(09-05-2020, 11:14 PM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote: Please disregard my previous references to 2T (2 stroke oil), which should have read automotive oil.
1. 400% price differential?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/pow...+one&pos=1
After run-in and with the onset of summer in Las Vegas, the final oil used for the CB was Castrol Power One 10W40, a pure synthetic 4T oil: $10.69 per quart or $9.99 on sale. Are you claiming that you purchase your preference for $2.67 per quart or $2.50 on sale?
2. Per your post 1, you stated your intention to spin people up with staunch opinions. Most forum members are probably laughing that I even responded. However, I would not want another CB owner to think that it is wise to follow your advise on using automotive oil. What empirical data have you cited to support so doing?
3. My Ryker is ~7,000 RPMs at 75 MPH. Due to the CVT, RPMs are NOT proportional to speed (107 MPH is 8200 RPMs)
4. Are you claiming that 4T oils are non-detergent?
5. Are you claiming that automotive oils have the same additives as 4T regarding survival at higher RPMs?
6. You may disregard ZDDP, as it has been replaced by other additives (at a higher level in 4T) to save catalytic converters.
7. Why would Bombadier Recreational Products/Can-Am recommend a 4T oil for a vehicle with a separate transmission and a dry clutch?
8. Are you confident that automotive oils have the same shear stability as 4T to properly lubricate the CB transmission gears? The Ryker trans was prepped with XPS 5W40, but 75W140 recommended for high temp operation, which is what I changed to at 1200 miles before summer weather.
1) Your right. 400% was compared to conventional oils, which probably would also work just fine. To be 100% factual, I can get the oil I use (full synthetic) for $4.75/q (including tax every day) to your $10.59 (including tax on sale), for only a 223% difference.
2) I wasn't trying to spin people up, but I thought it would. It did. I am not providing advice, I am providing opinion. Same as you. Yes, I am sure people are laughing at me as you insinuate. I am sure you are aware of what everyone on this board's opinions are about mine, so thanks. My empirical data, as was previously claimed, was that I have been doing this for decades, over 30 different bikes, and 20 cars. So, experience, which to me is the best empirical evidence there is. You are of course, free to dismiss.
3) Any synthetic oil, and dino juice for that matter, will work quite well at 8 or even 10,000 rpms. I prefer synthetic. It's slippier.
4) No. Some people have stated detergents are harmful. The link YOU provided said "Also, these oils [automotive] contain detergent additives, whose ash content is relatively high. If used in motorcycle engines, these could result in the formation of deposits on the piston crowns as well as the valve train. Because detergents are the main cause of pressure build up, this will cause perforation and burning on the components." So they claim automotive detergents are going to perf my piston crowns. Got it. Note the craftily chosen words "could result" and "relatively high". Vague enough purposefully to render meaningless. I was responding to that, and countered detergents don't cause problems, but the link you provided says detergents are the main cause. So, which side are you on? Detergents harmful or not? Maybe you are claiming the detergents in 4T are dramatically different. The manufacturers sure suggest that, with of course, zero evidence to back that up or carbon string data on their formulations. The reason they do this (to me) is if they actually gave you any useful information about it, then their claims can be disproven by research and testing. The way they do it, that is not possible.
5). No. But since neither of us can provide any evidence of any kind what additives are in car or motorcycle specific oil, there is no way to prove anything about that.
6) Point?
7) Well you would have to ask Bombadier about that. I don't work for them, but I found it interesting to note that it was an oddball weight/formulation that they are all to happy to offer you for only $102 for the oil, filter, o-rings and washer:
[url=https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/ca/en/shop/parts_maintenance/xps_maintenance_products/start_up_oil_change_/xps-4t-5w-40-synthetic-blend-oil-change-kit-for-rotax-991-se5-en.html]https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/ca/en/shop/parts_maintenance/xps_maintenance_products/start_up_oil_change_/xps-4t-5w-40-synthetic-blend-oil-change-kit-for-rotax-991-se5-en.html
The o-ring and washer being worth about $0.30.
But them, just like Honda always recommend that you use their oils specifically, and invariably at a high premium. Note, no manufacturer can deny your warranty claims if you do not use their brand of oil as long as you provide proof you do the service. No matter, I am not the original owner of my 2014 that would not be under warranty anyway for those two reasons (not original and date). Our own Honda manual calls for three things:
a) JASO T 903 Standard MA
b) SAE standard 10W-30
c) API classification SG or higher.
They also specifically state ...."exclude oils marked Energy Conserving, or Resource Conserving". Just like I said. The main provision of MA is that it was designed for motorcycles that have their clutches bathed in the same oil as the engine. Excluding the friction modifiers inherent in the Mobil-1 I use lacking Energy Conserving, or Resource Conserving in the API symbol accomplishes that. There is nothing magical about the weight designation. I would be quite comfortable using the Mobil-1 20W-50 (without the Energy Conserving, or Resource Conserving), and I have. It does fine in normal temperatures and I will not ride at 0F. The SG designation has long ago been surpassed by higher standards. The Mobil-1 I use says it meets SN and SM on the back of the container; the latest specifications.
8). Yes, basically. But no matter which oil you put in, car, motorcycle, or Back-to-the-Future time machine Delorean, the shear properties will degrade over time. More so it you live always at redline, which no one is ever going to do, and/or operate in high temperatures (which apparently you do). What I will say is, it doesn't matter. What little degradation there COULD be, will be replaced at such a low interval that fresh is replacing it anyway back to the stock initial weight upon introducing it into the motor/trans. I will also say, I might be atypical of the average CB1100 buyer (yes typical in that I am approaching 60, have disposable income, and an affinity to vintage and retro), but am a sportbike guy at the core. So, to me, the performance potential of any machine means a lot to me. I will hit the rev limiter on my CB more than most, in all likelihood, but I still won't live there. I will boldly proclaim that the degradation over 3000 miles will be insignificant as to be rendered irrelevant (opinion).
Since I change my oil at ridiculously low intervals, using the cheapest possible oil there is, say Walmart Supertech 10W40 for only $2.75 (including tax), would probably be just fine, and the bike would likely outlive me. But to me, for only $8 more, I can do the full synthetic, so I do. I wipe my a$$ with $8 (that's four wipes: one 5 and three 1's), but if I was going to pay $102 per change, did it on my intervals (3K), over the course of 30K miles, that would be over $1K. That I would scoff at. My way, with Mobil-1 full synthetic and my reusable oil filter, it would cost only $200 in comparison. That is a lot of service money if something went wrong (which it never has).
