'17 EX tank design

[the Ferret]

Nicely played W/R

I'd probably change a couple things on my DLX but very minor. I love black bikes with silver motors and wheels so I would go with black paint, no stripes on existing tank and side covers (although I can certainly live with the beautiful red I have now). I also would like the larger turn signals off the 13 model. Other than that don't think I would change anything else.

[pdedse]

This forum would be the last place Honda's marketing department would poll: it is populated by owners, the vast majority of which own pre-17 bikes, which means their stated preferences about tank shape would be colored by already owning another tank shape and not wanting to think about what owning the new tank shape would entail, financially and psychologically. Which it to say, we might be expected to be a statistical group particularly resistant to its charms. Pre-17 owners have already voted with their wallets (though of course they voted for things besides a tank), have gotten used to their choice (or would have traded it in by now for a Triumph), and confirmational bias suggests they will now want to defend that commitment, except for those few who joined the two bike club. Honda would be unwise to build any kind of business plan on that latter demographic.

A valid point, but the "last place"? Not if I were on the marketing team for this bike, if a marketing team for the CB1100 even exists! : )

I think they (whoever that might be) are in fact interested in mc forums and what owners have to say about their products both before a particular change is made and after. As VLJ has pointed out in his in-depth reviews, the '17EX underwent substantial changes. What motivated the design people to carry these out? Do they rely on motorcycle journalists' opinions? Do they read mc forums? Do they have their own unbiased mc testers? Do they primarily consider the Asian / European market feedback and the U.S. is an afterthought?

I'd love to be sitting in the room where they decide how real changes are made from one model year to the next.

[the Ferret]

This forum would be the last place Honda's marketing department would poll: it is populated by owners, the vast majority of which own pre-17 bikes, which means their stated preferences about tank shape would be colored by already owning another tank shape and not wanting to think about what owning the new tank shape would entail, financially and psychologically. Which it to say, we might be expected to be a statistical group particularly resistant to its charms. Pre-17 owners have already voted with their wallets (though of course they voted for things besides a tank), have gotten used to their choice (or would have traded it in by now for a Triumph), and confirmational bias suggests they will now want to defend that commitment, except for those few who joined the two bike club. Honda would be unwise to build any kind of business plan on that latter demographic.

A valid point, but the "last place"? Not if I were on the marketing team for this bike, if a marketing team for the CB1100 even exists! : )

I think they (whoever that might be) are in fact interested in mc forums and what owners have to say about their products both before a particular change is made and after. As VLJ has pointed out in his in-depth reviews, the '17EX underwent substantial changes. What motivated the design people to carry these out? Do they rely on motorcycle journalists' opinions? Do they read mc forums? Do they have their own unbiased mc testers? Do they primarily consider the Asian / European market feedback and the U.S. is an afterthought?

I'd love to be sitting in the room where they decide how real changes are made from one model year to the next.

It would be interesting to know. I'd like to be sitting there too, only not sure I could keep my mouth shut

Ok now I'm going for a ride. Be back later to catch up.

[Frulk_imp]

Ferret. I’m begging you. We need a dead horse emoji ASAP!

[baxtercat_imp]

This forum would be the last place Honda's marketing department would poll: it is populated by owners, the vast majority of which own pre-17 bikes, which means their stated preferences about tank shape would be colored by already owning another tank shape and not wanting to think about what owning the new tank shape would entail, financially and psychologically. Which it to say, we might be expected to be a statistical group particularly resistant to its charms. Pre-17 owners have already voted with their wallets (though of course they voted for things besides a tank), have gotten used to their choice (or would have traded it in by now for a Triumph), and confirmational bias suggests they will now want to defend that commitment, except for those few who joined the two bike club. Honda would be unwise to build any kind of business plan on that latter demographic.

A valid point, but the "last place"? Not if I were on the marketing team for this bike, if a marketing team for the CB1100 even exists! : )

I think they (whoever that might be) are in fact interested in mc forums and what owners have to say about their products both before a particular change is made and after. As VLJ has pointed out in his in-depth reviews, the '17EX underwent substantial changes. What motivated the design people to carry these out? Do they rely on motorcycle journalists' opinions? Do they read mc forums? Do they have their own unbiased mc testers? Do they primarily consider the Asian / European market feedback and the U.S. is an afterthought?

I'd love to be sitting in the room where they decide how real changes are made from one model year to the next.

A valid point, but the "last place"? Not if I were on the marketing team for this bike, if a marketing team for the CB1100 even exists! : )

I think they (whoever that might be) are in fact interested in mc forums and what owners have to say about their products both before a particular change is made and after. As VLJ has pointed out in his in-depth reviews, the '17EX underwent substantial changes. What motivated the design people to carry these out? Do they rely on motorcycle journalists' opinions? Do they read mc forums? Do they have their own unbiased mc testers? Do they primarily consider the Asian / European market feedback and the U.S. is an afterthought?

I'd love to be sitting in the room where they decide how real changes are made from one model year to the next. perhaps. but more than present owners' opinions, the Honda execs are interested in selling bikes. just count the number of '17 owners here who traded in a pre-'17 to get it, and I think you'll agree that does not represent a sizable block of buyers. (does include me btw.) the earlier bikes are too good and still too new, and market for them largely satisfied, to think that there would any kind of real potential for buyers among existing owners. If they were going after anything, it is potential R9T buyers or Z900RS buyers. they will be interested in forum members' opinions only insofar that they can improve their bikes and make the new ones competitive in the marketplace for mostly non-owners.

[LongRanger_imp]

I disagree. Based on the CB's original design spec, I can't imagine chasing prospective RNineT or Z900RS owners would be logical. A prospective T120, V7, or Sportster customer would probably represent a more similar target demographic (attracted to brand heritage, more interested in a bike's character than its outright performance). The BMW and Kawi seem too contemporary and not as "authentic."

[baxtercat_imp]

fair enough. the moto magazines tend to put it into comparison tests with the BMW and the Triumph--not so much the Sporty or V7--which suggests those are the bikes they see as its potential alternatives. I've not seen a comparison with the Kawa, either because, as you say, different buyer demographics, or because it's still too early for such a test to have appeared. in any case, we seem to agree on the larger point, which is that it is competition with other manufacturers' bikes that is on Honda's mind, and less the tastes of present CB owners. the poll is fun--in the way that arguing over vodka vs gin martinis is fun, as Ferret so deftly illustrates for us--but it isn't likely to arrive at meaningful data about anything. [insert dead horse emoji here.]

[VLJ_imp]

pdedse, in regards to whether Honda's product planners listen to the motojournos and forum comments, the one item about which we can be certain they took to heart was the oft-repeated criticism of the previous models' seamed tank. For the 2017 model Honda specifically addressed this complaint, touting in no uncertain terms the upgrade to an all-new seamless tank.

They listened. They responded.

I think it's safe to say that the creation of the RS model was a similar attempt to answer all those requests from the peanut gallery for a sportier CB. Unfortunately, Honda proved willing only to dip a toe in that particular pond. They didn't step up and definitively answer the criticism with a significantly lighter, more powerful, much sportier model. Instead, they simply gave their new "sportier" model smaller wheels and a few suspension/brake upgrades, and called it a day.

[LongRanger_imp]

fair enough. the moto magazines tend to put it into comparison tests with the BMW and the Triumph--not so much the Sporty or V7--which suggests those are the bikes they see as its potential alternatives. I've not seen a comparison with the Kawa, either because, as you say, different buyer demographics, or because it's still too early for such a test to have appeared. in any case, we seem to agree on the larger point, which is that it is competition with other manufacturers' bikes that is on Honda's mind, and less the tastes of present CB owners. the poll is fun--in the way that arguing over vodka vs gin martinis is fun, as Ferret so deftly illustrates for us--but it isn't likely to arrive at meaningful data about anything. [insert dead horse emoji here.]

No question -- I completely agree with you. And then they quickly extol the virtues of the BMW's superior torque and handling, which to me is kinda missing the point. These head-to-head reviews typically conclude with, "why did Honda only give the CB 85 hp? Certainly this mill could pump out 100-110 hp." I'm not convinced that's the customer Honda is trying to attract.

[VLJ_imp]

But it ought to be, along with the much smaller audience it already attracts. It's not an either/or situation. Honda could easily attract both types of customers.