Kevin Cameron mixes alcohol and politics

[Ulvetanna_imp]

[url=http://www.cycleworld.com/ethanol-in-motor-gasoline-kevin-cameron-top-dead-center]Yet another plaint on ethanol, scourge of the IC universe.

By the end of this diatribe he is blaming corn growers for starting worldwide riots.

Now that's great journalism.

[kballowe_imp]

WARNING: RANDOM THOUGHTS FOLLOW........

It appears that Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) provides huge quantities of "grain neutral ethyl alcohol" to the "spirits" industries. Vodka bottlers, in particular - since (by law) vodka is 40% alcohol and 60% water.

Blended whisky bottlers also buy large quantities of their ethyl alcohol.

Most of the rice crop in the USA goes into beer production.

Brazil grows a lot of sugarcane. What to do with all that sugarcane? I KNOW !!! Let's mandate 25% alcohol in the gasoline mix.
I'm thinking that Brazil pioneered a lot of the research and technology for materials that play well with alcohol.

Next random thought, please........

[CB4ME_imp]

Recent political shifts may end the threat of E15 gas at least as a national mandate.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

WARNING: RANDOM THOUGHTS FOLLOW........

It appears that Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) provides huge quantities of "grain neutral ethyl alcohol" to the "spirits" industries. Vodka bottlers, in particular - since (by law) vodka is 40% alcohol and 60% water.

Blended whisky bottlers also buy large quantities of their ethyl alcohol.

Most of the rice crop in the USA goes into beer production.

Brazil grows a lot of sugarcane. What to do with all that sugarcane? I KNOW !!! Let's mandate 25% alcohol in the gasoline mix.
I'm thinking that Brazil pioneered a lot of the research and technology for materials that play well with alcohol.

Next random thought, please........

You think right. That is exactly what happened. Brazil started this bandwagon, whose time has come and gone. With oil reserves burgeoning (that's a journalist word) and prices tanking (another journo pun), no one needs more ethanol for IC fuel.

On the other hand, Cameron's suggestion that using that extra corn for ethanol instead of for food raises food prices is absurd in the extreme. A preposterous leap.

There is no "extra" corn. Corn syrup was foisted onto the market by corn growers some decades back, as a replacement for sugar. The corn industry, like any industry, is always seeking new markets. Nothing wrong with that. If ethanol can be a market, so be it. But we don't need ethanol any longer, with fossil fuels plentiful and ever-greater efficiencies in cars and trucks.

I own two E85 "Flex-fuel" vehicles and have never put a drop of E85 in either. It's impossible to find; it would cost me a tank of fuel to visit the nearest Flexfuel station, and it's less efficient and more costly. Why would I do something like seek E85 under those circumstances? It would be stupid.

But, this article did get me thinking my Sym Wolf Classic 150 probably doesn't like ethanol much. Could be wrong, I don't know what kind of fuel they use in Taiwan. It may be just fine. E10 should be np.

As a final word, I think KC is imbibing of the finer spirits at times, perhaps just prior to writing this piece. Maybe?

The thing is, he covers no new ground, none at all. Nick Ienatsch's article was very helpful, KC's, not so much. Not at all, really.

Recent political shifts may end the threat of E15 gas at least as a national mandate.

Ya think?! Probably put the whole concept away for good. Now KC can feel good about more cornmeal for the poor people. "Let them eat cornbread, I say."

[Cormanus]

Recent political shifts may end the threat of E15 gas at least as a national mandate.

I'll watch that one with some interest. It may equally well go the other way.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Recent political shifts may end the threat of E15 gas at least as a national mandate.

I'll watch that one with some interest. It may equally well go the other way.

I'll watch that one with some interest. It may equally well go the other way. Not normally a betting man, what are the odds? Are you talking UK? Don't know about the EU or UK but for the USA, E is not the answer. Those drivers really wanting to make an impact (journo pun intended) on the use of fossil fuels and emissions will buy a Leaf, Tesla, Prius, or one of many available hybrids. Lexus, Toyota, GM and other auto makers have several models of SUV, up to the Tahoe/Suburban level, that are hybrids and/or Flexfuel compliant.

National sentiment has turned quite solidly against wind power, solar power, and ethanol as being any kind of help long-term.

Then again USA can grow lots and lots of corn, make the ethanol, and ship it to y'all "over there". A world market for corn likker.

Hey, that must be what Kevin was sipping, just a few belts of corn likker to take the edge off!

[Ulvetanna_imp]

The article is really pretty inaccurate and alarmist.

Seals can be had today which will work with both ethanol and gasoline, the Flexfuel vehicles use them. There is no difficulty designing and building a vehicle that needs them.

But we won't be building those cars anyway, not in the USA, not now, not beyond E10. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil]Brazil has been doing it for years, though. They've been making cars that will run on any blend up to E100 since 2007 and have been using E as a fuel since around 1930.

This article is really quite haphazard. When I started reading Cameron in 1983 such was not the case.

[Capo]

[url=http://www.cycleworld.com/ethanol-in-motor-gasoline-kevin-cameron-top-dead-center]Yet another plaint on ethanol, scourge of the IC universe.

By the end of this diatribe he is blaming corn growers for starting worldwide riots.

Now that's great journalism.

No he's not. You're projecting. He's asking a question based on what both sides of the controversy are saying. Note the 'Still others see...' phrase and the perspectives of the two camps. He is not opining. Show me here where he's blaming anyone:

"You get the picture. Environmentalists are delighted at this use of corn because it satisfies their desire to see renewable energy sources replace fossil sources. The petroleum industry sees a gallon of fuel ethanol as 2/3 of a gallon of gasoline they don’t sell. A factory farming organization will naturally seek to increase the percentage of ethanol in motor gasoline. Think of being a Congressperson, deafened by the roar of all this lobbying. Is there any such thing as “right”? Or has right come to mean “what I want” while wrong means “what my opponents want”? Still others see conversion of corn to ethanol as the institutionalizing of hunger in the form of “burning food.” Could it be, as claimed by some big-picture pundits, that the world-wide rise in food prices in part cause by conversion of corn to ethanol led to the social unrest and revolutions now referred-to as “Arab Spring”? It’s giving me a headache."

[Ulvetanna_imp]

[url=http://www.cycleworld.com/ethanol-in-motor-gasoline-kevin-cameron-top-dead-center]Yet another plaint on ethanol, scourge of the IC universe.

By the end of this diatribe he is blaming corn growers for starting worldwide riots.

Now that's great journalism.

No he's not. You're projecting. He's asking a question based on what both sides of the controversy are saying. Note the 'Still others see...' phrase and the perspectives of the two camps. He is not opining. Show me here where he's blaming anyone:

"You get the picture. Environmentalists are delighted at this use of corn because it satisfies their desire to see renewable energy sources replace fossil sources. The petroleum industry sees a gallon of fuel ethanol as 2/3 of a gallon of gasoline they don’t sell. A factory farming organization will naturally seek to increase the percentage of ethanol in motor gasoline. Think of being a Congressperson, deafened by the roar of all this lobbying. Is there any such thing as “right”? Or has right come to mean “what I want” while wrong means “what my opponents want”? Still others see conversion of corn to ethanol as the institutionalizing of hunger in the form of “burning food.” Could it be, as claimed by some big-picture pundits, that the world-wide rise in food prices in part cause by conversion of corn to ethanol led to the social unrest and revolutions now referred-to as “Arab Spring”? It’s giving me a headache."

No he's not. You're projecting. He's asking a question based on what both sides of the controversy are saying. Note the 'Still others see...' phrase and the perspectives of the two camps. He is not opining. Show me here where he's blaming anyone:

"You get the picture. Environmentalists are delighted at this use of corn because it satisfies their desire to see renewable energy sources replace fossil sources. The petroleum industry sees a gallon of fuel ethanol as 2/3 of a gallon of gasoline they don’t sell. A factory farming organization will naturally seek to increase the percentage of ethanol in motor gasoline. Think of being a Congressperson, deafened by the roar of all this lobbying. Is there any such thing as “right”? Or has right come to mean “what I want” while wrong means “what my opponents want”? Still others see conversion of corn to ethanol as the institutionalizing of hunger in the form of “burning food.” Could it be, as claimed by some big-picture pundits, that the world-wide rise in food prices in part cause by conversion of corn to ethanol led to the social unrest and revolutions now referred-to as “Arab Spring”? It’s giving me a headache." It's giving me a headache, and a hangover.

<snip>

Gentleman, this is darned good journalism, first-rate. It's why he still has a job.

[Cormanus]

Recent political shifts may end the threat of E15 gas at least as a national mandate.

I'll watch that one with some interest. It may equally well go the other way.

I'll watch that one with some interest. It may equally well go the other way. Not normally a betting man, what are the odds? Are you talking UK? Don't know about the EU or UK but for the USA, E is not the answer. Those drivers really wanting to make an impact (journo pun intended) on the use of fossil fuels and emissions will buy a Leaf, Tesla, Prius, or one of many available hybrids. Lexus, Toyota, GM and other auto makers have several models of SUV, up to the Tahoe/Suburban level, that are hybrids and/or Flexfuel compliant.

National sentiment has turned quite solidly against wind power, solar power, and ethanol as being any kind of help long-term.

Then again USA can grow lots and lots of corn, make the ethanol, and ship it to y'all "over there". A world market for corn likker.

Hey, that must be what Kevin was sipping, just a few belts of corn likker to take the edge off!

Why would I talk UK or Europe when I live in Australia?

Your comment assumes we have ethanol in fuel solely because of a shortage of petroleum or political pressure for renewable energy sources. There's an equally good argument, I suspect, that it has less to do with renewables than the protection of US corn growers and Brazilian sugar growers. Who knows? People will buy Priuses and Teslas and whatever, but the ethanol may well keep being added to the gasoline to appease the might of the US farming lobby.

My view is that the future of ethanol in petrol will turn on whoever is the most potent lobby in the US. What happens in the US will affect the rest of the world.

No wonder Kevin has a headache.