Three in three. RIP.

[LongRanger_imp]

Yep. I completely agree.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

ABS wheels shouldn't lock up and skid hence the name ANTI-LOCK. When the system senses a wheel lock up, it releases and grabs again. and continues that cyle until the wheel stops spinning. If you are on a slick surface you can usually feel it cycling wham-wham-wham-wham, especially in your car.

However ABS equipped vehicles still take a certain amount of distance to stop, and it may be longer than someone who is an expert and knows what they are doing after much track time (Like Ulve).

But for common folk, the normal instinct is to stomp (car) or grab and stomp (motorcycle) the brakes in which case for THAT person ABS is a great idea.

I like to give this example. You come around a curve, you are travelling 60 mph, and there is a car stopped in the road ahead. Oh crap ...............

A bike without ABS may stop in (example) 260 feet with an expert rider that knows what he is doing (like Ulve with lots of track time).

A bike equipped with ABS may stop in 275 feet, whether you know what you are doing or not, because that's what it is designed to do. It takes a little longer to stop, but you don't have to be an expert to use it.

A bike without ABS may take 300 feet, or it may skid and low side, or skid and highside if you are not an expert and don't know what you are doing.

Now if that stopped car is 240 feet away, even the guy that knows what he is doing, without ABS, is going to hit the car ..BAM! (Because at 60 mph it takes him 260 feet to stop and he doesn't have that much room, he's needs another 20 feet).

So too is the guy with ABS whether he knows what he is doing or not. BAM! (because it takes him 275 feet to stop)

Who knows what is going to happen with the guy without ABS, that is not an expert, and doesn't know what he is doing (it's a crap shoot, but chances are high that he is either going to crash before he gets to the car or just hit the car). SCRAAAAPE...BAM!

Now if the car is 280 feet away BOTH the guy that knows what he is doing and the guy with the ABS that may, or may not know what they are doing, are going to stop safely (because they can stop in 275 feet or less). WHEW!

But the guy wthout ABS, that is not an expert and doesn't know what he is doing, is going to grab the front brake and stomp the rear brake, lock up both wheels and skid. A skidding motorcycle takes a long time to stop, much longer than the ABS equipped bike or the bike with the rider that knows exactly what he is doing (even if the rider manages to keep it on both wheels). A skidding motorcycle is an out of control motorcycle, usually out of shape and at the mercy of no traction. In all likelyhood he is going to hit the back end of the car. UUUURRRRRR.....BAM!

If the car is 265 feet away, the expert without ABS is going to get his bike stopped safely with 5 feet to spare, while the guy with ABS that may or may not know what he is doing is still going to hit the car ..BAM! (because the expert stops in 260 feet but the ABS takes a little further, 275 feet).

The question people have to ask themselves, and answer honestly is, do they they have the skill and mental acuity, to stop the motorcycle properly before it starts skidding. If the answer is no...you should probably have ABS.

Throw in rain/wet roads, sand, antifreeze, ice, whatever in the mix and the situation changes. It takes a certain and rare skill set to handle those issues properly in which case MOST people would be better off with ABS. In fact if you are not an expert and don't have a lot of track time, you are almost always better off with ABS when you encounter an emergency stopping situation. IMO

still may not save your bacon, but for most it's the best shot they have.

Agree completely.

And lastly, I still see a lot of street riders poo-pooing ABS because they think they’re skilled enough not to need it. Trust me, you will not be able to panic stop as quickly as these systems on a cold rainy day with wet brake pads and cold tires — period.

-Kent Kunitsugu, Sport Rider

We've heard a lot of people claim that they can out brake an ABS bike on a level playing field and therefore don't need to spend the extra cost for this feature. We don't dispute that if the road is dry and traction-rich, and the rider is skilled. But the roads on which we ride are far from level and there are many variables that no test situation can simulate.

-Brian Hatano, superstreetbike.com

I think the test EmptySea is recalling may be [url=http://www.superstreetbike.com/features/mythbusters-abs-equipped-bike-good-rider-doesnt-need-abs]this one.

All us elderly riders learned without any kind of ABS and some of us, I am sure, did a lot of dirt riding, myself included. I, like many, rode in all kinds of road conditions, gravel, sand, snow, rain, and so on. One learns to adjust braking forces to match road and weather conditions.

My version of ABS today is to NEVER ride in those conditions. Ninety-nine percent of my riding is in nice weather on dry roads. I just feel like I've "been there, done that" when it comes to those grueling, "Press On Regardless" rides.

Obviously that's not going to suit most riders so for sure, ABS is something they should want and need. I have one bike with ABS, it's always off, but if I was riding in poor conditions of traction I would absolutely turn it on.

For the racetrack most sportbikes give you an option to turn it off; Kawasaki has a "dongle" you plug in which allows it to be disabled. Some require a race ECU to be installed, and so on.

To be clear, my stand on this is to get it if you plan on riding in the real world. Better to have it and not need it. But don't expect it to think for you, the best it can do is to react.

[the Ferret]

Ahh.. Another ABS discussion. LOL My only disagreement with The Ferret is that he gives too much credit to the skilled rider. I read a comparison test (or saw a youtube video) a couple of years ago where a professional rider tested an ABS bike and a non-ABS bike in wet and dry conditions. If I recall, the rider stopped the non-ABS bike faster than the ABS bike 2 of 6 times on dry pavement, but 0 out of 6 times on wet pavement. I forget the starting speed, but it wasn't 60...probably more like 25mph. One could argue that the longer the distance on dry pavement, the better the odds that the expert rider on a non-ABS bike will stop faster. In the end, though, darn few of us have the skill or the reflexes to bring a non-ABS bike to a controlled stop faster than an ABS bike.

Well yea, we are not disagreeing at all Sea. That's what the word "MAY" was in there for, and the caveat at the bottom about the wet roads etc being all bets off. The skilled rider "may" be able to stop quicker without ABS, then again he may not, even in perfect conditions. There is a razor thin line between maximum stopping power and skidding. Razor thin. Most cannot walk that line. I have, and I have also failed at it. No guarantees. ABS fattens up that line considerably for us mere mortals. I have it on my DLX.

[emptysea]

I have ABS ... "Always Be Sliding" on my bike.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I have ABS ... "Always Be Sliding" on my bike.

OK, I will give you kudos for that one. Have not heard it before.

Ahh.. Another ABS discussion. LOL My only disagreement with The Ferret is that he gives too much credit to the skilled rider. I read a comparison test (or saw a youtube video) a couple of years ago where a professional rider tested an ABS bike and a non-ABS bike in wet and dry conditions. If I recall, the rider stopped the non-ABS bike faster than the ABS bike 2 of 6 times on dry pavement, but 0 out of 6 times on wet pavement. I forget the starting speed, but it wasn't 60...probably more like 25mph. One could argue that the longer the distance on dry pavement, the better the odds that the expert rider on a non-ABS bike will stop faster. In the end, though, darn few of us have the skill or the reflexes to bring a non-ABS bike to a controlled stop faster than an ABS bike.

Well yea, we are not disagreeing at all Sea. That's what the word "MAY" was in there for, and the caveat at the bottom about the wet roads etc being all bets off. The skilled rider "may" be able to stop quicker without ABS, then again he may not, even in perfect conditions. There is a razor thin line between maximum stopping power and skidding. Razor thin. Most cannot walk that line. I have, and I have also failed at it. No guarantees. ABS fattens up that line considerably for us mere mortals. I have it on my DLX.

So much also depends on the quality of the ABS. Many kick in way too soon. I think the new ZX-10R - with cornering ABS and a six-axis IMU - has one of the best available, as far as providing great feel and modulation it is very close to "expert" level. Don't know about the new R1 but suspect it's pretty good, too. For sure the yeoman's motorcycle is not gonna get that kind of software and hardware. My BMW F800GS has decent ABS but it just kicks in much sooner than it should on dry pavement. Pretty coarse specifications, cheap ECU, etcetera.

As far as too much credit to the skilled rider, the thing about any rider regardless of skill is the rider can have an off day; the ABS in theory is always on the job.

[Carguy1959_imp]

I ride my bike daily to work during rush hour., mostly interstate. If I don't maintain a speed of at least 80, I run the risk of getting run over.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I ride my bike daily to work during rush hour., mostly interstate. If I don't maintain a speed of at least 80, I run the risk of getting run over.

That's my story. Retired so my commute is my ride. There is always some motorist who wants to make his (or very often HER) commute an opportunity to show YOU who's boss. Then, no matter how many lane changes you make to get clear, sure enough, THERE SHE IS again in your mirror, on top of you. Problem is these drivers have no skill and now they've decided that getting to work is secondary to showing you what's what.

There is a certain part of a loop I ride, which includes about 140 miles of freeway, I call the "Gauntlet". I cannot slow down and blend in with traffic, that is asking to get run down.

The last two days I did my "loop" and on that section, I was running over 90 mph for about 30 minutes to get clear. Sometimes faster. And this is on the CB1100, not the ZX-10R.

It's only a few drivers, 99 percent are fine. But those few just fixate on showing you who's boss.

Lollygagging on the freeway is asking for trouble.

It's a very different world out there for many of us riders, who don't live in a lovely, serene, pastoral environment with a lightly-traveled, winding road at the end of our driveway.

[ClassicVW_imp]

I don't think it's smart to run over 90 for 30 minutes just to "get clear". Why not run at 70 and let those dummies be 10 miles ahead of you?

[Ulvetanna_imp]

I don't think it's smart to run over 90 for 30 minutes just to "get clear". Why not run at 70 and let those dummies be 10 miles ahead of you?

I ride my bike daily to work during rush hour., mostly interstate. If I don't maintain a speed of at least 80, I run the risk of getting run over.

What he said. It's war out there. You are gonna get knocked down. People are not paying attention, changing lanes (ask Randy B), texting, putting on makeup, screaming at their kids. If I am going slightly faster than traffic I have less to worry about in my mirrors.

It's part of motorcycling life where I live. Do otherwise, is to be a speed bump.

[ClassicVW_imp]

Same here in NJ. Most congested roads anywhere, and potholes you could make into a foxhole. But if I had to do 90 I'd find another route to get where I'm going. Not safe to do 90 in heavy traffic, even if they're all doing 80.
A driver doing all those things is unsafe at 40 MPH, I'm not playing with them doing 80 or 90.
THEY will not dictate to me how fast I go.