came as a surprise to me, as my bike is always kept in the garage (and I live in the dry desert). It also also rarely ridden in the rain. I know at least one other forum member has had the same issue with this switch.

Lastly, near the end of my thread above, I made a list of the symptoms that you'll see when the kill switch is activated and the key is turned on. It's for a '13, but I think it will also apply to the '14.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

My 2014 CB1100 died this weekend while taking it out for a short test ride. I was coming up to a stop sign about 2.5 miles from my home when the engine died and would not restart. I had power, lights, etc, but it nothing happened when I hit the start switch. Couldn't hear the fuel pump come on when I turned the key.

I called a friend who suggested that the starter switch and or cutoff switch might have taken on moisture. (He knew that I have to store my bike outside under a cover during the winter.) He suggested holding down the starter switch while toggling the cutoff switch on and off. This technique may have worked because eventually I was able to get it started again. When I got the bike home, I sprayed the switches with WD-40. The battery checked out OK.

Wondering if anyone has had this experience and if so ... was it moisture in the switch? If that was the case, are there any other things I can do to guard against this. (Besides get a garage.: )

I had this problem a few years ago. Here's the thread :

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11611&highlight=stranded

The short version is that my kill switch was indeed the problem. When the shop disassembled and cleaned the contacts, they also applied some dielectric grease to the contacts. Dielectric grease is specifically made to prevent corrosion on switch contacts, so that's probably the best thing to use. I've had no issues with the switch since then.

The switch problem came as a surprise to me, as my bike is always kept in the garage (and I live in the dry desert). It also also rarely ridden in the rain. I know at least one other forum member has had the same issue with this switch.

Lastly, near the end of my thread above, I made a list of the symptoms that you'll see when the kill switch is activated and the key is turned on. It's for a '13, but I think it will also apply to the '14.

I had this problem a few years ago. Here's the thread :

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11611&highlight=stranded

The short version is that my kill switch was indeed the problem. When the shop disassembled and cleaned the contacts, they also applied some dielectric grease to the contacts. Dielectric grease is specifically made to prevent corrosion on switch contacts, so that's probably the best thing to use. I've had no issues with the switch since then.

The switch problem came as a surprise to me, as my bike is always kept in the garage (and I live in the dry desert). It also also rarely ridden in the rain. I know at least one other forum member has had the same issue with this switch. ...
I gotta think the real problem is water infiltration. Electro-greasing is not a bad practice, but it doesn't address the real issue. Motorcycle switch gear is engineered for all weather (e.g. rain) riding - or parking.

I reckon desert dust is another issue. Any infiltration would gum-up with any type of grease.

I've had some pretty sorry lookin', sun faded and micro-cracked switch gear that sat out in rain-after-rain and never failed. Associated wires, tubes and gaskets were always sound.

 

[deltamark]

Thank you for sharing this, Flynrider. Definitely sounds like the same issue. So, now I'm wondering how easily (or not) that switch comes apart, or if it's something I should take to my local service shop, who I trust very much.

My 2014 CB1100 died this weekend while taking it out for a short test ride. I was coming up to a stop sign about 2.5 miles from my home when the engine died and would not restart. I had power, lights, etc, but it nothing happened when I hit the start switch. Couldn't hear the fuel pump come on when I turned the key.

I called a friend who suggested that the starter switch and or cutoff switch might have taken on moisture. (He knew that I have to store my bike outside under a cover during the winter.) He suggested holding down the starter switch while toggling the cutoff switch on and off. This technique may have worked because eventually I was able to get it started again. When I got the bike home, I sprayed the switches with WD-40. The battery checked out OK.

Wondering if anyone has had this experience and if so ... was it moisture in the switch? If that was the case, are there any other things I can do to guard against this. (Besides get a garage.: )

I had this problem a few years ago. Here's the thread :

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11611&highlight=stranded

The short version is that my kill switch was indeed the problem. When the shop disassembled and cleaned the contacts, they also applied some dielectric grease to the contacts. Dielectric grease is specifically made to prevent corrosion on switch contacts, so that's probably the best thing to use. I've had no issues with the switch since then.

The switch problem came as a surprise to me, as my bike is always kept in the garage (and I live in the dry desert). It also also rarely ridden in the rain. I know at least one other forum member has had the same issue with this switch.

Lastly, near the end of my thread above, I made a list of the symptoms that you'll see when the kill switch is activated and the key is turned on. It's for a '13, but I think it will also apply to the '14.

I had this problem a few years ago. Here's the thread :

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11611&highlight=stranded

The short version is that my kill switch was indeed the problem. When the shop disassembled and cleaned the contacts, they also applied some dielectric grease to the contacts. Dielectric grease is specifically made to prevent corrosion on switch contacts, so that's probably the best thing to use. I've had no issues with the switch since then.

The switch problem came as a surprise to me, as my bike is always kept in the garage (and I live in the dry desert). It also also rarely ridden in the rain. I know at least one other forum member has had the same issue with this switch.

Lastly, near the end of my thread above, I made a list of the symptoms that you'll see when the kill switch is activated and the key is turned on. It's for a '13, but I think it will also apply to the '14.

 

[Bazbro_imp]

So... the moral of the story is that the kill-switch appears to be a potential weak point; it could do with being disassembled and serviced with dialectric grease and reassembled carefully? I shall certainly do this.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

So... the moral of the story is that the kill-switch appears to be a potential weak point; it could do with being disassembled and serviced with dialectric grease and reassembled carefully? I shall certainly do this.

Try to find the source of the infiltration before switch disassembly. Otherwise, an opportunity to learn something might be lost. Subsequently, pay close attention to any water "staining" inside as you pull it apart. Also look for anything that might resemble a marginal short/opens in terms of possible other internal debris and/or assembly housing fractures.

One more thing to consider: Check the switch wiring. I once had an unpredictable failing Kill Engine switch but I could not find the root cause. I too thought it was a seal breach, but found no evidence. It turned out the root cause was of a marginal open in the kill switch circuit wire and it was located in the steering stock area where the wiring cluster can sometimes get fatigued from steering cycles. Uncommon, but was sensible in the end.

 

[Bazbro_imp]

So... the moral of the story is that the kill-switch appears to be a potential weak point; it could do with being disassembled and serviced with dialectric grease and reassembled carefully? I shall certainly do this.

Try to find the source of the infiltration before switch disassembly. Otherwise, an opportunity to learn something might be lost. Subsequently, pay close attention to any water "staining" inside as you pull it apart. Also look for anything that might resemble a marginal short/opens in terms of possible other internal debris and/or assembly housing fractures.

One more thing to consider: Check the switch wiring. I once had an unpredictable failing Kill Engine switch but I could not find the root cause. I too thought it was a seal breach, but found no evidence. It turned out the root cause was of a marginal open in the kill switch circuit wire and it was located in the steering stock area where the wiring cluster can sometimes get fatigued from steering cycles. Uncommon, but was sensible in the end.

Try to find the source of the infiltration before switch disassembly. Otherwise, an opportunity to learn something might be lost. Subsequently, pay close attention to any water "staining" inside as you pull it apart. Also look for anything that might resemble a marginal short/opens in terms of possible other internal debris and/or assembly housing fractures.

One more thing to consider: Check the switch wiring. I once had an unpredictable failing Kill Engine switch but I could not find the root cause. I too thought it was a seal breach, but found no evidence. It turned out the root cause was of a marginal open in the kill switch circuit wire and it was located in the steering stock area where the wiring cluster can sometimes get fatigued from steering cycles. Uncommon, but was sensible in the end.
:clap:. Great advice, GO.

 

[flynrider]

Thank you for sharing this, Flynrider. Definitely sounds like the same issue. So, now I'm wondering how easily (or not) that switch comes apart, or if it's something I should take to my local service shop, who I trust very much.

My 2014 CB1100 died this weekend while taking it out for a short test ride. I was coming up to a stop sign about 2.5 miles from my home when the engine died and would not restart. I had power, lights, etc, but it nothing happened when I hit the start switch. Couldn't hear the fuel pump come on when I turned the key.

I called a friend who suggested that the starter switch and or cutoff switch might have taken on moisture. (He knew that I have to store my bike outside under a cover during the winter.) He suggested holding down the starter switch while toggling the cutoff switch on and off. This technique may have worked because eventually I was able to get it started again. When I got the bike home, I sprayed the switches with WD-40. The battery checked out OK.

Wondering if anyone has had this experience and if so ... was it moisture in the switch? If that was the case, are there any other things I can do to guard against this. (Besides get a garage.: )

I had this problem a few years ago. Here's the thread :

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11611&highlight=stranded

The short version is that my kill switch was indeed the problem. When the shop disassembled and cleaned the contacts, they also applied some dielectric grease to the contacts. Dielectric grease is specifically made to prevent corrosion on switch contacts, so that's probably the best thing to use. I've had no issues with the switch since then.

The switch problem came as a surprise to me, as my bike is always kept in the garage (and I live in the dry desert). It also also rarely ridden in the rain. I know at least one other forum member has had the same issue with this switch.

Lastly, near the end of my thread above, I made a list of the symptoms that you'll see when the kill switch is activated and the key is turned on. It's for a '13, but I think it will also apply to the '14.

I had this problem a few years ago. Here's the thread :

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11611&highlight=stranded

The short version is that my kill switch was indeed the problem. When the shop disassembled and cleaned the contacts, they also applied some dielectric grease to the contacts. Dielectric grease is specifically made to prevent corrosion on switch contacts, so that's probably the best thing to use. I've had no issues with the switch since then.

The switch problem came as a surprise to me, as my bike is always kept in the garage (and I live in the dry desert). It also also rarely ridden in the rain. I know at least one other forum member has had the same issue with this switch.

Lastly, near the end of my thread above, I made a list of the symptoms that you'll see when the kill switch is activated and the key is turned on. It's for a '13, but I think it will also apply to the '14.

I was on the road without tools when mine malfunctioned, so I just let the shop do it. I don't think it's very complicated as the mechanic took less than 1/2 hr. to disassemble, clean, grease and reassemble.