Here's what's in my garage for 2018

[Flytech99_imp]

Ulvetanna Wrote:The real fix is to get a '17 EX. Yes, the EX forks and shock will help some, but they are calibrated to work with the chassis of the EX, and I think the overall package is going to work much better than tossing $1500 at the Deluxe.

I honestly don't think the first generation CB1100 is going to have the ride or handling the later model has. If you are making these observations now, chasing fixes probably won't work.
Good point. The chassis are slightly different, though I don't think the difference extends beyond the different width and location of the upper fork brace. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Honda altered the rake or trail or anything else with the frame on the '17 EX, compared to the previous models.

I suspect that a suspension swap to the '17 EX's components will result in significant improvement; perhaps not identical to the '17, but close enough.

Good point. The chassis are slightly different, though I don't think the difference extends beyond the different width and location of the upper fork brace. I could be wrong, but I don't believe Honda altered the rake or trail or anything else with the frame on the '17 EX, compared to the previous models.

I suspect that a suspension swap to the '17 EX's components will result in significant improvement; perhaps not identical to the '17, but close enough. I bet the powertrain changes helped. I understand some modifications were done to the ECU, subtle changes in timing, fueling to change the feel. The whole package is really massaged all the way through.

Your take on the '14 was that it was rather crude; agreed, that's why I felt I couldn't really get what I wanted from the '13. Someone looking for really sorted handling and the kind of throttle performance I was seeking is not gonna get that from the first generation.

This forum is littered with the memories of highly-modified, but sold-for-a-song first-generation CB1100s. Some guys poured tens of thousands of dollars into their machines and still ended up selling them. I been around here, lurking, visiting since 2013.

There was [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=9168]Motogeezer's bike, a real beauty, highly-modded. Just one example. I can think of one other, can't recall the member's handle, he'd done the bike up real nice with Ohlins shocks, all kinds of stuff. Then he sold it.

And so on.

Having worked on my '13 for four years, and still never getting it right, I think the whole package from the 2017 onward is needed to really get the bike to work as a seamless unit, for those who like to push the envelope and ride in a sporting fashion.

I don't know of a single attempt that's been really successful with respect to the earlier version.

I haven't managed to get to a dealer to take another look at that '17, which is a beauty, but I can say that the '13 whetted my appetite for more. I think your ride report, on the 2017, will be quite different than the 2014.

I think some of these observations are subjective. Owners/riders spending gobs of cash to customize and/or personalize their motorcycle isn't necessarily an indication the bike is incompetent. I think it has more to do with preference, personal taste, varying riding styles, unrealistic expectations and chasing unattainable goals... which may also be the nature of motorcycle owners in general and not just a CB1100 thing, lol.

In defense of the CB1100, I'll say this.... If aggressive sporty riding is your main goal, the CB probably isn't the bike for you. Weight, brakes, suspension, tires, etc. all contribute to this limitation. Personally, I try to "improve" everything I drive or ride.... That's not just limited to performance, but has more to do with improving the driving or riding experience. Thus, I believe the CB is an excellent build platform for that approach.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

The 2017 bar clamp position got moved farther forward of the stem centerline.
So, in addition to opening up the cockpit larger for taller riders, does this change do anything else, like changing steering input and/or steering effort goes?

ps, the '17 pinch bolt got relocated to the back vs '13/14 front.

You better know it!

Offset is a big factor in stability and handling, and while I didn't specifically recall the details, I felt there had been more than just the forks changed.

Not only the forks, but triple clamps, too.

But...the frame and swingers are different part numbers. That's HUGE. Subtle differences in rake, trail, wheelbase, and swingarm pivot to countershaft make BIG differences in handling.

I am glad you brought this up. The fact that not only are the forks and shocks different, but the entire frame/swingarm assembly, means Honda did a very major massage to the bike to improve handling. It was obviously a comprehensive and integrated approach.

VLJ commented that the 2017 seemed to have no driveline lash to speak of. Every bike has some driveline lash, of course, but the CB1100 does have significant lash compared to many other bikes. Not problematic, but there. Heavy flywheel, drivetrain, large-displacement engine, no throttle-by-wire nor secondary butterflies means it is all in the wrist.

I am guessing that VLJ has a pretty well-trained wrist and if he states the new bike has no issue regarding driveline lash, I speculate that some of the issue has been ameliorated by the changes in the swingarm and frame.

[VLJ_imp]

Ulvetanna Wrote:I am guessing that VLJ has a pretty well-trained wrist
So many jokes ready-made there, and I'm counting on you miscreants to resist the temptation.

[ohiorider_imp]

Let me clarify my position. I've been riding motorcycles and motorbikes since 1960. My first bike (that I owned)was a 1963 BSA Spitfire Scrambler. I didn't know any better, so I rode this bike from Charleston, West Virginia almost to Brownsville Texas and back home in August, 1966. But remember, I was 23, not 75 at the time.

Let me clarify: I am not a track day rider. I am not a canyon racer.

All I expect of a 500 pound bike that looks like it was designed to be a daily rider, a do it all machine ...... is to be just that.

With front suspension that doesn't destroy wrists, and rear suspension that doesn't catapult the rider off the seat.

I have logged over 500,000 miles on motorcycles.

In my wildest dreams, I never expected the CB1100 to be a harsh riding machine. I guess I was beguiled by the standard appearance of the bike. And I thought Honda would market this bike as a standard that took on standard tasks, including roads that weren't A++ in smoothness.

They didn't, and I'm disappointed.

That's it for me.

Bob

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Let me clarify my position. I've been riding motorcycles and motorbikes since 1960. My first bike (that I owned)was a 1963 BSA Spitfire Scrambler. I didn't know any better, so I rode this bike from Charleston, West Virginia almost to Brownsville Texas and back home in August, 1966. But remember, I was 23, not 75 at the time.

Let me clarify: I am not a track day rider. I am not a canyon racer.

All I expect of a 500 pound bike that looks like it was designed to be a daily rider, a do it all machine ...... is to be just that.

With front suspension that doesn't destroy wrists, and rear suspension that doesn't catapult the rider off the seat.

I have logged over 500,000 miles on motorcycles.

In my wildest dreams, I never expected the CB1100 to be a harsh riding machine. I guess I was beguiled by the standard appearance of the bike. And I thought Honda would market this bike as a standard that took on standard tasks, including roads that weren't A++ in smoothness.

They didn't, and I'm disappointed.

That's it for me.

Bob

First off, I THANK you for clarifying your experience. Makes it a lot easier to see where you are coming from here an avoid assumptions about how perhaps I somehow know more about riding than you do. Unlikely.

At any rate, Bob, welcome to the club. That's exactly why I traded my 2013 Standard for something else a little over a year ago. And I replaced the shocks, handlebars, and changed to a thicker fork oil. For the sporting rider or someone who rides the bike a little harder than status quo, it does not quite meet the needs in the first iteration.

I speculate the second generation is going to be excellent.

Did you not read my much-loved, greatly-appreciated [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10017]"Sayonara to the CB1100, with an Exit Interview?" Those same concerns, along with regrets, were poignantly noted; with the stoicism of a Spartan, the philosophical insight of a Plato, and even-tempered acceptance of a Confucius, I finally had to let it go.



I am now eyeing a 2017 EX very critically; but, with a sense of pure objectivity, aloof and keenly analytical, like a German philosopher, I will eventually make the right decision.

"Okay, enough of that BS..."

-Bill Paxton's character in Titanic after spouting a lot of pseudo-romantic nonsense.

[Cormanus]

Ulvetanna Wrote:I am guessing that VLJ has a pretty well-trained wrist
So many jokes ready-made there, and I'm counting on you miscreants to resist the temptation.

So many jokes ready-made there, and I'm counting on you miscreants to resist the temptation.
Yes. Please resist. It’s such a bore having to delete posts.

[cookiemech]

Let me clarify my position. I've been riding motorcycles and motorbikes since 1960. My first bike (that I owned)was a 1963 BSA Spitfire Scrambler. I didn't know any better, so I rode this bike from Charleston, West Virginia almost to Brownsville Texas and back home in August, 1966. But remember, I was 23, not 75 at the time.

Let me clarify: I am not a track day rider. I am not a canyon racer.

All I expect of a 500 pound bike that looks like it was designed to be a daily rider, a do it all machine ...... is to be just that.

With front suspension that doesn't destroy wrists, and rear suspension that doesn't catapult the rider off the seat.

I have logged over 500,000 miles on motorcycles.

In my wildest dreams, I never expected the CB1100 to be a harsh riding machine. I guess I was beguiled by the standard appearance of the bike. And I thought Honda would market this bike as a standard that took on standard tasks, including roads that weren't A++ in smoothness.

They didn't, and I'm disappointed.

That's it for me.

Bob

Bob - Very sorry to hear it's not working out for you . . . I followed your interest and then purchase of that bike on the OTHER forum we both frequent (are we allowed to mention other forums here?). In fact, a guy named Bob with both Guzzi and BMW interests picking up a CB1100 was a factor in me ordering one a couple of weeks ago. I'm selling my Guzzi and replacing it with the CB1100; the Guzzi is beautiful, but just never turned me on in any way. Haven't had a Honda since about 1981, so thought it's time.

I'm a bit younger (61), but with a similar number of miles in my experience. Hopefully the changes they've made on the 2017 model will improve ride quality; maybe I won't know the difference. My two old K bikes ride and handle well, but are a bit harsh on the busted Pennsylvania roads. My Harleys are absolutely stellar in ride quality (well, 823 and 929 pounds in wet weights helps). My KLR (2009, totally stock) works well with all that suspension travel.

Guess if you can't find satisfaction it's better to dump it. Life's too short . . .

[PowerDubs_imp]

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


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[Ulvetanna_imp]

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


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Not difficult but expensive. Damping must behave differently at high and low speed. Also having separate compression/rebound damping adjustments and hi/lo speed circuits. Springs must be designed correctly, much more meticulously. Materials, thickness, rates, coil spacing. The bike that feels overly firm on the showroom floor will probably ride with more comfort and compliance than the one that feels like a pogo stick. Dynamics of weight, velocity, impact of bumps.

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


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I really think the "Don't know, it just goes" philosophy is very often the best.

I’ll agree the earlier bike is a bit harsh on hard impacts.

I’d imagine it is difficult to design ‘soft’ enough to move quickly and absorb in such cases but not be mush when rode aggressively.

(see brake dive into turns mentioned above somewhere)

And not even taking weight differences into factor.

That being said, I wonder if we all wouldn’t be surprised if we could get off our CB and onto whatever our favorite older bike was from decades ago.

All I can tell you from my first hand experience is I put the 2017 forks on my bike and it is much more comfortable to me.

So much so that I then became critical of the rear and put Koni shocks on. Again a noticeable improvement- even the wife acknowledges.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean Ikons, no?

[PowerDubs_imp]

Ikons are Koni. I thought that was well known?

KONI made motorcycle shock absorbers from 1967 which were imported into Australia by Proven Products Pty Ltd.

Koni decided to close it’s production of motorcycle shock absorbers in 2000.

This decision lead to a special licence agreement being struck between Proven and Koni allowing Proven to make the motorcycle shocks under its own name for the worldwide market- Ikon


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