No Monkey for now

[Olyrider]

I listened to both the sales mgr and owner misstate the dealer’s cost. It usually (ALWAYS in the case of the sales mgr) came right after they said “I’m going to be totally honest with you, and show you how little we make on this bike.”

Their job, and they are really good at it, is to quickly measure your enthusiasm and math skills. All that occurs after that is to close you on the sale making the most profit they can.

But you knew that...right?

The sad part was hearing the same “sincere” lying time and again.

[Cormanus]

I remember reading a long time ago that, when someone says, “let me be totally honest with you” or “I’ll be frank”, you can be sure you’re going to be lied to.

[LongRanger_imp]

I was considering buying a BMW franchise in the northeastern U.S. about twenty years ago. The margins on new bikes back then were very thin -- about 10% at MSRP. A slow selling model, which incurred excessive flooring costs, would eat into the dealer's profit potential. The dealer makes his money at the parts counter, the service counter, and on used bikes. BMW dealers are required to comply with the factory's requirements for carpeting, displays, signage, paint, demo bikes, etc. it's not an easy business.

[GoldOxide_imp]

I would imagine so given that many view riding as a discretionary or recreational expense. So when times get squeezed, shops/dealers feel it, versus say a produce grocery store, or even the local liquor store. I think the last really, really good times for dealers here must have been around the late '90s. It seems since then, the established dealers just disappeared. Really sad. Some dealers are supported by other businesses like car and marine sales. Any many now do lawn mowers, snow blowers, generators, pumps, casual and riding ware, etc. etc.

[rboe]

I think owning a cycle franchise and farming are very similar in that the quickest way to make a million dollars is start out with two million.

[Cormanus]

Interesting, isn't it? When I was a kid, some of the wealthiest people in our small-ish community were motor vehicle franchise owners. They may have had many other business interests, but they got a better than handsome income from selling vehicles. Something has changed. Well, probably lots of things really.

[WRXer_imp]

I've never paid "freight" or "setup" on any new bike. Nor will I.

[VLJ_imp]

Not all Honda dealers pay the traditional flooring fees. "Powerhouse" dealers don't have to pay it, so they don't care if their new stock sits on the showroom long enough to have multiple birthdays.

As to the documentation fee, our local DMV rep explained it thusly: "It's not a mandatory fee, until a dealership charges even a single customer for it. At that point, once it was charged to one customer, by law it must be charged to all customers."

I've sold motorcycles and other vehicles for over thirty years, and the "doc fee" has never been waived for an in-state purchase. It's nearly always $80.

Freight and set-up? Total hogwash. Nearly all pure profit. These days, most bikes arrive just about fully assembled. All the PDI (Pre-Delivery Inspection) typically entails is uncrating the thing, adding fluids, and performing a cursory once-over.

For new motorcycles that aren't three-year-old leftovers, a general rule of thumb is msrp OTD (out the door, including all fees) is a decent deal. The dealer isn't giving it away at a loss, and you aren't getting gouged. It's a perfectly acceptable feel-good number, and it cuts through all the back-and-forth, fees-based b.s.

[Olyrider]

Since we are disagreeing about facts, and not opinions, I will write this once more.

HMC charges every dealer freight AND set-up. That is a plain and simple fact. Whether they raise those prices to generate revenue is on a case-by-case basis.

In Washington, the document fee is NEGOTIABLE. It was written into state law many years ago on the strength of the lobbying efforts, and power, of the Automobile Dealers Association. It was intended to bring additional profit to the dealers by confusing customers into believing it is “the law” therefore can not be negotiated. It is also “the law” that it must always be described as “negotible. Another plain and simple fact not subject to interpretation or disagreement.

[Paris_imp]

Since we are disagreeing about facts, and not opinions, I will write this once more.

HMC charges every dealer freight AND set-up. That is a plain and simple fact. Whether they raise those prices to generate revenue is on a case-by-case basis.

In Washington, the document fee is NEGOTIABLE. It was written into state law many years ago on the strength of the lobbying efforts, and power, of the Automobile Dealers Association. It was intended to bring additional profit to the dealers by confusing customers into believing it is “the law” therefore can not be negotiated. It is also “the law” that it must always be described as “negotible. Another plain and simple fact not subject to interpretation or disagreement.

As another poster pointed out, dealers quickly assess your interest level and use it against you in negotiation. Pretending to be disinterested does not work, because (well) you're there talking about buying in the first place. What did work for me with the CB1100 was having a dealership in PA which was actually willing to sell the CB1100EX new for about 3K below what anyone else locally was charging. How they did that no one else knew, but the price and availability could be and was confirmed by several other dealers with one phone call. This cat's paw finally got me a price from a local Honda dealer 2.5K below the lowest anyone else in the area was willing to charge.

That was a lucky one-of situation because PA was not so far from Virginia that transporting the bike was impractical, but you don't usually have that option. I think the key in a normal case is understanding that the negotiation does not have to be a zero sum gain, but that both parties can benefit in different ways. I let them impose freight, documentation and dealer prep, and even allow them an advantage in the trade-in. This, I believe, motivates them to close the deal with me in preference to anyone else. Where I get it back, and more, are in accessories, modifications, and service related concessions. These are things for which the dealer pays a very low wholesale price, or which can be absorbed without an out of pocket loss, such as labor.