Monkey-man

[Riko_imp]

what I would change asap is of course the exhaust, the stock pipe is too civil for me
but certainly the crappy tires and the squishy suspension.

Unbelievable that Honda puts such a high price sticker on basically a souped up scoot, but fits it with crappy suspension.
Especially my 84kg can feel how bad they are.
I've replaced both front and rear on my 50cc Zoomer and never looked back.

With the suspension, tires and exhaust sorted, it should be a hoot in town.
But I'll be waitin till those things become available second hand....

It wouldn't surprise me that Japanese companies like Honda motorsports are finding it challenging to compete globally on price. So they cut where it makes business sense and leave discretionary change in the hands of the owners. They leverage the reputation of the brand in order to keep price premiums elevated, and I suppose, "proud". They are experiencing the same economical challenges as all other good quality vehicle manufacturers, maybe sans a few German makers.

It wouldn't surprise me that Japanese companies like Honda motorsports are finding it challenging to compete globally on price. So they cut where it makes business sense and leave discretionary change in the hands of the owners. They leverage the reputation of the brand in order to keep price premiums elevated, and I suppose, "proud". They are experiencing the same economical challenges as all other good quality vehicle manufacturers, maybe sans a few German makers.
They cut on quality parts, but they keep a premium price.
Not exactly good value for money.
So why keep the high price? Confidence that modelname and modelhistory will still attract people?....that strategy feels very German-esque.

Here's something that made me laugh and than frown from the US site:

Inverted Fork Suspension
Here’s a huge improvement over the original Monkey bike: Like a top-of-the-line sportbike, the new 2019 Monkey features an inverted hydraulic fork front suspension for control and road feel.

Chunky Tires
The Monkey’s high-aspect-ratio tires do more than just look cool. They’re extraordinarily practical too, giving you tons of grip and absorbing bumps or rough road surfaces.

Thats not only exaggeration, its plain lying in your face


4000 euro.

[alprider]

adventure/endurobikes are nothing for short legs/littel peoples and the monkey is nothing for heavy peoples....in both cases you must first change something from the stock parts.... .....where is the problem......?

ballontires are ok with the grip only just not the stocktires.... wehre is the problem...
here is the temperatur and streetmarks a big factor

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9mGEu4GSs

[GoldOxide_imp]

what I would change asap is of course the exhaust, the stock pipe is too civil for me
but certainly the crappy tires and the squishy suspension.

Unbelievable that Honda puts such a high price sticker on basically a souped up scoot, but fits it with crappy suspension.
Especially my 84kg can feel how bad they are.
I've replaced both front and rear on my 50cc Zoomer and never looked back.

With the suspension, tires and exhaust sorted, it should be a hoot in town.
But I'll be waitin till those things become available second hand....

It wouldn't surprise me that Japanese companies like Honda motorsports are finding it challenging to compete globally on price. So they cut where it makes business sense and leave discretionary change in the hands of the owners. They leverage the reputation of the brand in order to keep price premiums elevated, and I suppose, "proud". They are experiencing the same economical challenges as all other good quality vehicle manufacturers, maybe sans a few German makers.

It wouldn't surprise me that Japanese companies like Honda motorsports are finding it challenging to compete globally on price. So they cut where it makes business sense and leave discretionary change in the hands of the owners. They leverage the reputation of the brand in order to keep price premiums elevated, and I suppose, "proud". They are experiencing the same economical challenges as all other good quality vehicle manufacturers, maybe sans a few German makers.
They cut on quality parts, but they keep a premium price.
Not exactly good value for money.
So why keep the high price? Confidence that modelname and modelhistory will still attract people?....that strategy feels very German-esque.

Here's something that made me laugh and than frown from the US site:

Inverted Fork Suspension
Here’s a huge improvement over the original Monkey bike: Like a top-of-the-line sportbike, the new 2019 Monkey features an inverted hydraulic fork front suspension for control and road feel.

Chunky Tires
The Monkey’s high-aspect-ratio tires do more than just look cool. They’re extraordinarily practical too, giving you tons of grip and absorbing bumps or rough road surfaces.

Thats not only exaggeration, its plain lying in your face


4000 euro.

[the Ferret]

It's not like anyone is going to be touring or road racing on one of these. They are an adult toy for tearing up the neighborhood. What quality of tires and suspension do you need for that?

[MM300_imp]

It's not like anyone is going to be touring or road racing on one of these. They are an adult toy for tearing up the neighborhood. What quality of tires and suspension do you need for that?

If the Grom forum is any indication...much higher.

There’s a whole segment of Grom riders that appear to want to turn the bike into a high performance machine.

The same thing will likely happen with the Monkey.

[the Ferret]

I'm guessing though in total numbers, those that get complete suspension make overs are a very small percentage. Bet there will be even less so on the Monkey bike.

[Riko_imp]

It's not like anyone is going to be touring or road racing on one of these. They are an adult toy for tearing up the neighborhood. What quality of tires and suspension do you need for that?

Do you need to tour or road race to suffer from an unsafe under spec-ed suspension?

All of a sudden high expectations are of no concern when spending 4000 euro on a 'adult toy'?
Sorry but I disagree on that.
When something is homologated for the public road one should expect a certain level of quality.

I dunno in the States, but in small dense cities like where I live, small bikes and scooters are an ideal means of transport for short communting, while a 'toy' to you, we tend to combine the fun aspect with practical use as well.
This is why I have my 50cc Zoomer and was potentially looking into this Monkey.

And like I said, the whole suspension of the Zoomer/Ruckus, (wich btw also was an overpriced ánd over engineered 50cc scoot) was also utter trash.
Every owner knows this, and every owner will at one time replace those parts, if not due to an unsafe road feel, because the dang thing leaks oil and Honda ask premium money for spare parts.
For a fraction of the money there are famous Taiwanese aftermarket shocks that are know in the community...and after 8 years mine still look and work like new.


Believe me when I tell you the suspension on the new Monkey isn't confident inspiring, to say the least.
I could tell from my first impression, those front shocks are as bad as those on a stock Zoomer.
In fact, its the first thing I noticed when riding and stopping.
And when talking to the owner I can only imagine what its like to ride this 'toy' in the rain and having to brake hard with lousy tires like the ones installed on it.
Sure, who cares if you only ride it in summer around your block

Have you even ridden a stock Ruckus or Monkey?
I think not.

Amazing on a board wich, I thought, values Honda so high because of the famous quality.
But when it concerns 'toy bikes' its not that important anymore.

So wich suspension and tires you ask? BETTER ONES!
Based on the price Honda asks for a front shock on a 50cc Zoomer/Ruckus: 170 euro...a piece
The single rear shock: 160 euro.

And for the Monkey? I researched....
Honda charges 230 euro for each front shock.
And 100 euro for each rear shock.
Thats 460 for the front and 200 for the rear....To be honest, at the price point Honda is selling these, they should've equiped that bike with some overkill quality suspension parts from Öhlin
Wich btw are availabe as after market parts...
https://www.japan-webike.be/products/23892437.html
https://www.japan-webike.be/products/23892446.html
Yeah, 550 euro's for a set of fully adjustable Öhlin rear suspension,
219 for an upgrade kit from Öhlin for the front shocks.
You're crazy you say?!

Well, suddenly fully adjustable (compression, damping, length) Öhlins don't seem so crazy anymore when looking at the OEM parts proces for crappy quality...

Tires?
Michelin Pure Sports.


Of course there are way cheaper aftermarket parts, which still are waaaay better than OEM, just to say honda could have done much better than this.

Bottom line, drop the price and keep the lousy parts, or give us at least quality parts if you ask premium prices.

It's not like anyone is going to be touring or road racing on one of these. They are an adult toy for tearing up the neighborhood. What quality of tires and suspension do you need for that?

If the Grom forum is any indication...much higher.

There’s a whole segment of Grom riders that appear to want to turn the bike into a high performance machine.

The same thing will likely happen with the Monkey.

If the Grom forum is any indication...much higher.

There’s a whole segment of Grom riders that appear to want to turn the bike into a high performance machine.

The same thing will likely happen with the Monkey. True!

and I was only talking about suspension parts.

The engine is what it is of course, 125cc.
There are kits to soup it up to 181, but dunno what it'll do to the reliability.

But suspension is cheaper to upgrade than an engine and the result is much clearer too.

Going from utter poop suspension to something descent can be felt directly.
Spending a fortune to win 5hp or something is...well, to each his own

I'm guessing though in total numbers, those that get complete suspension make overs are a very small percentage. Bet there will be even less so on the Monkey bike.

Nope, for reasons I said above.

Die hards will do a complete overhaul and basically only keep the chassis lol.

Basic upgrades by the majority of owners will effectively be suspension upgrades.

I see it on every Zoomer owner I know, and on every board I follow.

Recently I joined all major Monkey groups on facebook, guess whats the first drastic upgrade new owners take?
New (rear) suspension.
As parts become available you'll also see front suspension either being replaced or upgraded.
Royal Jordanian, not unknown in the vlogger community has a Monkey, and I quote him (about the stock tires):

'these things are deadly'
'anybody who gets them, should dump those tires instantly'
'they are not rubber, but plastic'

from 7:55

[MM300_imp]

Riko, I know that you were addressing the Ferret here but I wanted to comment.

It's not like anyone is going to be touring or road racing on one of these. They are an adult toy for tearing up the neighborhood. What quality of tires and suspension do you need for that?

Do you need to tour or road race to suffer from an unsafe under spec-ed suspension?

All of a sudden high expectations are of no concern when spending 4000 euro on a 'adult toy'?
Sorry but I disagree on that.
When something is homologated for the public road one should expect a certain level of quality.

I dunno in the States, but in small dense cities like where I live, small bikes and scooters are an ideal means of transport for short communting, while a 'toy' to you, we tend to combine the fun aspect with practical use as well.
This is why I have my 50cc Zoomer and was potentially looking into this Monkey.

And like I said, the whole suspension of the Zoomer/Ruckus, (wich btw also was an overpriced ánd over engineered 50cc scoot) was also utter trash.
Every owner knows this, and every owner will at one time replace those parts, if not due to an unsafe road feel, because the dang thing leaks oil and Honda ask premium money for spare parts.
For a fraction of the money there are famous Taiwanese aftermarket shocks that are know in the community...and after 8 years mine still look and work like new.


Believe me when I tell you the suspension on the new Monkey isn't confident inspiring, to say the least.
I could tell from my first impression, those front shocks are as bad as those on a stock Zoomer.
In fact, its the first thing I noticed when riding and stopping.
And when talking to the owner I can only imagine what its like to ride this 'toy' in the rain and having to brake hard with lousy tires like the ones installed on it.
Sure, who cares if you only ride it in summer around your block

Have you even ridden a stock Ruckus or Monkey?
I think not.

Amazing on a board wich, I thought, values Honda so high because of the famous quality.
But when it concerns 'toy bikes' its not that important anymore.

So wich suspension and tires you ask? BETTER ONES!
Based on the price Honda asks for a front shock on a 50cc Zoomer/Ruckus: 170 euro...a piece
The single rear shock: 160 euro.

And for the Monkey? I researched....
Honda charges 230 euro for each front shock.
And 100 euro for each rear shock.
Thats 460 for the front and 200 for the rear....To be honest, at the price point Honda is selling these, they should've equiped that bike with some overkill quality suspension parts from Öhlin
Wich btw are availabe as after market parts...
https://www.japan-webike.be/products/23892437.html
https://www.japan-webike.be/products/23892446.html
Yeah, 550 euro's for a set of fully adjustable Öhlin rear suspension,
219 for an upgrade kit from Öhlin for the front shocks.
You're crazy you say?!

Well, suddenly fully adjustable (compression, damping, length) Öhlins don't seem so crazy anymore when looking at the OEM parts proces for crappy quality...

Tires?
Michelin Pure Sports.


Of course there are way cheaper aftermarket parts, which still are waaaay better than OEM, just to say honda could have done much better than this.

Bottom line, drop the price and keep the lousy parts, or give us at least quality parts if you ask premium prices.

It's not like anyone is going to be touring or road racing on one of these. They are an adult toy for tearing up the neighborhood. What quality of tires and suspension do you need for that?

If the Grom forum is any indication...much higher.

There’s a whole segment of Grom riders that appear to want to turn the bike into a high performance machine.

The same thing will likely happen with the Monkey.

If the Grom forum is any indication...much higher.

There’s a whole segment of Grom riders that appear to want to turn the bike into a high performance machine.

The same thing will likely happen with the Monkey. True!

and I was only talking about suspension parts.

The engine is what it is of course, 125cc.
There are kits to soup it up to 181, but dunno what it'll do to the reliability.

But suspension is cheaper to upgrade than an engine and the result is much clearer too.

Going from utter poop suspension to something descent can be felt directly.
Spending a fortune to win 5hp or something is...well, to each his own

I'm guessing though in total numbers, those that get complete suspension make overs are a very small percentage. Bet there will be even less so on the Monkey bike.

Nope, for reasons I said above.

Die hards will do a complete overhaul and basically only keep the chassis lol.

Basic upgrades by the majority of owners will effectively be suspension upgrades.

I see it on every Zoomer owner I know, and on every board I follow.

Recently I joined all major Monkey groups on facebook, guess whats the first drastic upgrade new owners take?
New (rear) suspension.
As parts become available you'll also see front suspension either being replaced or upgraded.
Royal Jordanian, not unknown in the vlogger community has a Monkey, and I quote him (about the stock tires):

'these things are deadly'
'anybody who gets them, should dump those tires instantly'
'they are not rubber, but plastic'

from 7:55

For me, yes to both. I owned the original Ruckus/Zoomer in 2004. I had the scoot for a year. Stock top speed was 39 mph. I loved it but I’m never one to mod a bike. I know that many do and that’s cool. I commuted the bike to my job at the cycle shop almost every day. Did a ton of riding just for fun as well. I took the bike for what it was because I was determined to find a way to use the bike stock to go wherever I needed to go, and I did. That was all the fun of owning it. While there was a lot of room for improvement on the Ruckus I just kept it stock.

My CB is still bone stock after nearly 5 years.

As far as the Monkey, I got to ride one last week. I weigh 145 lbs and had no issue with the suspension under normal riding conditions. There was no wallowing like the Grom. The stock tires were a different story. They seem to be a compromise between street and off road. A mildly aggressive steering input was met with a bit of a slide. The bike overall is a beauty as is but I’d put street tires on it as soon as the stock tires needed replacement.

Loved the Monkey. Awesome.

[the Ferret]

I have not ridden a Grom or a Monkey but I have ridden Z50's, CT 70's, CA 100's, Ca 105's CL 70's and lord knows a zillion other small displacement cheaply suspended small motorcycles from Honda (and others) in the 17 years I was in the motorcycle business.

Are these guys (in the attached videos) riding on the dangerous tires and lousy suspension? Because neither one complained about either the tires, traction or suspension. They did complain about the rear brakes, and the first one complained about the clutch, but they both seemed to ride them pretty hard on the straights and in the corners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrYs9jN9EdM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5nFBNPKqpU

Look, I don't doubt that some people will upgrade the suspension. There are people that complain about and upgrade the suspension on practically every bike made (including the CB 1100), but I doubt the Monkeys (or Groms) are truly dangerous as delivered from Honda. I guess if we start seeing class action lawsuits from people dying in fiery crashes while on Monkey bikes then I will have been proven wrong.

Been wrong before, and will be wrong in the future too, I suppose.

[GoldOxide_imp]

I have not ridden a Grom or a Monkey but I have ridden Z50's, CT 70's, CA 100's, Ca 105's CL 70's and lord knows a zillion other small displacement cheaply suspended small motorcycles from Honda (and others) in the 17 years I was in the motorcycle business.

Are these guys (in the attached videos) riding on the dangerous tires and lousy suspension? Because neither one complained about either the tires, traction or suspension. They did complain about the rear brakes, and the first one complained about the clutch, but they both seemed to ride them pretty hard on the straights and in the corners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrYs9jN9EdM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5nFBNPKqpU

Look, I don't doubt that some people will upgrade the suspension. There are people that complain about and upgrade the suspension on practically every bike made (including the CB 1100), but I doubt the Monkeys (or Groms) are truly dangerous as delivered from Honda. I guess if we start seeing class action lawsuits from people dying in fiery crashes while on Monkey bikes then I will have been proven wrong.

Been wrong before, and will be wrong in the future too, I suppose.

Videos make me want.