Finally got to actually ride it.

[Cormanus]

Jambo, by all means try, but you'll not get much argument here that the CB1100 set out largely to appeal to geezers. The seat-of-the-pants dyno is all very interesting, but do you intend to take it to one of the floor-mounted, calibrated variety and see what HP improvement you really achieved? A couple of members—PowerDubs and beardyweirdy have got close to 100 hp, but they've had to work very hard for it.

[Jambo_imp]

Jambo, by all means try, but you'll not get much argument here that the CB1100 set out largely to appeal to geezers. The seat-of-the-pants dyno is all very interesting, but do you intend to take it to one of the floor-mounted, calibrated variety and see what HP improvement you really achieved? A couple of members—PowerDubs and beardyweirdy have got close to 100 hp, but they've had to work very hard for it.

That is a very good question that I have thought very much about. Jambo got lots of opinions (you are concluding), and this is one of them. In recent history, disregard what the aftermarket exhaust manufacturers says about merely purchasing their product, and it requiring no dyno tuning as the stock ECU will take care of it. They don't want every purchase of their expensive product to come with an analysis by the buyer of the factor of the cost of a fuel module, or they have less sales.
By the nature of the bike manufacturers being an easy target of the EPA (without the muscle like the auto industry has), the bike already comes fueled very lean from the factory. While that is good for emissions, it is not good for longevity of the motor. A lean motor is a hot motor. Getting an aftermarket slip-on or full exhaust (especially if adding the K&N), must include dyno runs, and a PC type device to compensate for the A/F ratios or the rider risks poor running, less performance gain, and long term affects to the longevity of the motor. That was my justifiable past thinking. Case in point was my Superhawk. That bike was carbureted, and took many pulls of the tank, airbox, and carbs to get the settings right for the full exhaust and K&N I bought. Pull tank/box/carb, make adjustments to the needles and mains, reassemble, and run on dyno. Only to discover due to the overlapping affects of the needles and jets, that you squeezed the balloon too much one way or another. Rinse and repeat.
NOW, and especially with a popular bike, Dynojet mostly has maps that will closely mimic your choice of add-ons. I still think the farther you stray from stock, from just a slip-on, to full system, to adding a K&N, you must at least have the PCV to compensate A/F. And in the past, it made sense to dyno that and make map adjustments to the PC according to the crucial information acquired from the run.
NOW the PCs are pretty good and have lots of maps. I was skeptical that the CB1100+Yosh (and stock air) map would get it close. I was wrong. And NOW, you have the Autotuner, giving the capable purchaser the ability to "teach" the mapper to map correctly using the wideband sensor. That learning occurs over all rpms, gears, and throttle positions. That crucial information was only previously available by putting the bike on the dyno and running it up through the gears getting A/F ratios along the way, and changing them as needed. NOW the Autotuner does this w/o the dyno.
The actual need to use the dyno run as the informer to the tuner and fuel manager (computer) has been largely reduced. This relegates the dyno run to information for the interested reader, IMO.
I really don't care what the actual number is, or that I wring the absolute most out of this motor it is capable of producing.
My goals are:
1) make sure the bike is running optimally, with no stumbles, hiccups, or non-linear characteristics
2) gain satisfactory performance.

Judging by my short, but very comprehensive first ride, I have achieved both. It really doesn't matter to me what the actual number is, though it makes an interesting graph for my CB1100 folder and provides the ability to discuss it quantitatively. My butt dyno tells me the bike makes plenty of hp and really doesn't NEED more.

I am still am skeptical that my PCV (alone) map will be good by itself if I further lean the bikes A/F with the K&N. I will try it. If my goal #1 suffers, I can take it out, OR weld on the wideband and tune the PCV through real-world learning. I am also not a stranger to making airbox mods and can cut holes in it. Stuff LIKE THAT though, really does benefit from dyno runs. I got surprising results turning my HawkGT air box into a sieve a little at a time (did not improve followed by duct tape over holes and more dyno runs). Alternatively, I could install the Autotuner and see what it does with the stock O2. I can always revert back to a previously better map (#1) if needed.

Outside of exhaust, PCV, Autotuner, and air filter and box mods, what other substantial work required achieving the hp ton? Did they do cams and compression ratios? I have no desire to do any of that. The bike does not need that IMO. If it was just exhaust, filter, box and fuel management, that is not a huge effort.

With the Autotuner, the actual need and requirement to put the bike on the dyno has lessened greatly. I should be able to tell if the bike runs smoothly.

[Jambo_imp]

Follow on to first ride (post-mods) impression. Last Wednesday with a forecast having the thermometer glancing 80, I played hooky from work after morning meetings and took off. After many rides of scouring the landscape for fun and interesting roads, I have developed a "circuit" that takes me through mostly back roads by farms and outlying suburbia meandering north, with alternate roads back. Lots of switchbacks, long sweepers with decreasing/increasing radii, tight turns, and narrow and some not-so-well paved back roads. I spent a couple hours on the bike doing this circuit that is about 90 miles. Since it was mid-week afternoon, I had the roads mostly to myself to play. I tried to work on my smoothness of controls, while still somewhat pushing the bike. I definitely confirmed two things I observed in the first ride:
1) The fueling and setup with the Delkevic and PCV really is pretty good as it is.
2) The suspension is fairly lacking.

Still wondering if the bike will benefit or lose through the addition of the K&N, and that will "force" me to need to employ the Autotuner. Pulling the mid-pipe and welding on the WB O2 sensor is a pain. Then it is the whole investment of ride/tune until satisfied. I said last time the CB was in no danger of lofting the front wheel. Wrong! Getting hard on the gas, bike upright in first gear, I actually felt it start to lift the wheel. It might have been 5-6K rpms. That was surprising, and it was not like I was attempting that. There is plenty of thrust to this motor. I still guess I am in the mid-nineties hp wise. In any gear from 3K up, a roll on of the throttle is met with instant thrust. Honda tuning this motor "for torque", coupled with uncorking results in a very snappy and fun response. No dead spots are noticeable.

After the ride, and with the weather so nice, I decided to resist the urge to get back on the laptop to address the overbearing work, and just sat outside on the deck with the CB1100 manual in hand. I need to order the Helm for sure. When I was doing the work and side panels off, I was looking aft of the box wondering how the K&N goes in. Looking at the wrong side dummy! Just inserting that looks easy as it should be. I think I will install that, leaving the full Delkevic with stock O2 in place, mapped with the CB1100 +Yosh "standard" map in place and do a ride like that, and report back. I kind of like making smaller changes at a time, as opposed to the wholesale stock exhaust + PCV swap I actually did. Then evaluate the next steps. If it seems to lean things, I will have to arrange to pull the mid-pipe and take the bung for a weld.
Question: Has anyone done this with the Delkevic yet? My thoughts are to leave the factory welded bung as is to retain the ability to plug the stock O2, and install the Delkevic provided brass plug into it, and drilling a new hole near it to accommodate the WB O2 provided with the Dynojet Autotuner module. I figure pilot holes followed by stepping up bits until getting the desired diameter for the bung is needed. Then I could do some back and forth as desired. That whole thing is anticipated to be a real pain.

As to the suspension. Some of the roads on my "circuit" have a lot of poorly done patching and rough surfaces. I am 180 lbs suited, and I have the rear shocks fully out with PL, and the front on line three. I was thinking of putting the front full out (soft) and seeing what change there is. The stock suspension under spirited riding on those surfaces pounds you. I am not sure if it is because there is not enough travel (and why I want to try full soft), or it is generally lacking in fast enough rebound. I am wondering if simple viscosity changes make any difference and what people have tried. I need to endeavor to search the threads here to see what there is to learn from what others have tried. I am not looking forward to disassembling the forks. For a long-term keeper though, I feel it definitely needs some improvement. I am also wondering if significant improvements are made with just addressing only the rear as that is low-hanging fruit effort wise. The Ohlins are way expensive. Of course I would love the fully adjustable, but $1500 is pretty steep. The Ikons are more reasonable, and I read the rear suspension thread. Not sure if the issue is mostly front, rear, or both.

[Bheezy27403_imp]

Both. I put Ikon's on the back that helped immensely and added a couple turns of preload on the front which helped a little. The front is still soft but better.

[PowerDubs_imp]

I’m at 100whp and 72wtq on the dyno with stock ECU, so neutered ign timing and redline. Could have used a little more fuel.

I then put the Guhls ecu in and crashed the bike on the first ride afterward - only a few miles from my house.

Bikes fixed- I just haven’t been back out on it yet. Need to re-register and insure.

Should make better numbers now.

Also have Ikon rear shocks and ‘17 DBV forks. Both are excellent.





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[peterbaron]

Well Josh, congrats and nice to hear about your return.
Stay safe and we anticipate further reports.
Good luck

[Jambo_imp]

I’m at 100whp and 72wtq on the dyno with stock ECU, so neutered ign timing and redline. Could have used a little more fuel.

I then put the Guhls ecu in and crashed the bike on the first ride afterward - only a few miles from my house.

Bikes fixed- I just haven’t been back out on it yet. Need to re-register and insure.

Should make better numbers now.

Also have Ikon rear shocks and ‘17 DBV forks. Both are excellent.





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Which Ikons did you get? I wrote them complaining that their website provides little information on the differences between 7610 and 7614. Also where is the spring rate chart? They responded telling me a few more specs and that they are revamping their web presence. It appears for the extra 50%, you get more PL instability and gas charging. They said the springs are chosen at checkout. I am giving thought to the 7614's. The DBV is the Delux?
Can you summarize what were the total mods done?

Both. I put Ikon's on the back that helped immensely and added a couple turns of preload on the front which helped a little. The front is still soft but better.

Did you change springs or fork oil?
UPDATE: Put in the K&N Air Filter in the Air Box today. No mods to the box. I did wash out the snout and dry it. The K&N comes pre-oiled. I was not sure as it does not feel greasy, so I called them to confirm that was the case (it was) before I sprayed more K&N filter oil (I already had) on it.
I was wondering if the installation of the K&N AF was going to lean it out to the point where I would notice fueling issues after installation. It did not. BTW the stock air filter looks to have about the same surface area as the K&N and was pretty clean. If there is any additional flow at all, I think it is not much, therefore if you want the K&N, then I say you are buying it just for the re-usability. Went for an hour ride on back roads and had them mostly to myself. The performance was the same and am happy to say that the filter addition does not seem to make a material difference in the quality of the fueling. I did not notice any hesitation or backfiring on down-shifting (of which I did a lot). I did not notice any performance improvement, or if there was any, it was subtle enough that it was unnoticeable to me. Everything from cruising at almost idle in 6th, to the redline seemed pretty much spot on to me (still).

To recap (in terms of engine performance, I did the following:
1) Full Delkevic with 14" CF canister with the baffle intact (not removed)
2) Stock O2 sensor scavenged from stock exhaust system
3) PCV with downloaded map of CB1100 + full Yoshimura pipe and stock air filter
4) K&N Air Filter

I had to make that 1" bracket to move the Delkevic "stock" mounting location back to the frame mounting location to ensure the exhaust is tight (which makes their mount about 1" forward of the stock mount. I did not use the RTV and do not hear any exhaust leakage. The provided pipe rings/gaskets in combination with the beefy exhaust clamps firmly snugged seem to make a good seal, making the use of the provided RTV not needed.

I bought the companion Dynojet Autotuner with the PCV, but have not yet installed it. I will likely leave that mod to the Spring, especially since I have to hack and weld my mid-pipe in order to the use the Wideband O2 sensor the AT came with, but I don't think it is necessary. At least with #1-4 mods performed above. The fueling is good everywhere as it stands, and I may leave well enough alone or just put it in to play with it with my copious amounts of spare time, since it is paid for already. Knowing what I know now, I would not have purchased the AT for MY application, and I think the money would have been better spent on the Ikons. It would be nice if Progressive made a unit that fits the CB1100, as it would have been likely more affordable.

The Delkevic full system is surprisingly affordably priced for what you get. The stainless steel looks high quality, and is a good kit down to the details like quality clamps and hardware. They have already turned a nice mellow golden brown hue with only 200 miles. The exhaust note is also quite pleasing, especially getting on it, and it sounds very bassy and throaty. Almost like a twin in terms of low frequency (with an obvious inline four sound). The CF can looks great with the black frame and black color scheme of the bike on mine. I don't think I will take the baffle out, as it doesn't need to be removed, need any louder sound, or more hp and freer flow.

At this point, I am also unlikely to do the Guhls ECU (not saying there is anything wrong with that if you did so), as IMHO I don't think the bike needs it. The improvement in hp and torque with #1-4 alone has provided a larger than typical increase in performance over stock than you normally get from an exhaust replacement. The Guhls may ditch the premature rev limiter, but I don't think that matters much. I ride fairly aggressively, but I find myself shifting in advance of the limiter anyway, just bouncing off it because I could, not because I needed to. The bike pulls very strongly without hesitation in any of the first 5 gears, in almost any rpm as it is. I am pretty happy with the results so far, and if there was any performance improvement through the use of the AT, then that would just be icing on the cake to me. The current hp the bike makes is already enough to overwhelm the traction of the less than stellar tires (mine are new) with their less than optimum sizing (compare to supersports). The bike already feels like it wants to loft the front wheel as it is.

I will probably not dyno it as it does not feel like it needs to be to resolve any fueling issue, and I don't think knowing how much hp it makes is that relevant (to me), even though I have a friend who has a DJ dyno and does not charge much (lives 2 hr roundtrip though).

I also don't think I am going to bother doing any air box modifications, as I don't think it needs that either.

I am happy with the performance I now have with the CB.

[Cormanus]

Good work, Jambo.

[Jambo_imp]

One more thing I forgot. After initially doing the (final) exhaust installation, I refueled. After my second ride, and over the course of about 150 hard ridden miles, with nearly WOT in every gear/everywhere, I got some more fuel and took note of my Trip B meter (I reserve T-A for oil change interval) and receipt, and calculated mileage. It came in at a very respectable 38 mpg considering the modifications. I think I would need to do this a few more times to average out the error in fill volume to get a more accurate reading. That yields a usable range from my 2014 smallish 4 gallon tank. This is not to say it is stellar. My '17 Honda Civic gets that.

By comparison, my Superhawk with full exhaust, K&N and Stage 3 jet kit devolved to only 25! Think about the fact that on that bike I could legally use the High Occupancy Vehicle reserve commuter lanes, and the fact that the Prius next to me could run off the gas the SH farts out the pipe. Also, you have to fuel up way too often and see a perpetual blinking/conservative gas gauge, which is a PITA or constantly worry you will run out.

If I was short shifting and riding conservatively, I am sure it would have been more like 50 mpg. Since it is pretty good, I see no need to manually adjust OD F/A ratios for mileage purposes.