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**pdedse** · 09-02-2019, 06:50 AM

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

I'm assuming you refer now to what happens in the video. At the 28-29 second mark, the MC rider is in that "half-lane" where cars are also parked--meaning that the other cars to the right can't use it. Looking ahead, one can see a car turning left--the one that is in front of the blue car that nearly side swipes the MC rider. Then the MC rider attempts to overtake the blue car on the left at the very spot where a car has just turned left.

This is where "speed" does nearly get the MC rider in trouble. As riders, we have to remember that "spirited" city riding gives the rider and other drivers less time to react. I don't see the blue car using a turn signal that might have warned the MC rider of intentions, but maybe that's because the driver doesn't know the area and the turn came up faster than s/he expected, or maybe the driver was simply being too lazy to signal. The point is that the speed of the MC rider overtaking a car in an area where the driver doesn't expect it nearly causes a collision.

Question: had there been a collision and the MC rider goes down, what would an officer have done? Written a ticket for MC rider for "unsafe pass"? Another for the driver for failing to use turn signal? Important for insurance and such, but the end result could have been that the MC rider goes down because a decision was made to ride in a spirted fashion in an area where there was substantial traffic.

Speed--again not crazy speed, just too much for conditions--got the rider into a peck of trouble, and speed, quickly accelerating got the rider out of it. Riding a bit slower, or staying behind the blue car, would have prevented the need to use speed to escape trouble. So I would counter that speed can be a poison, but riding slow-er (meaning at speed of normal traffic flow)...not so much.

I think riding fast is fun. But what I see in the video would make me very uncomfortable as a rider, and if that were my son or daughter riding...that would make me really, really uncomfortable.

But thank you cb1100_dude for posting and I hope you take my response not as confrontation but rather as commentary for the purpose of learning from it. It is interesting to take a look at, and serves as a reminder for all; it helps to see these situations so when we encounter them in real time, maybe it sticks in the back of our minds and we ask "is this a good maneuver for these conditions?" before we get into a difficult spot. I'm glad the MC rider did get out of this one.
[/quote]
Yes this is where I learned not to split lanes/ cross with a vehicle to my left or right while crossing an intersection. Drivers just don't signal or necessarily show intention of turning through their car position. Also I rode past them at an impromptu time. I was in their blind sector which made it exponentially more difficult for them to see me as you mentioned in your observations.

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

I'm assuming you refer now to what happens in the video. At the 28-29 second mark, the MC rider is in that "half-lane" where cars are also parked--meaning that the other cars to the right can't use it. Looking ahead, one can see a car turning left--the one that is in front of the blue car that nearly side swipes the MC rider. Then the MC rider attempts to overtake the blue car on the left at the very spot where a car has just turned left.

This is where "speed" does nearly get the MC rider in trouble. As riders, we have to remember that "spirited" city riding gives the rider and other drivers less time to react. I don't see the blue car using a turn signal that might have warned the MC rider of intentions, but maybe that's because the driver doesn't know the area and the turn came up faster than s/he expected, or maybe the driver was simply being too lazy to signal. The point is that the speed of the MC rider overtaking a car in an area where the driver doesn't expect it nearly causes a collision.

Question: had there been a collision and the MC rider goes down, what would an officer have done? Written a ticket for MC rider for "unsafe pass"? Another for the driver for failing to use turn signal? Important for insurance and such, but the end result could have been that the MC rider goes down because a decision was made to ride in a spirted fashion in an area where there was substantial traffic.

Speed--again not crazy speed, just too much for conditions--got the rider into a peck of trouble, and speed, quickly accelerating got the rider out of it. Riding a bit slower, or staying behind the blue car, would have prevented the need to use speed to escape trouble. So I would counter that speed can be a poison, but riding slow-er (meaning at speed of normal traffic flow)...not so much.

I think riding fast is fun. But what I see in the video would make me very uncomfortable as a rider, and if that were my son or daughter riding...that would make me really, really uncomfortable.

But thank you cb1100_dude for posting and I hope you take my response not as confrontation but rather as commentary for the purpose of learning from it. It is interesting to take a look at, and serves as a reminder for all; it helps to see these situations so when we encounter them in real time, maybe it sticks in the back of our minds and we ask "is this a good maneuver for these conditions?" before we get into a difficult spot. I'm glad the MC rider did get out of this one.
[/quote]
I was riding within speed limit and within my lane. "Technically" this was not passing but me rather going straight in my own lane. Neither mattering if I met my end lol. If I were to logically follow this towards an alternate/unfortunate scenario - an officer would have charged the car driver with an unlawful lane change and turn - having turned from the middle lane. If an officer viewed my lane splitting as the riskier type (e.g. hitting the white lines) then they may make it a shared responsibility?
[/quote]
Riding slower does not mean riding slower than other cars moving in traffic, but slower than a spirited MC rider in the same traffic aggressively passing cars...but this slower riding STILL does not guarantee that the rider will return home safely. Nobody expects a guarentee when riding MC. But I think most riders would agree that riding less agressivley as shown in the video INCREASES chances of avoiding an accident.

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

I'm assuming you refer now to what happens in the video. At the 28-29 second mark, the MC rider is in that "half-lane" where cars are also parked--meaning that the other cars to the right can't use it. Looking ahead, one can see a car turning left--the one that is in front of the blue car that nearly side swipes the MC rider. Then the MC rider attempts to overtake the blue car on the left at the very spot where a car has just turned left.

This is where "speed" does nearly get the MC rider in trouble. As riders, we have to remember that "spirited" city riding gives the rider and other drivers less time to react. I don't see the blue car using a turn signal that might have warned the MC rider of intentions, but maybe that's because the driver doesn't know the area and the turn came up faster than s/he expected, or maybe the driver was simply being too lazy to signal. The point is that the speed of the MC rider overtaking a car in an area where the driver doesn't expect it nearly causes a collision.

Question: had there been a collision and the MC rider goes down, what would an officer have done? Written a ticket for MC rider for "unsafe pass"? Another for the driver for failing to use turn signal? Important for insurance and such, but the end result could have been that the MC rider goes down because a decision was made to ride in a spirted fashion in an area where there was substantial traffic.

Speed--again not crazy speed, just too much for conditions--got the rider into a peck of trouble, and speed, quickly accelerating got the rider out of it. Riding a bit slower, or staying behind the blue car, would have prevented the need to use speed to escape trouble. So I would counter that speed can be a poison, but riding slow-er (meaning at speed of normal traffic flow)...not so much.

I think riding fast is fun. But what I see in the video would make me very uncomfortable as a rider, and if that were my son or daughter riding...that would make me really, really uncomfortable.

But thank you cb1100_dude for posting and I hope you take my response not as confrontation but rather as commentary for the purpose of learning from it. It is interesting to take a look at, and serves as a reminder for all; it helps to see these situations so when we encounter them in real time, maybe it sticks in the back of our minds and we ask "is this a good maneuver for these conditions?" before we get into a difficult spot. I'm glad the MC rider did get out of this one.
[/quote]
Yes this is where I learned not to split lanes/ cross with a vehicle to my left or right while crossing an intersection. Drivers just don't signal or necessarily show intention of turning through their car position. Also I rode past them at an impromptu time. I was in their blind sector which made it exponentially more difficult for them to see me as you mentioned in your observations.

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

I'm assuming you refer now to what happens in the video. At the 28-29 second mark, the MC rider is in that "half-lane" where cars are also parked--meaning that the other cars to the right can't use it. Looking ahead, one can see a car turning left--the one that is in front of the blue car that nearly side swipes the MC rider. Then the MC rider attempts to overtake the blue car on the left at the very spot where a car has just turned left.

This is where "speed" does nearly get the MC rider in trouble. As riders, we have to remember that "spirited" city riding gives the rider and other drivers less time to react. I don't see the blue car using a turn signal that might have warned the MC rider of intentions, but maybe that's because the driver doesn't know the area and the turn came up faster than s/he expected, or maybe the driver was simply being too lazy to signal. The point is that the speed of the MC rider overtaking a car in an area where the driver doesn't expect it nearly causes a collision.

Question: had there been a collision and the MC rider goes down, what would an officer have done? Written a ticket for MC rider for "unsafe pass"? Another for the driver for failing to use turn signal? Important for insurance and such, but the end result could have been that the MC rider goes down because a decision was made to ride in a spirted fashion in an area where there was substantial traffic.

Speed--again not crazy speed, just too much for conditions--got the rider into a peck of trouble, and speed, quickly accelerating got the rider out of it. Riding a bit slower, or staying behind the blue car, would have prevented the need to use speed to escape trouble. So I would counter that speed can be a poison, but riding slow-er (meaning at speed of normal traffic flow)...not so much.

I think riding fast is fun. But what I see in the video would make me very uncomfortable as a rider, and if that were my son or daughter riding...that would make me really, really uncomfortable.

But thank you cb1100_dude for posting and I hope you take my response not as confrontation but rather as commentary for the purpose of learning from it. It is interesting to take a look at, and serves as a reminder for all; it helps to see these situations so when we encounter them in real time, maybe it sticks in the back of our minds and we ask "is this a good maneuver for these conditions?" before we get into a difficult spot. I'm glad the MC rider did get out of this one.
[/quote]
I was riding within speed limit and within my lane. "Technically" this was not passing but me rather going straight in my own lane. Neither mattering if I met my end lol. If I were to logically follow this towards an alternate/unfortunate scenario - an officer would have charged the car driver with an unlawful lane change and turn - having turned from the middle lane. If an officer viewed my lane splitting as the riskier type (e.g. hitting the white lines) then they may make it a shared responsibility?
[/quote] The fact that there may be many examples of careful riders still getting involved in accidents simply shows that no matter how careful one is, accidents can still happen.

HOWEVER, the fact that a careful rider can get in an accident, does not mean that the statistical probability of having an accident is the same for a careful rider vs. an agressive rider. I think it logical to believe that riding behaviour that involves MC speeding by cars in traffic and passing them unexpectedly increases the chances of being in an accident.

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

I'm assuming you refer now to what happens in the video. At the 28-29 second mark, the MC rider is in that "half-lane" where cars are also parked--meaning that the other cars to the right can't use it. Looking ahead, one can see a car turning left--the one that is in front of the blue car that nearly side swipes the MC rider. Then the MC rider attempts to overtake the blue car on the left at the very spot where a car has just turned left.

This is where "speed" does nearly get the MC rider in trouble. As riders, we have to remember that "spirited" city riding gives the rider and other drivers less time to react. I don't see the blue car using a turn signal that might have warned the MC rider of intentions, but maybe that's because the driver doesn't know the area and the turn came up faster than s/he expected, or maybe the driver was simply being too lazy to signal. The point is that the speed of the MC rider overtaking a car in an area where the driver doesn't expect it nearly causes a collision.

Question: had there been a collision and the MC rider goes down, what would an officer have done? Written a ticket for MC rider for "unsafe pass"? Another for the driver for failing to use turn signal? Important for insurance and such, but the end result could have been that the MC rider goes down because a decision was made to ride in a spirted fashion in an area where there was substantial traffic.

Speed--again not crazy speed, just too much for conditions--got the rider into a peck of trouble, and speed, quickly accelerating got the rider out of it. Riding a bit slower, or staying behind the blue car, would have prevented the need to use speed to escape trouble. So I would counter that speed can be a poison, but riding slow-er (meaning at speed of normal traffic flow)...not so much.

I think riding fast is fun. But what I see in the video would make me very uncomfortable as a rider, and if that were my son or daughter riding...that would make me really, really uncomfortable.

But thank you cb1100_dude for posting and I hope you take my response not as confrontation but rather as commentary for the purpose of learning from it. It is interesting to take a look at, and serves as a reminder for all; it helps to see these situations so when we encounter them in real time, maybe it sticks in the back of our minds and we ask "is this a good maneuver for these conditions?" before we get into a difficult spot. I'm glad the MC rider did get out of this one.
[/quote]
Yes this is where I learned not to split lanes/ cross with a vehicle to my left or right while crossing an intersection. Drivers just don't signal or necessarily show intention of turning through their car position. Also I rode past them at an impromptu time. I was in their blind sector which made it exponentially more difficult for them to see me as you mentioned in your observations.

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

I'm assuming you refer now to what happens in the video. At the 28-29 second mark, the MC rider is in that "half-lane" where cars are also parked--meaning that the other cars to the right can't use it. Looking ahead, one can see a car turning left--the one that is in front of the blue car that nearly side swipes the MC rider. Then the MC rider attempts to overtake the blue car on the left at the very spot where a car has just turned left.

This is where "speed" does nearly get the MC rider in trouble. As riders, we have to remember that "spirited" city riding gives the rider and other drivers less time to react. I don't see the blue car using a turn signal that might have warned the MC rider of intentions, but maybe that's because the driver doesn't know the area and the turn came up faster than s/he expected, or maybe the driver was simply being too lazy to signal. The point is that the speed of the MC rider overtaking a car in an area where the driver doesn't expect it nearly causes a collision.

Question: had there been a collision and the MC rider goes down, what would an officer have done? Written a ticket for MC rider for "unsafe pass"? Another for the driver for failing to use turn signal? Important for insurance and such, but the end result could have been that the MC rider goes down because a decision was made to ride in a spirted fashion in an area where there was substantial traffic.

Speed--again not crazy speed, just too much for conditions--got the rider into a peck of trouble, and speed, quickly accelerating got the rider out of it. Riding a bit slower, or staying behind the blue car, would have prevented the need to use speed to escape trouble. So I would counter that speed can be a poison, but riding slow-er (meaning at speed of normal traffic flow)...not so much.

I think riding fast is fun. But what I see in the video would make me very uncomfortable as a rider, and if that were my son or daughter riding...that would make me really, really uncomfortable.

But thank you cb1100_dude for posting and I hope you take my response not as confrontation but rather as commentary for the purpose of learning from it. It is interesting to take a look at, and serves as a reminder for all; it helps to see these situations so when we encounter them in real time, maybe it sticks in the back of our minds and we ask "is this a good maneuver for these conditions?" before we get into a difficult spot. I'm glad the MC rider did get out of this one.
[/quote]
I was riding within speed limit and within my lane. "Technically" this was not passing but me rather going straight in my own lane. Neither mattering if I met my end lol. If I were to logically follow this towards an alternate/unfortunate scenario - an officer would have charged the car driver with an unlawful lane change and turn - having turned from the middle lane. If an officer viewed my lane splitting as the riskier type (e.g. hitting the white lines) then they may make it a shared responsibility?
[/quote] I would say because it reduces reaction time, increases stopping distance needed, and produces a greater impact.

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

I'm assuming you refer now to what happens in the video. At the 28-29 second mark, the MC rider is in that "half-lane" where cars are also parked--meaning that the other cars to the right can't use it. Looking ahead, one can see a car turning left--the one that is in front of the blue car that nearly side swipes the MC rider. Then the MC rider attempts to overtake the blue car on the left at the very spot where a car has just turned left.

This is where "speed" does nearly get the MC rider in trouble. As riders, we have to remember that "spirited" city riding gives the rider and other drivers less time to react. I don't see the blue car using a turn signal that might have warned the MC rider of intentions, but maybe that's because the driver doesn't know the area and the turn came up faster than s/he expected, or maybe the driver was simply being too lazy to signal. The point is that the speed of the MC rider overtaking a car in an area where the driver doesn't expect it nearly causes a collision.

Question: had there been a collision and the MC rider goes down, what would an officer have done? Written a ticket for MC rider for "unsafe pass"? Another for the driver for failing to use turn signal? Important for insurance and such, but the end result could have been that the MC rider goes down because a decision was made to ride in a spirted fashion in an area where there was substantial traffic.

Speed--again not crazy speed, just too much for conditions--got the rider into a peck of trouble, and speed, quickly accelerating got the rider out of it. Riding a bit slower, or staying behind the blue car, would have prevented the need to use speed to escape trouble. So I would counter that speed can be a poison, but riding slow-er (meaning at speed of normal traffic flow)...not so much.

I think riding fast is fun. But what I see in the video would make me very uncomfortable as a rider, and if that were my son or daughter riding...that would make me really, really uncomfortable.

But thank you cb1100_dude for posting and I hope you take my response not as confrontation but rather as commentary for the purpose of learning from it. It is interesting to take a look at, and serves as a reminder for all; it helps to see these situations so when we encounter them in real time, maybe it sticks in the back of our minds and we ask "is this a good maneuver for these conditions?" before we get into a difficult spot. I'm glad the MC rider did get out of this one.
[/quote]
Yes this is where I learned not to split lanes/ cross with a vehicle to my left or right while crossing an intersection. Drivers just don't signal or necessarily show intention of turning through their car position. Also I rode past them at an impromptu time. I was in their blind sector which made it exponentially more difficult for them to see me as you mentioned in your observations.

cb1100_dude, I've enjoyed the other video (videos?) you posted, but this one--just to be clear--is that you riding? This one gives me the willies. I've watched the video a number of times, and I hesitate to play "arm-chair quarterback", but since you posted for the purpose of drawing some conclusions based on riding and conditions, I feel the need to respond. I like these type of vidoes because MC riders can learn lots from analyzing situations, which I believe help us become better riders. In short, I do think the MC rider is going too fast--maybe not crazy speed--but too fast considering the traffic conditions.

[quote="cb1100_dude_imp" pid="241690" dateline="1567381380"]
This is a few months [url=https://youtu.be/_HOgTfB5KcE]old vid but it shows the importance of road strategy when riding a bit more spirited..

I've taken some principles with me when riding in the city. Just me 2 cents.

1.) When on a two way road - try your best to stay on the left of left most lane. It'll give you the most visibility to those crossing the intersection to make a left and will be blocking your. It'll also make you most visible to them.

2.) When on a one way road but it has 3 lanes... stay in the middle lane/2nd lane. Lots of cars parked on both sides and lots of cars stopping to turn both left and right. This is a doub

cb1100_dude_imp · 09-02-2019, 07:48 AM

I’ll have to respectfully disagree with your analysis of the outcome of the law if there was an accident. It would be too arbitrary. This is stemming from my personal experience of having been involved in an mc accident before here in CA. Although not a lawyer here either and I was never a cop LOL

I agree and disagree with you on slower reaction time. Again experiencing speed faster then slower seems to have the effect of recalibrating a rider’s reaction speed but there is a limit to it. Purely anecdotal.

Thanks for your thoughts!

**pdedse** · 09-02-2019, 08:01 AM

Perhaps so; it was conjecture on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't turn out favorably for you...very good that you don't have to find out in this instance! Ride safe...well, you know, in a manner of speaking.
Cool

**Cormanus** · 09-02-2019, 08:41 AM

Thanks to cb1100_dude for sharing that video and to pdedse for your considered analysis and response and to you both for the subsequent discussion. I think the rider was travelling too fast for the conditions, but that's just my view probably informed by increasing age and decreasing appetite for speed in traffic.

However, the critical points seem to me that traffic was allowed to turn left at that intersection and that cars were parked in the leftmost lane meaning there was no other place for cars wanting to turn left than the lane the blue car was in. The driver may have been at fault by not indicating, but it's academic, isn't it? Travelling straight ahead to the left or right of someone who can lawfully turn across your direction of travel is simply not a safe thing to do.

I'd add to your lessons, cb1100_dude: when lane splitting, reduce the risk by being between two lanes which are obliged to travel straight ahead through an intersection. It won't save you from clowns who make random and illegal turns, but you aren't setting yourself up for the high likelihood that someone will turn ahead of you.

Thanks again for sharing the video.

Houtman_imp · 09-02-2019, 09:55 AM

Many times if there is an accident between a car and a motor cycle it is not a question who was right and who was wrong but more important WHO IS LEFT !

Novice_imp · 09-02-2019, 10:25 AM

Driver is just trying to turn or whatever. MC comes ripping up. So much for defensive riding or riding like you’re invisible. Good luck with that.

zirconxi_imp · 09-02-2019, 05:11 PM

Gosh... I am too old for this speed in the city. Anyway, ride safe and take care CB1100_dude. Doesn't seems like a lot of motorcyclist in your area, which might be the reason car driver give less attention to motorcycle. They can't see us, and we must ride as though we are invisible.

**pdedse** · 09-03-2019, 06:41 AM

cb1100_dude, I was thinking of you right after not getting hit by a semi a few minutes ago... I went for swim over lunch and was returning to my office on my KLR650, going down a quiet road that Ts into a major street. The light was green for me so I prepared to make my right hand turn when I look left at traffic and notice a semi hauling a good size trailer, going at least 40, maybe 45 in a 35 zone.

I think he saw me start to turn, must have seen the red light, then hit his brakes pretty hard. I stopped easily enough as I was slowing down for the turn. He let off the brakes and rolled on through the intersection as there was no way he was going to stop in time. Had I continued, I don't think I would be typing this.

So I was thinking of your quote from above...I would have been hit had this happened 1-2 seconds earlier, or if I had been riding faster, or had I simply not looked to check that traffic had indeed slowed down.

Semi driver waved an apology as he streamed by me. I waved back.

GoldOxide_imp · 09-03-2019, 12:01 PM

Yay pdedse! Beer

**Cormanus** · 09-03-2019, 04:41 PM

I’m very pleased you were alert and the semi missed you, pdedse.

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