Design Disadvantages of the CB1100

[the Ferret]

Color me pessimistic, but I don't see you (Chris) being happy with a CB 1100 . Just a feeling. You come in being an acknowledged " card carrying Honda Hater" (see I did read every word of your valve adjustment procedure). You say you want to trade in an EX500 which is rather a milquetoast motorcycle ( but maybe a perfectly fine motorcycle, dont know, never ridden one) but you keep comparing the CB to your "mighty ZX9R " .

The CB is not going to compare to the ZX9. It was never designed to. The CB is designed specifically for the "smile on your face/sunny day sentimentality ". That is what the motorcycle is all about. Honda has built other models for other purposes with lighter stronger frames, sharper handling, physically smaller but more potent motors like the CBR1100XX Blackbird, or CBR1100RR but this bike was built rather heavy, rather slow, not very technically advanced, but in a style designed to appeal to those who impressed enough to own the original inline 4 Hondas, or those who were too young but wanted too. There are what some would observe as flaws in this motorcycle. Plastic used in the tail light assembly, engine covers, and headlight lens. A relatively short service span for valve adjustments, probably ball bearings in the steering head, and probably plastic or resin swing arm bushings if I were guessing. Steel frame, 8500 rpm redline, narrow tires and rims, and speed limited to 112 mph. Barely adjustable built to a price point suspension. Its got a lousy tool kit. It's heavy, it's slow and it costs a lot of money.

It's great that your ZX9 will "still hit an actual 100 mph in first gear" or that "it has a brutal hit at 9000 that still scares you on public highways", but the CB is never going to compete with that. Was never intended to. You seem to be hung up on a performance standard that the CB is never going to match.

There are any number of motorcycles that would seem to me to be more appealing to you... The Kawasaki Versys or 650 Ninja, the Suzuki SV 650 or maybe the new Yamaha FZ-09. Plus Honda makes some very nice, if not very exciting, NC 700 series of bikes for thousands less that would compare more directly to your current dog sled.

I'm confused, you don't seem old enough to want a CB for nostalgic reasons, you admittedly don't like Hondas, you obviously like to explore the outer limits of speed and handling on public highways, you seem bright and intelligent, and you are obviously mechanically gifted... Why are you even considering a CB 1100?

[redbirds_imp]

I'm in agreement with Ferret on this. I bought the CB1100 because it has the character that fits my riding style. What are considered shortcomings by some (usually younger riders) are virtues to me. Having owned many bikes with shim under bucket adjusters, in my experience they seldom need adjustment in a bike that is not ridden hard, read bounced off the rev limiter at every opportunity. And checking clearances on the CB looks to be quite simple. When I started riding in the 60's a motorcycle with over 80HP would be thought too powerful for mere mortals to ride. The CB1100 has far more power and speed potential than can be used legally on any public road and very few riders have the skills to ride this bike at it's full potential.

I would suggest a Triumph Speed Triple or the new Yamaha FZ-09. The Yamaha has so much potential and it's low entry price leaves much room for performance enhancements and a good bike for you Chris with your mechanical talents and intelligence.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

[Dakota_imp]

I thought that this would be an interesting thread titled "design..." yet there is not one bit of discussion on the actual bike engineering design. Three pages of nothing but meandering anecdotal blah blah blah.

[the Ferret]

Sorry Dakota, answered the best I could seeing as how I am not an engineer by trade. I talked about wheels, frame, suspension, steering head, swing arm, horsepower, torque, inherent strength, weaknesses and smoothness of an I-4 engine, valve layout, materials used ......

Others spoke to valve and cam timing

This is a very common platform that has been around for 45 years. The only trick thing Honda did with this bike is the thin cooling fins which are supposed to make a tinking sound when cooling down, and putting oil passages around the spark plugs to cool that area of the head. Other than that this bike was pretty much built in 1969, or at least 1979 with the first dohc motors.

Maybe you would like to start us off with some design engineering disadvantages advice that would help Chris.

[Ack-CB11_imp]

I bought it for looks alone, then changed it completely..........Twice?

[Inline4_imp]

I bought it for looks alone, then changed it completely..........Twice?

I LOVE IT, too!!!!!

[The Spaceman_imp]

Here's my list of design failings of the CB:

1. It's air-cooled. What were they thinking? It's so much easier to control engine heat, and thus provide more power for comparable displacements, with water-cooling.

2. There's no fairing. Riders are exposed to the elements, including wind-blast, rain, and cold. A large, modern fairing would not only resolve those issues, but would also provide a location to install features such as "Infotainment" systems, GPS, satellite TV, etc.

3. No luggage. Where the heck are you supposed to put your hair dryer if you take a road trip? A large top case and side-bags would go a long way here.

4. Chain drive. Are you kidding me? A shaft drive would be quieter, cleaner, and virtually zero maintenance. CB buyers are stuck with cleaning and lubricating chains for the life of the motorcycle.

5. I-4 engine layout. This engine design is simply outdated. A V-4 or horizontally opposed 6 cylinder engine would produce more power and fewer vibrations.

6. Single headlight. Two headlights would provide better visibility for both the rider and surrounding traffic. Shame on Honda for not investing a few dollars more here.

[Deanohh_imp]

I thought that this would be an interesting thread titled "design..." yet there is not one bit of discussion on the actual bike engineering design. Three pages of nothing but meandering anecdotal blah blah blah.

The thread title probably could have been better. Why don't you start a discussion on what you want to discuss?

[redbirds_imp]

Here's my list of design failings of the CB:

1. It's air-cooled. What were they thinking? It's so much easier to control engine heat, and thus provide more power for comparable displacements, with water-cooling.

2. There's no fairing. Riders are exposed to the elements, including wind-blast, rain, and cold. A large, modern fairing would not only resolve those issues, but would also provide a location to install features such as "Infotainment" systems, GPS, satellite TV, etc.

3. No luggage. Where the heck are you supposed to put your hair dryer if you take a road trip? A large top case and side-bags would go a long way here.

4. Chain drive. Are you kidding me? A shaft drive would be quieter, cleaner, and virtually zero maintenance. CB buyers are stuck with cleaning and lubricating chains for the life of the motorcycle.

5. I-4 engine layout. This engine design is simply outdated. A V-4 or horizontally opposed 6 cylinder engine would produce more power and fewer vibrations.

6. Single headlight. Two headlights would provide better visibility for both the rider and surrounding traffic. Shame on Honda for not investing a few dollars more here.

[Deanohh_imp]

I never get a tinking sound when I shut it off. If that's a design objective, their engineering fell short.