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Oil Change Time!
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08-30-2020, 12:35 AM
Not our first oil change thread is it?
http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread....#pid187490 Ended up with Castrol 10W40 pure synthetic for high ambient operation. 
08-30-2020, 12:55 AM
 LOL not hardly. Wonder if anyone's mind and methods have been changed
08-30-2020, 01:07 AM
(08-30-2020, 12:55 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Probably not. Forgot to mention that I used Honda oil filters at every change. I do not want to dampen Jambo's enthusiasm (although a Reader's Digest version would be easier to follow) but bypass valves have two purposes: 1. Already mentioned by Jambo, to allow oil flow to continue if the filter media becomes clogged. 2. To allow cold, relatively thick oil to flow upon cold starts. Without a bypass valve, oil flow could be reduced/impeded upon cold startup. 
08-30-2020, 01:48 AM
(08-30-2020, 01:07 AM)SportsterDoc_imp Wrote:(08-30-2020, 12:55 AM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Probably not. Forgot to mention that I used Honda oil filters at every change. I do not want to dampen Jambo's enthusiasm (although a Reader's Digest version would be easier to follow) but bypass valves have two purposes: 1. Already mentioned by Jambo, to allow oil flow to continue if the filter media becomes clogged. 2. To allow cold, relatively thick oil to flow upon cold starts. Without a bypass valve, oil flow could be reduced/impeded upon cold startup. One good thing about synthetic oil is even after you turn the motor off and let it sit an extended period of time, it will leave behind a film (dino too) of lubrication that should help limit wear on engine components. Some say, and it makes sense to me, that the first couple minutes of run time on a started motor can represent most of the wear accumulated, but also heat cycles and how long the motor is run. Most engines nowadays specify very low viscosity oils. The CB1100 says 10W30, but my Honda cars now spec 0W20. The first number relates to the viscosity when cold. Cold is a relative term. Maybe there are riders who brave subzero temperatures on occasions, but bet they're in the minority. Most riders aren't even going to start their bikes unless the bike is at least 40F (4.4C) and more likely still, at least 50F (10C). At those temperatures you are not going to notice much of a change in viscosity over 72F (22.2C). "The number preceding the “W” (winter) rates the oil’s flow (viscosity) at zero degrees Fahrenheit (-17.8 degrees Celsius)." The second number is the viscosity at 100C (boiling point of water). If the temperature scale we care about is -17.8C to 100C, which is 117.8C, then the difference between 50C and 72C is 22/117.8 is about a 19% change in temperature (and viscosity?). If that is a linear scale, then your 10W winter rating at -17.8C will look like 19W oil at 40C. Will the bypass kick in at 19W viscosity oil? I don't know, but doubt it. Will a bypass kick in with the oil at 10W viscosity at -17.8C/0F? I don't know. Will you start your engine at 0F?
08-30-2020, 02:31 AM
Not on my bike...
I've started cars at -7F At that temp the entire car feels stiff and unhappy. One of my cars takes 13 quarts- so even on just a reasonably chilly day, not even below freezing takes a LOOOOONG time to heat up, even at highway speed. The flip side is that once hot- it has a 'residual heat' function that runs the water pumps while the car is parked at say a restaurant or shopping to keep the fluid moving through the block to the heater core, back to the block- while running the climate control inside the car- you come back to a nice toasty car. If the available heat drops too low, it shuts itself off.
08-30-2020, 02:41 AM
(08-30-2020, 02:31 AM)PowerDubs_imp Wrote: Not on my bike... True. You can definitely tell when the car is cold and reluctant to start at such low temperatures. But if we are talking bikes and their oil/filters, I am unlikely to start mine much below 50F. I have been known to ride all the way up until Xmas, where I live in MD, temperature dependent. If it is 40F outside, I am unlikely to ride unless I miss it so much, but then it will be limited to a very short ride to just say I did. Getting older, if the temps now are below 50F, I am uninspired, though I have been known to ride between 40-50F. I get uninspired because of the hassle factor of layering up that much. That means the bike might sit from December to March. BTW, if I think I won't be riding that long, I would be inclined to fill the tank treated with Stabil. Nowadays with $hitty ethanol based fuels, even Stabil does not do the job it used to do, but with fuel injected bikes, they generally start right up if stabilized after three months of sitting. I will also charge the battery on a trickle charger at least once a month since the internal resistance of batteries might discharge it 1%/day. Other than that, I don't feel a need to start it during that time unless it magically warms enough I could take it out. So with bikes in mind, I am not going to start it below 50F, and claim a bypass is not going to be needed because the oil will never be thick enough for me to need it, at least based on temperature. And since I change oil often, I won't need it based on the filter clogging. Not to offend anyone, I am just saying to me I don't care about the bypass feature in a filter, all IMHO.
08-30-2020, 02:45 AM
Interesting reading Jambo but why do you use car oil and not motorcycle oil : is it just the cost or do you believe they are all the same , changing it often does not change the difference between the two types of oil . Just asking in earnest .
08-30-2020, 03:45 AM
(08-30-2020, 02:45 AM)Houtman_imp Wrote: Interesting reading Jambo but why do you use car oil and not motorcycle oil : is it just the cost or do you believe they are all the same , changing it often does not change the difference between the two types of oil . Just asking in earnest . It is a fair question to ask Houtman. For those who do not wish to read my dissertation, then YES, and YES. I think the most important feature of the (any) oil is the fact that it is full synthetic. It is well known that full synthetic oils perform better in terms of wear, reduced drag, provide very modest improvements in mpg, and out last regular dino juices in terms of breakdown over temperature. I might argue whether one vendor's formula is superior to another. Lots have. I would probably buy the generic Walmart Supertech full synthetic if you could get a flavor without the resource conserving. It is probably Mobil-1 that Walmart is sworn by contract to never divulge. I don't think the Waltons own any refineries. Perhaps there are additives that really do make a difference for a motor that can rev (not ours) to 14K rpm, and that also bathes the clutch plates. What those additives are, I don't know, and the manufacturers aren't going to say what their secret, proprietary sauces are. I would love to do a 100K mile scientific based comparison of two identical bikes, one with full synth car oil, and another with full synth motorcycle oil, followed by complete motor breakdown and SCEM imaging (electron microscope). I would be willing to bet there would be no discernible differences. Pure speculation. You could make a great argument at my very conservative oil change intervals, that just putting in the generic Supertech regular oil at $2.50/q is probably all you really need. Spending $4/q on Mobil-1 probably does not really make a difference unless you keep your bike until it has 2-300K miles on it. (I knew a guy who DID that, putting over 200K on his CBR1000RR in TWO years! As you can imagine, all he ever did was RIDE!). For me, I just FEEL like I am treating my bike better using full synthetic, and the cost delta is only about $6 difference from regular dino to synth. All else (filters) is a given and not an equation factor. BUT, the cost delta is 150% from full synthetic car oil (which they sell 1000 times more of) compared to bike oils. Full synthetic car oil is $4/q and bikes $10/q. If you compare to regular dino oil, the cost delta is $400%. To me, and some will say and I would not argue the point, my position (like a lot when it comes to the oil threads) is based on pure opinion with no supporting empirical evidence in terms of car vs. bike oils. I think that motorcyclists are a very loyal and devoted bunch. I think that oil manufacturers know this and can extract more from us due to our (sometimes emotional) devotion. I am of the opinion that it is likely more marketing than science. Since I change the oil so often, it is inconceivable to me that the higher revs of my Honda CB1100 are breaking down the full synthetic oil very much compared to my Honda Civic, and when you couple it with replacing it with fresh in such a short 3K mile interval, there is no noticeable breakdown difference between the two (CB1100 vs Civic). When I change the oil, it looks slightly browner than when it goes in, suggesting there was some temperature-based degradation and post-combustion contaminants (like acid), but it is so minor, I find myself wondering if I should reuse it elsewhere like the lawnmower. For both my beloved Honda bikes and Honda cars, I just go ahead and suffer the 1 hour expenditure of my time and $20 for the bike, and $30 for the car and put in fresh synthetic every 3K miles. I do this knowing full well it is total overkill. I don't think I would do this if I had to suffer through the hassle factor of having someone else do it for me and pay for that, mostly due to the time required to drop it off and pick it up (along with another required vehicle/driver). Since I do it myself, it takes me less time in comparison. The cost of me doing it vs. paying someone is about the same, except me doing it means I can use full synthetic for the cost of regular oil. When I say this, I am comparing the cost of car oil changes. My guess is I am saving a lot compared to bike oil changes, and getting synth, but don't know as I never pay someone to change the oil in my bike. BTW, the Honda Fit takes less motor oil (3.5q with filter change) than the CB1100 does. I can buy a six pack of Mobil-1 (M1-110A) filters that rank very well in the destructive inspection comparos, for $66 and $11 apiece shipped free. That means it only costs me less than $30 for that car (Fit) and slightly more for the Civic. What do people here pay at the dealership? I will guess it is $75-100 for an oil change. For a direct comparison given the SAME oil change 3K mile intervals (using OEM filters), then it would cost me about $990 to use car full synth oil and OEM Honda filters over the course of 100K miles (33 oil changes), vs $1650 for Honda full synth m/c oil and OEM filters doing it myself. That is a $660 difference. Using the PC Racing, maybe the difference would be almost $1K (assuming the filter would last that long...I don't know). You can buy a lot of motorcycling trips, gear, or farkles with the difference.
08-30-2020, 06:13 AM
Thank you for your detailed reply , yes I change the oil on my bikes myself and use Mobil 1 Synthetic MC 10/40 oil at $ 10 a quart at Walmart instead of $ 4 for car oil.
I change it ones year at about 4000-5000 miles and use an OEM filter. From what I have read over the years the additives in mc oils are different than in car oils. I just play it safe and pay a little more for peace of mind.
08-30-2020, 08:04 AM
InMy Moto Guzzi had a separate sump for the transmission and also had a dry clutch; but I did not use automotive oil to lubricate the engine for at least two reasons:
1. There are additives / detergents in automotive oils that may not be good for a motorcycle engine. 2. Automotive oils have less zddp. https://www.rymax-lubricants.com/blog/ca...cycle-oil/ Same with my Can-Am Ryker. It has a separate transmission sump for forward-reverse (ratios change by CVT) and no wet clutch. Also, 10W60, as specified for the Moto Guzzi and 10W50, as needed for the Ryker at temps above 104 F may be difficult to find an automotive oils. As for 0W20 or even 5W20 oils, there are many automotive manufacturers having serious oil consumption issues with their engines for which of these weight of oils have been specified. Changing oil on an air-cooled motorcycle at 3,000 miles can be beneficial. Using pure synthetic oil is most likely beneficial. Using oil filter without a bypass valve is questionable. Using automotive oil to save a few dollars may be costly in the long run. |
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