A December ride

[the Ferret]

Hand held detectors as used by local leo are supposed to be calibrated every so often in case they are challenged in court. These things hang on poles, sometimes for years, cranking out photos and tickets, and I have never seen anyone on one of the poles calibrating one.

Like I said, if one is reading just 2 mph higher than the actual speed, how much revenue is being falsly collected? My understanding is there are no points involved, at least I would hope not.

[KiowaEagle_imp]

They can't do points if they can't positively identify the driver.

[Gone in 60]

There was a big hub-bub when red light cameras came to L.A. in the '90s. I worked downtown, and the first one was down Wilshire Blvd from our office. If the camera got you, it spit out a very grainy black and white thermal image showing your car committing the offense. Soon, it became a badge of honor to pin one of those tickets outside your cubicle wall. At lunch one day, we chatted up a Beverly Hills police officer. He told us that since the tickets were issued by a third party company, in reality, there was nothing that could really be done to enforce them. Those of us who received them got threatening letters, but that was it. Eventually, L.A. pulled the cameras, as they were losing more money in court costs than the revenue the cameras generated.

[Cormanus]

I know things are different between countries, but I would have thought that, even if the cameras are operated by private providers, that could only happen under the authority of some sort of law. Such a law wold give the provider the authority to collect fines. It should also set out how and when the devices had to be calibrated. Again, I've no idea how things operate in the US or Canada, but, in Australia, if you're caught on a speed camera, you can accept the ticket, pay the fine and cop the points; or challenge it in court. A possible defence would be that the camera was improperly calibrated. A significant difference in Australia is that fixed and mobile speed and red-light cameras are owned and operated by police under authority of legislation passed by state governments. Fines and points apply. I have no reason to believe that the cameras aren't regularly and properly calibrated.

Any tolerance about how fast you have to be going before penalties apply is a matter for the police and they keep very quiet about it. I recall, though that, a few years ago, police announced that, since the accuracy of modern cameras had improved considerably, they were reducing the tolerance. Australian law enforcement is very unforgiving of speeding.

Kiowa Eagle, I can't remember what they are, but we have provisions that deal wth the question of who wears the points in the event that the car has multiple owners or was being driven by someone other than the registered owner. They get you.

[GoldOxide_imp]

In Ontario, Canada no demerit points are applied, just the fine. Similar to some states, the face of the driver is not allowed to be shown. Not sure if that has changed. So the onus is on the vehicle owner to go after the driver to collect the fine, if they wish (e.g. maybe the young son of a father owner) ...



... "Luke! ... am ya fah-thaaaaa."

[KiowaEagle_imp]

I know things are different between countries, but I would have thought that, even if the cameras are operated by private providers, that could only happen under the authority of some sort of law. Such a law wold give the provider the authority to collect fines. It should also set out how and when the devices had to be calibrated. Again, I've no idea how things operate in the US or Canada, but, in Australia, if you're caught on a speed camera, you can accept the ticket, pay the fine and cop the points; or challenge it in court. A possible defence would be that the camera was improperly calibrated. A significant difference in Australia is that fixed and mobile speed and red-light cameras are owned and operated by police under authority of legislation passed by state governments. Fines and points apply. I have no reason to believe that the cameras aren't regularly and properly calibrated.

Any tolerance about how fast you have to be going before penalties apply is a matter for the police and they keep very quiet about it. I recall, though that, a few years ago, police announced that, since the accuracy of modern cameras had improved considerably, they were reducing the tolerance. Australian law enforcement is very unforgiving of speeding.

Kiowa Eagle, I can't remember what they are, but we have provisions that deal wth the question of who wears the points in the event that the car has multiple owners or was being driven by someone other than the registered owner. They get you.

How do they determine who was driving? Or is it just assigned to the owner because they are ultimately responsible for who drives their car?

[noroomtomove]

Read the paragraph bellow, then for context the newspaper article follows.

The camera crisis emerged in the middle of last year when a fixed camera on the Western Ring Road recorded a 1975 Datsun 120Y travelling at 158 km/h. Independent mechanical testing showed that the car could reach only 117 km/h.

From the Age newspaper in Melbourne Australia.

"Almost 165,000 motorists caught by fixed speed cameras will have their fines waived or be paid compensation, costing the State Government $26 million.

The Government said yesterday it would repay fines totalling $13.7 million to 90,000 motorists photographed by suspect fixed speed cameras on the Western Ring Road.

A further $6 million would be available to compensate motorists who lost their licences after being snapped by the cameras.

And fines totalling $6.1 million from across the entire fixed speed camera network - covering the Western Ring Road, CityLink and the Monash Freeway - will be waived. These 43,725 fines have been frozen since November 12 last year.

Hundreds of drivers still without their licences because they were caught speeding on the ring road could be back on the road soon as the Government tries to placate an angry public over the cameras debacle. Some 2500 motorists who lost their licences last year received at least one speeding fine from a Western Ring Road camera.

But despite setting up the $6 million compensation fund, the Government probably still faces legal action by motorists.

Premier Steve Bracks pledged that the Government would not take away drivers' rights to sue.

He said every one of the 90,000 speeding fines ever issued because of Western Ring Road fixed cameras would be repaid and demerit points wiped.

Mr Bracks said he was angry about the extensive faults in the ring road cameras, but repeatedly refused to say sorry to motorists.

"I'm angry that the public of Victoria have had to endure a system where speed cameras did not work to the level which we expected and contracted for in the first place," he said.

"The community and the Victorian Government of course expect and deserve a fixed camera system (that) we can have total confidence in. And the measures we're taking today are ensuring that we have that in the future."

Mr Bracks emphasised the role of VicRoads in the speed camera issue, saying it obtained the cameras from supplier Poltech International, which is now under administration.

"It is unacceptable that the Western Ring Road fixed speed cameras have deteriorated to this point. It is unacceptable. We'll be investigating all legal options against Poltech International."

In other developments:

George Georges, deed administrator for Poltech, said Poltech was never responsible for maintaining the cameras and the Government was trying to make it a scapegoat.
Wear and tear, poor installation and electromagnetic interference were blamed for faulty readings on ring road cameras.
Former auditor-general Ches Baragwanath will investigate the ring road camera contract.
The Justice Department will manage all fixed speed camera contracts.
All 19 cameras on the ring road, which were installed in late 2002, will be replaced.
Opposition Leader Robert Doyle said Mr Bracks should sack Police Minister Andre Haermeyer and Transport Minister Peter Batchelor over the speed cameras.

He said the Government had ignored evidence last year that the camera system was not working and was now trying to claim credit for tackling the problem.

"They were the ones who in their greed for motorists' fines rolled out a system that was clearly inadequate and now they're trying to pretend to us that it's all under control," Mr Doyle said.

RACV public policy manager Ken Ogden said motorists deserved an apology. He also called for an independent, public process for checking the accuracy of speed cameras.

The camera crisis emerged in the middle of last year when a fixed camera on the Western Ring Road recorded a 1975 Datsun 120Y travelling at 158 km/h. Independent mechanical testing showed that the car could reach only 117 km/h.

Despite the speed camera woes, the Government will increase speeding fines by 2.25 per cent in July."

Datsun 120Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuC9E3H6FH8

Regards NRTM

[the Ferret]

Lol gotta love the gov ..... no matter what country it is in
I just googled leeway in speed cameras. Some interesting reads there, but ended up on an leo forum. Some are not so motorist friendly lol, saying they stop at 3 and write at 5 over, but that 1 over is technically over, anc they can start writing there if they feel like it.

[Cormanus]

KiowaEagle, if you weren’t driving, you came make a statutory declaration nominating the driver and the ticket is reissued.

NRTM, brilliant video. Gotta love a 120Y.

[Gone in 60]

In the case of the remaining red light cameras in my area, the ticket includes a clear photo of the front and rear of the car verifying the plate number, as well as a shot through the windshield showing the driver.

There’s also a declaration that can be filled out saying, basically “If this isn’t you, and if the photo proves it, whom should receive this ticket?”

I got one of the tickets a while back. The photo reminded me that I had lent my car to a coworker. I handed it to him and he took care of it.