EarsOnWheels_imp
Running like a top
Hi Long Ranger - putting my 14 into 1st gear is not noisy. Can be a click or clack, but if you are describing it like a gunshot, I think something may be wrong.
1st gear CLACK
- Thread starter LongRanger_imp
- Start date
ClassicVW_imp
Road warrior
Sure.JustPassinThru_imp said:Sure.ClassicVW_imp said:Are you 100% certain there's a "sheen"?
What is it's thickness?
And how much of a "sheen" is good enough?
Just like guessing that the engine is getting too hot, you're still guessing.
That's a nice story about the Ford Granadas, but has no bearing on our Honda engines or their expected longevity.
I can tell you an anecdote about Russian tank engines needing replacement after 100 hours, should I expect that from my CB?
You can certainly do as you wish, but I'm making a mental note to not buy any bike you're selling.
(I'm also done beating this dead horse). Going to the garage now. :beerchug:
Because I don't let it overheat.
An air-cooled engine without an integral fan...WILL overheat when stationary. Not "might." WILL. It's why the manual tells you not to start it up and leave it idle when cold. It needs air flowing over the cooling fins and through the oil cooler.
A film of oil is all that's on lubricated parts at any given time. They are lubricated where there is metal-to-metal contact. And of course the contact presses off all but a film of oil.
I have explained how I know that repeated hot starts are not, in general, going to damage an engine. I have not seen or heard any contrary evidence. We KNOW what overheating does, even when not severe enough to seize the engine up. Warped heads, misshaped cylinders resulting in piston slap.
Nowhere, in any manual, warning, shop manual or text, does it advise leaving an engine, any engine, idling as opposed to turning it off. Many makers advise the opposite. Toyota, in some European models, has an engine that shuts of at stoplights and restarts upon releasing the brake pedal.
I grant, should someone buy a bike I've owned for a time, they might want to expect they'll be buying a starter and/or battery. But that's it.
Because I don't let it overheat.
An air-cooled engine without an integral fan...WILL overheat when stationary. Not "might." WILL. It's why the manual tells you not to start it up and leave it idle when cold. It needs air flowing over the cooling fins and through the oil cooler.
A film of oil is all that's on lubricated parts at any given time. They are lubricated where there is metal-to-metal contact. And of course the contact presses off all but a film of oil.
I have explained how I know that repeated hot starts are not, in general, going to damage an engine. I have not seen or heard any contrary evidence. We KNOW what overheating does, even when not severe enough to seize the engine up. Warped heads, misshaped cylinders resulting in piston slap.
Nowhere, in any manual, warning, shop manual or text, does it advise leaving an engine, any engine, idling as opposed to turning it off. Many makers advise the opposite. Toyota, in some European models, has an engine that shuts of at stoplights and restarts upon releasing the brake pedal.
I grant, should someone buy a bike I've owned for a time, they might want to expect they'll be buying a starter and/or battery. But that's it.
I'd agree with some (maybe much?) of what you say if it was in regard to a long traffic jam where you're idling for an extended period or stuck in one spot with no idea when you'd get moving again. Like the time I was stuck in one spot for two solid hours on RT 81 in Virginia when a serious multi vehicle crash necessitated multiple medevac helicopter transports.
But shutting down and restarting as a regular behavior for just a red traffic signal is just not necessary. No one would ever consider buying a vehicle that could be damaged in the two minutes it takes for a light to change, and the manufacturer of said vehicle would be laughed off the planet and out of business in no time. And no owner's manual has ever suggested we do that. Cars that shut down and restart are using a different method than hitting the starter and the only reason they have that feature is to maximize fuel economy, nothing more. Nothing to do with a hot engine.
the Ferret
Road warrior
Before things get personal, let's just say you agree to disagree, and agree to treat your own machines as you deem best.
ClassicVW_imp
Road warrior
You're absolutely right, sorry. I'm glad we pay you those big bucks....The ferret_imp said:
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
Thanks Ears. Judging by the other comments here, it sounds like I'm not in the minority. The bike shifts wonderfully at all other times, so I'll chalk it up to one more "it is what it is" and continue to enjoy the bike.EarsOnWheels_imp said:
EarsOnWheels_imp
Running like a top
I've compiled several shifts into first gear from neutral for reference here:
emptysea
Road warrior
Nice post, Ear...I can clearly hear a louder noise on the shifts from N to 1 than on the shifts from 3 to 4 and 4 to 5. That's how it is on my bike.
For those who seem to think that they are damaging their bikes by making this "clunky" N-1 shift, maybe it would be helpful to know that many of us have significant mileage on our bikes without a hint of transmission issues. I'm at 20,000 happily clunking miles and I know there others with many more than that.
For those who seem to think that they are damaging their bikes by making this "clunky" N-1 shift, maybe it would be helpful to know that many of us have significant mileage on our bikes without a hint of transmission issues. I'm at 20,000 happily clunking miles and I know there others with many more than that.
ClassicVW_imp
Road warrior
Having come back to Honda after 15 or so years with BMWs, I can attest that BMWs are very clunky too. Very clunky in downshifts too. Some new buyers are quite surprised at this after spending $27,000 on a motorcycle and ask if something is wrong with their bike.
JustPassinThru_imp
Been there
I knew the clunks; but given the driveline layout, I never felt them jump the way the CB does. Part of it, of course, is that the power is not yanking on a chain, but on a shaft, through a reduction final drive, and then to the axle. And part of it is that the clutch is an automotive-style single-plate dry clutch, and not a wet clutch-pack.ClassicVW_imp said:
FWIW, BMW has some serious issues with the shifter mechanism that I haven't heard of with the Japanese brands. Someone even has a tool that's supposed to be used to get the BMW into gear WHEN (not if) the inner shift linkage breaks. His recommendation is to use it to slide it into 2nd and run on that, into town or the repair shop.
Things have changed for BMW since the days of Pirsig's tale.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Thread starter
That's not been my experience with BMW's at all. I've owned at least one since 1996, and have three today. Interesting.
LakeWylieJoe_imp
Running like a top
If it makes you feel better, the clunk isn't doing any damage.
If you want to hear a silent shift into first, do the following:
1) Shift into first with a clunk,
2) continue pulling the clutch lever,
3) shift up into neutral, continue holding the lever,
4) shift back into first...
Why you want to do this? You wouldn't...
If you want to hear a silent shift into first, do the following:
1) Shift into first with a clunk,
2) continue pulling the clutch lever,
3) shift up into neutral, continue holding the lever,
4) shift back into first...
Why you want to do this? You wouldn't...
kmoney_imp
Road warrior
Get a locking clutch lever like some of the old police bikes used to have and never have to find neutral again.
Django
Road warrior
The new K and F models from BMW have in oil multi plate clutch like Japanese motorcycles and thus there is the clunk, because there is still friction in the opened clutch.
The old K models (flying brick) and R models have a dry, automotive like clutch.
Because it is dry, there is no friction between the plates, when open, there is no clunk, when you shift into 1. gear at halt.
Now, when riders change from an old K or R with dry clutch to a new K1600 or K1300 or F800, there is the clunk now, which they don't know from their older K model or R. For sure there is more discussion.
The old K models (flying brick) and R models have a dry, automotive like clutch.
Because it is dry, there is no friction between the plates, when open, there is no clunk, when you shift into 1. gear at halt.
Now, when riders change from an old K or R with dry clutch to a new K1600 or K1300 or F800, there is the clunk now, which they don't know from their older K model or R. For sure there is more discussion.
Pterodactyl_imp
Road warrior
Sounds logical Django. After many kilometres on my CB I take a positive view. That "clunk" is the satisfying confirmation that Last Blast is firmly in first gear and ready for the ride ahead. If it stopped clunking I would be a worried man. You know, like "The Curious Case of the CB that Didn't Clunk Into First".
Cheers
There may be traces of obscure references to Mr Holmes in this post.
Cheers
There may be traces of obscure references to Mr Holmes in this post.
